The Bible and Astrology - Discussions, questions

Waybread FOWL-- this is a great topic.

I think the key is to look at the Bible historically and as a work of literature, whatever else it might be.

The Bible itself actually has very few proscriptions against astrology. It condemns prognostication (false prophecy) and divination in a general way, but specifics against "star-gazers" or Chaldeans (a sub-group of Babylonians most associated with astrology,) are very few.

What the Bible condemns strenuously is worshipping other gods: the First Commandment. The concept of star-worshippers makes little sense today, but anciently the Mesopotamians believed that planets were actual gods, and they did worship them. So the spiritual danger for the Israelites was in worshipping these planetary gods.

The main critique of astrology is in Isaiah 47:13-15. Here the problem with astrologers is that they may predict the future but they are powerless to save themselves or anybody else from it.

Essentially, a God who can create the universe can change it at will; and only He can choose to save people from impending destruction.

The authors of most of the Old Testament lived long before the development of the horoscope. The Babylonians practiced a kind of "whole sky astrology," that was mostly what we would call mundane astrology-- concerned with king and country. Horoscope interpretation for individual personality assessment probably dates from around the 2nd century BCE. It is not prohibited in the Bible.

The Israelites don´t seem to have equated God with Saturn, although some Greek and Latin authors said they did. Baal was a Canaanite rain god. Jesus has solar attributes but is more notably a crop god who dies and is reborn.

As a work of literature, the Bible has some beautiful verses about stars, such as in the Book of Job, cited above. Ancient people used the heavens as a giant celestial calendar and clock.

Of course, some Christian leaders did condemn and prohibit astrology, long after the Bible was codified.

FOWL » Waybread Great info! Thanks Bread!

I would agree with the Greek and Latin Authors however. Jehova bears MANY similarities to Saturn overall, his demands for sacrifice, be it time, animal, or human are extremely Saturnian. The obsession with lineage is extremely Saturnian. The sabbath was on Saturn Day, while the Christians celebrated Sunday...

Waybread » FOWL Hey, thanks.

The Saturn association is not intrinsic to Judaism, but was a gloss (or surmise) by non-Jewish authors.

For one thing, the Jewish sabbath starts on Friday at sundown, and ends on Saturday after sundown. In northern latitudes in winter, we´re talking about a large chunk of Friday and a truncated Saturday.

Saturday is not the Jewish term. Depending upon the dialect, it is called Shabbat or Shabbos, like our word Sabbath. Other days are basically called by their number in the order of the week. The portion of Friday before the sabbath is called Yom Shishi, or 6th day. Sunday is Yom Rishon, the first day heading up the week.

Note that the Sabbath was declared to be the 7th day of rest.

Also, the Jewish God has many ascriptions that do not pertain to Kronos/Saturn. Names like the master and creator of the universe, or the divine consciousness that preceded the Creation. The god Saturn was the son of Uranus, and was not seen as a universal creator god. The Jewish God is anthropomorphized to some extent, but it was forbidden to make idols representing God, which was the opposite of Greek and Roman worship.

All kinds of gods in the ancient world "demanded" temple sacrifices; or at least worshippers gave them sacrifices in various festivals and petitionary prayers. Some ancient cultures practiced human sacrifice, like the Phoenicians. This was not a Jewish practice (cf. the Binding of Isaac.) Sacrificial practices in the Greek and Roman worlds pertained to all of their major gods.

FOWL » Waybread Great points... of course over time the gods all shift and sway. Trying to track one deity over time in any system can make the head swoon. I think there are significant elements of similarity to at least say he is has a strong Saturnian presence at the very least... definitely not a one to one analog.

Waybread » FOWL I think that´s a Christian (or post-Christian) interpretation. The idea that Judaism has a God of laws and Christianity has a God of love and mercy, for example. Religious Jews, in contrast, see God as exhibiting law-giving as well as love and mercury.

Anyway, I´ve been studying some of these themes for a few decades. That doesn´t necessarily make me correct, but it does cut down on the swoon factor.

FOWL » Waybread Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. I truly and deeply appreciate it.

Opal E » Waybread It seems to me that those considerations are actually the same in both religions. They both follow the laws of, and they both seek mercy and forgiveness for their sins.

I have heard the same sentiment in the Islamic faith.

Mercy, love, laws. One common denominator. Religion.

Oh my stars Waybread, you changed your Avatar!

Opal E https://www.deseret.com/2015/3/…

5 major religions and their choice and why of Worshiping Sabbath.

spung A crazy?? video I just came accross, about how the bible is a compilation of Emerald tablets. Hmmm.
Anyone been investigating it closer?

Nofarmaimon08 I am Jewish, living in Israel.
תורה and astrology have a connection from Abraham (אברהם) our father.

Nofarmaimon08 "ויאמר אלהים יהי מארת ברקיע השמים להבדיל בין היום ובין הלילה והיו לאתות ולמועדים ולימים ושנים". רש"י כותב: "והיו לאתות" - "כשהמאורות לוקין סימן רע הוא לעולם. (הכוונה לליקוי חמה או לבנה) (אבל) "בעשותכם רצון הקב"ה אין אתם צריכים לדאוג מן הפורענות".


אלהים שולח את אברהם (בראשית ט"ו): "הבט נא השמימה וספור הכוכבים, אם תוכל לספור אותם... כה יהיה זרעך", בתלמוד במסכת שבת קנ"ו אמר אברהם: "נסתכלתי באיצטגננות שלי ואיני ראוי להוליד בן". אמר לו הקב"ה: "צא מאיצטגנינות שלך, שאין מזל לישראל. מה דעתך שצדק עומד במערב והריני לוקח אותו ומעמידו במיזרח". אברהם אבינו, איצטגננות היתה בליבו, ובקיא היה בהלכות המזלות ובדקדוק תחילת השעות וכו´, ומלכי מזרח ומערב היו משכימים לשאול אותו במזלות (מסכת יומא כ"ח). בשירת דבורה אנו מוצאים: "הכוכבים ממסילותם נלחמו בסיסרא" (שופטים ה´ פסוק 20).

the story regarding astrology: Those who practice and know the theory of astrology, understand how accurate it is in the data about Jupiter and Saturn, about their character and strength. And it was only one house among other houses in each of which he sang praises to the power of the Creator of the world, who, among his other great deeds, established the various stars, their meaning and destiny.
It can be said that the polemics on the subject of astrology are, in fact, between those who think that the star system is a doctrine that stands on its own and thus causes people to believe in other forces, which are not on us, may fail man, and between those who think that knowing the times and calculating the times is a recognition of the power of the Almighty God and in fact God for understanding the universe, as Avraham Ibn Ezra wrote, "the comprehensive and comprehensive divine plan".
It is found in Genesis and not a verse you wrote ---זה נמצא בבראשית ולא פסוק שכתבת
Just for general knowledge, everything that is translated into Hebrew, never comes out correctly. Because in Hebrew it is very difficult to understand the writing (from the Torah/תורה)

Opal E » Waybread Nice to see you here too! I have a book on The Bible and Astronomy. It´s by Joan Andre Moore. I think you would like it.

I get the avatar thing, lots computer stuff just don´t work. Mercury suits you.

Waybread » Nofarmaimon08 Nofarmaimon08,

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

As you know there is a Jewish tradition that Abraham was the founder of astrology. It´s in Josephus, possibly in a Midrash, I´m not sure. But the Bible attributes to Abraham the quote, "My father was a wandering Aramaean..." Aram being a region northeast of Israel, worshipping the same planetary gods as the Mesopotamians and Assyrians.