Split ascendant/dual behaviours/appearance - Discussions, questions

Etherealmind I would say the same for me.

Even if I have a Virgo Sun I don´t recognize myself a lot in this sign, only in some stuffs like being meticulous, organised, analytical, seeing stuffs with many details, a bit discreet too but except these facts, I´m not so Virgo. I was much more Virgo when I was younger, really.

Also, I only have one planet in this sign.

My Ascendant is in Sagittarius and my Sun is in the 9th house so it amplifies the dualism. I also have my ASC conjunct Pluto so it gives some caracteristics to my ascendant too ... In any case, I know my personality has a real dualism and sometimes people get surprised when they know me more.

Regarding the elements, I´m half fire half earth so it also confirms the previous facts.

IIyyaarr13 I´ve been told I am a Venusian type of the which I suppose is better than Venereal!
Celeb with a slavic spelling only here, Allessandra Ferri has the sides of the Ascendant near & like I do, very intelligent personalities! The Ascendant is too big to split; It´s Chimeric or Quimera!

Dev11 "...often wants to be quieter and more detached and observe in a more relaxed way and doesn´t desire much attention, although sometimes being upbeat..." Kinda sounds like you´re describing your Virgo Moon with a mars conjunction. Your Moon, Mars, and Venus are all ruled by Mercury in moody cancer. Dual/split is characteristic of Mercury and the signs it rules. I might expect someone with a chart like yours to express themselves in as many ways as they have moods. I imagine that flexibility lends to a lot of success in career and networking endeavors.

Myself, I have a Scorpio AC and a Libra moon. I can come off as intense or provocative, but I´m actually a fairly balanced and peaceful person. But it depends a lot on my situation what part of my chart tends to express itself louder. If it´s a contest, my Aries Mars will make damn sure to be the loudest, embarrassing my libra moon but making my 10h Virgo Sun and Leo Venus is quietly proud of the success lol.

sprag possible if mental illness is involved.

Astro-Seek.com » Anna239 System message: Post has been written by user Fool, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
I guess I identify with my rising but Neptune in there softens the placement (Asc apex of t-square). However, by Draconic (discovered yesterday) I am a Virgo rising - can´t really parse that; by Sidereal I am Libra rising - don´t get that either. Interestingly I now sport a Cancer Asc (don´t wanna talk about it ) because of relocation. There´s me thinking I was showing-off a Leo Asc on this site then again can you tell anyone´s rising sign from posted texts? So many masks!


to whoever, we ask questions so that we may learn.

Anna239 » Dev11 You could be right there! 😂 as I have thought that my moon does seem to control a lot of what I do/feel etc. So it could be my moon and mars possibly make me more withdrawn and wanting to analyze from a safe distance and often detach for sanities sake, as perhaps I feel anxious in discordant situxations but then because of Venus in gemini I often want to communicate And yes what with being conjunct my mercury in Cancer
.. I have felt actually that these are my two most domiant signs. And yes I can be moody, but also I think that my moon controls a lot of that too so it doesn´t get out of hand. If it was just up to my mercury then perhaps I would be moody all the time Alas though regardless of this cap on cancer emotions I feel that all the mercury gives me anxiety instead! Haha
Well not all of the time but still..
Although often I am extremely relaxed and usually with other people

I also get what you mean about the moon being embarrassed

But also I think because of my Venus in gemini I often want to be more involved and communicate to learn something about people and maybe because of my sun also to be more engaged. I think the libran influence is also there though but not quite sure how it manifests precisely, if this adds to the quietness and introspection or a bubbliness
I definitely think that "most" of the time I come across as cool and collected and balanced, but that probably depends on the situation and context, I can be a bit hyper more often when I´m by myself though I think that as a libra ascendant I try to be relaxed as much as possible, but I also don´t reveal the moodiness as the moon forbids!!!

Dev11 » Anna239 With Mercury ruling your Venus, Moon, and Mars, and your Mercury Being ruled by the moon in return, that does seem to be the biggest focus of your chart. Seems you talk about feelings and emotions quite a bit! Your moon/mars in the 12h explains why you feel more active in private. The rest of the time I can imagine you´re very contained/grounded in your emotional expression, even if you feel things very strongly, you keep that to yourself and express yourself in as balanced of a manner as you can. With 10h Mercury (and Sun), you´re probably extra careful of how you behave and what you communicate reflects on you.

Wanting to be involved, communicate, and learn sounds pretty 9h Gemini Venus to me. Your DC is in Aries, so putting that attention on individuals makes sense. 9h Venus LOVES to learn, at least mine does lol. Gemini is kind of the student of the Zodiac, though Virgo does well at it too. I´m guessing you place a great deal of value (Venus) in communication (Gemini) and education (9h). Furthermore, Venus/Gemini probably gives you a very pleasant voice or style of communication. Mercury/Cancer also probably makes you very caring in your communication, especially as Libra hates ruffling feathers lol.

Anna239 » Dev11 Ohh yes the control... is sometimes more then I can end up objectively justifying. Because I also have my third house in sag and my sun in Leo, so I think this means I value free expression and want to be direct and not mess up the communication of whatever message I´m trying to communicate by counter-intuitive niceties although they must still be observed. Also though I don´t think I´m blunt about it, having a fair bit of air influence may give me a more impartial delivery, even if I care more then whatever I appear like, but also often i look like I care more then i do too Having the moon in Virgo but in the 12th house (+conjunct cancer mercury) is a bit of a funny thing, where I think that I don´t quite always know when I am emotional, or I suppress quite a lot depending entirely on the situation and how open I feel I can rightly be. It´s true that I also value being grounded but sometimes this seems to conflict with other "sentiments/desires" that say I shouldn´t be like this, or only to an extent

Regardless of the said control I am not sure if I always know how I appear to others entirely as I think I have somewhat contradictory motivations. I want to appear interested and engaged, because often I am, but also not over the top, although also I think I would rather have complete self expression without thinking about surprising people in a possibly negative way. Maybe I would like to be morw dramatic more often without people either taking it seriously or thinking I´m being pretentious. And then of course there are other issues.. Basically often I suppose I am not as open as I would like to be, even if I often seem that I am

What about you, your a Virgo, so you have any of these "virgo" issues?- anxiety, inhibition, being withdrawn

Also I have noticed that Scorpios/particularly the risings are pretty dual in their appearance. Like you guys can seem really broody and detached and then suddenly curious and intense right?

Dev11 » Anna239 So what I´m getting is highly expressive, but not without Libra poise and Virgo etiquette haha! Libra rising seems pretty concerned with how they come off to others. Not necessarily in a self-absorbed, need to be like sort of way. But more out of concern for balance and having your message well received, such as you might see in a lawyer or politician. ESPECIALLY with Jupiter on your AC. Public speaking is probably a talent you have. Virgos make good actors, and Leo loves that limelight too, so there´s another potential. Back to the topic of split/dual behavior in ascendants, the "two-faced politician" comes to mind haha no offense. :P

As a Virgo, yes. Reading anxiety, inhibition, and being withdrawn, my shoulders dropped as if I had been exposed haha! Yes, that´s normal life for me. Being sensitive, a little stimulation can feel like a lot. I´m prone to overanalyzing things and getting a bit stuck in my mind, sometimes being unsure of how to approach a situation leads to holding back a lot.

I´d say you´re pretty spot on with Scorpio risings. Black and white or polarizing is a good way to put it. Brooding, detached, stand-offish, minding my own business is kind of the base line. I mostly prefer to be left alone, so I tend to give off an aura that makes me a bit intimidating to approach. It´s hard to notice your own AC since it´s what OTHER people see, so it actually took me quite a while to even realize I do this lol. Partly because I´m actually pretty sensitive and don´t openly welcome people into my bubble. On the other hand, warm, friendly, passionate, intensely curious and interested in others, and rather intimate would be the other side of that coin. Highly focused, but maybe on something other than the present company/situation.

Anna239 » Dev11 Hahahaha don´t worry it comes to mind for me too... and yet I would never mean to come across as "two faced" I just have conflicted desires/modes of expression. No.. I don´t really like the spotlight, I tried acting, couldn´t even do it lol also I felt that I was being somehow disingenuous.. because it didn´t come naturally to fake it in front of people, the emotion for attention in a articial environment. I suppose that is my moon trumping my sun and Venus ha

Ahh yeah but at least you don´t have mercury in Virgo, I have imagined what this would be like.. Having mercury conjunct a planet in Virgo is enough, although I have realised how much my moon must dominate me/or cancer mercury, I actually think that they are very similar signs anyway so it´s difficult to distinguish them.

I think I get the vibe of that ascendant, I also don´t engage readily with people and may be seen "brooding" by myself or sometimes it may just be reflecting/thinking as you say too much. But also as you said before you have Venus in the 9th too so that may be what you are doing as well when you just look like you are brooding! 😂
How´s your libra moon + mercury work for you? In regards to thinking and feeling? Also I have heard that you libra moon guys can have a bit of social anxiety. I also have but I don´t know if it was/is the usual, most common sort. But the moon in Virgo in the 12th house doesn´t like to reveal it´s secrets to itself like that lol.. I often feel detached and that is where I think the anxiety mainly comes from

Also to add aspects to the picture, do you think that your asc sextile your sun and trine your node are apparent? I am not sure if I can begin to adequately say about my aspects to my ascendant as there are too many and I wonder as such if they are counter intuitive..

Dev11 » Anna239 Very critical of the thespian role I see haha! Not that I have any experience in theater, but that sounds like a very typical first impression. You´re literally synthesizing emotion and playing make-believe to entertain an audience. Or yourself if nobody is watching lol! But if that were immediately natural and comfortable for you to be disingenuous for the sake of attention, I would have bad news for you. :P

Mercury conjunct something in Virgo might be like putting a magnifying glass on a magnifying glass lol.

Brooding may indeed be what it looks like on the outside. That thousand mile stare at whatever 9h Venus is interested in at the moment.

Now that you mention it, I can confuse cancer and Virgo a bit too with my Mercury/Moon conjunction. I would say that aspect is a lot like having cancer in Mercury actually! I feel like it gives me an above average memory, a sensitivity for words, an ability to communicate with/understand women and emotional people. My face tends to be a lot more expressive than I realize. People can often tell exactly what I´m thinking or feeling according to my expressions lol.

I always read about Libra Moons being all socially graceful, but I think I related to the social anxiety more lol! I can often stress over social situations. The more people, the worse it is. I suppose that makes sense though! I always attributed my social anxiety to my Virgo placements. Or maybe my Sun/Saturn square. It might have something to do with the fact that my Mercury is relatively unaspected. Hmm...

Aspects to my nodes and AC are ones I´ve overlooked until recently. But I guess it gives me a bit of extra talent when it comes to influencing others. I was once told that about the quintiles to my Mercury, but the AC aspects make a lot of sense too. I can generally come up with ideas that people like and are happy to go along with. I can adjust my personality to suit my needs. I feel like I have a knack for helping point people in the direction they need to go. I see you have a similar aspect, except your sun is quintile instead of sextile, which might be a little extra lucky.

What about your mars/moon conjunction? Do you ever feel like an Aries moon? Mars seems pretty contained by the moon and 12h though. Maybe you have a fondness for more spiritual kinds of exercise like yoga? I imagine going to a gym to pump iron in front of a mirror isn´t your thing, even if you do enjoy being physically active.

Anna239 » Dev11 I could see it being a Virgo thing yes.., because we are meant to be all about pleasing people, having Virgo placements, but also I think that libra desires to go beyond that and connect and communicate "well", so sometimes it´s disappointing or stressful to be trying knowing it won´t always work as such and it could be on a very personal level if it´s your moon. Actually though I think the thing about Virgo instead is that it takes it less personally and then is like "ok, right what did I do"? Of course the answer may not produce itself which also annoys us 😁 well I don´t know perhaps you could even do both of these things. I think alternating we all do at some point

I think that libra is another sign that is quite similar to cancer in many ways, so I´d say just by having your mercury in libra you would be sensitive, observant and intellectual in your thinking. As for my mercury in cancer it´s more about picking things up intuitively, however Virgo likes the details and logic of course.. so I don´t know which I am meant to prefer. Scorpio also though I think is meant to combine intuitive and investigative logic right?

Oh I haven´t really looked into quintiles much, is it really meant to create more significance in a aspect?

An Aries Moon, nope, no no.. although technically I am a Hades moon, and the 12th house is ruled by Pisces.. although my mars is in Virgo too, which I think reasonably changes a fair bit of what would be the expression of this placement.
I think that the Moon and mars in the 12th is more about finding some sort of clarity by isolation/separation lol, at first I was like.. "right, makes sense", then "aww maybe not" and now I can more sober mindedly think how it´s not a bad thing if it´s true. I think that it´s about learning to do everything independently, even things that you thought you may have some actual physical support from or grounding in the physical world. Oddly becoming more physically present past this point may be a good thing as well though.

Dev11 » Anna239 Going back and forth is the Libra way, isn´t it? Libra moon gets pretty emotionally invested in relationships, so they are more likely to take it personally and be saddened by an upset in a relationship. Meanwhile Virgo Moon seems very practical (and straight forward with mars). If you get the details, you´re good lol. Sounds very easy to deal with, not passive aggressive at all. 😂

Your Mercury and Moon are in mutually receptive houses, so I think they´re meant to work together. Especially since the in a perfect sextile. There are several different ways to support that logic/emotion connection. You get yours through mutual rulerships, and I get mine through a conjunction. But all the stuff about being pleasing and concerned about how you come off to others feels like more of a Libra/Venus thing. And since you have Venus square your Moon in your other exact aspect in Gemini, and I have my conjunction ruled by Venus, that detail also becomes very difficult to separate. Both in the 9h. It´s interesting how many similarities there are despite being arranged completely different.

Quintiles are considered minor aspects. They have a max orb of 2°. There isn´t a lot out there on quintiles because of that. But any aspect is significant. If a planet has few aspects, then minor aspects will be more significant to it. But just having an aspect, even if it´s minor, gives the planets a connection they wouldn´t otherwise have. A minor influence, but still an influence if you´re into details.

I have Moon/Mars opposite, so the conjunction might be a bit more peculiar of a puzzle to me. I suppose I can see how being alone or independent might give you better emotional clarity. If you´re only exposed to your own emotions, they´re less complicated. When others are around you´re too preoccupied with them perhaps. I seem to work well with physical activity. Balancing my body tends to help balance my emotions.

IIyyaarr13 » Dev11 The Quintile has a kinship to the fifth house because it is "harmonic five" that is easy to get a whole chart here with free calculation. By the same reasoning the decile or vigintiles would have a kinship to the tenth house and would therefore lean more towards power rather than creativity!

nutelina You mean like a Gemini ascendant?

I think Asc. is pretty easy, your identity is literally like Gemini or Libra, that´s how you prefer to be or do things, act.

Sun is more the overarching ego, how you think you should be but in the end you don´t know why you like to mingle, socialize. Oh it´s because you are a Libra (asc.) The Sun would make you Kind socializer

Anna239 » Dev11 Haha I think I know what you mean about Virgo, once I have enough information I basically have decided and like to stick to whatever choice unless enough substantial information comes up to contradict the original decision. Whereas sorry but I would have to say that the libra moon I dated was veeery changeable.... liked to act very logical but I really wasn´t sure. Although I definitely can be indecisive over lesser issues when too much freedom of choice is involved and no clear option that is better

I don´t know, I have realised that I may unconsciously be filtering through my thoughts and actions even before I am doing them and aware on some level of "minor" unintentional contradictions..., well it´s because of what I said before about wanting to express myself freely but also stopping myself from what I think whoever I am interacting with will "particularly" dislike. At the same time I am not so upset when people don´t like me though, because if they are being judgy l feel that I gave little cause for them to be so closeminded and petty about little offences against what they just personally like, and maybe they are only friends with specific types of people (boring!!) Also so I´m aware that this occurs.. inadvertantly either way. And so I don´t know if I actively try to please people, but more gage what they are like which makes me at least feel free to act differently with different people but more openly with certain people. I have come to really dislike empty connections though

Yeah I have found some interesting commonalities between people with Venus in the 9th

Anna239 » nutelina Ha this is an interesting angle! I think that it may make sense in many ways... Although I had thought that moat people consider the sun to be the core of someone´s identity and consciousness. Well it is somewhat confusing for me to have two reasonably different signs on my ascendant. Although I think that libra is similar to gemini and actually very similar to Leo in other ways.

Do you think you seem more like a Cancer or a Taurus to others? In what ways do these signs contrast in behaviour etc?

nutelina » Anna239 First people think I am kind or charming but also avoiding or moody until they upset me And what I do with others is 11th house where my moon is, so yes I am trying to be supportive and helpful. Ascendant is always the 1st house so what is in your first house influences how you are, like having Mars in the 1st house makes you act a lot like Aries. Or Sun square ascendant makes me not being straightforward. Cancer rising makes me of course moody but approach people one step forward, two steps back or sideways. Like a crab dance!

Anna239 » nutelina Haha sorry I´m trying to think where the charming comes from? Cancer or Taurus, could be something else of course. Right so moody is pre-any event appearance. I think that ascendants are like this though, they are not the entire picture of how someone will act, in fact they kind of act like a screen even if they are a legitimate part of our personality/social approach and then bam! People get surprised (and you just smirk in amusement inwardly)
Do you think that your 11th house would have such a prominent effect if you didn´t have your moon there? Equally to you feel where your Venus is located has some effect?

Huh.. Yeah now I am having to really think if I do act like a Sag again.. I think I´m not as bombastic as they are supposed to be

Yes the crab dance! Perhaps I do this too but it´s also like a libra-gemini (air) thing too probably

nutelina » Anna239 Cancer, Taurus is not charming, they are shy. My first daughter is also Cancer rising the other Leo rising, very different energy. Cancer rising is emotional like Leo but more subtle and shy whereas Leo rising is definitely not shy, maybe insecure but a fighter and very fiery.

I´m not sure about Venus but my 11th house and my moon there, sure, I like to support people. Venus is more that I can appreciate beauty in science and people, for example I am interested in tribes and indigenous people.

Go look at how people are in real life, you will notice these quirky behaviours.

Dev11 » Anna239 I wonder how much earth and/or fixed signs that Libra moon had in their chart? Personally, I can flip flop a on decisions a lot while I weigh them out and analyze things from different angles, but once I make a decision I stick to it and am stubborn about changing my mind. I´m open to being convinced they make a good enough argument to convince me that there´s a better option, but I work very hard to convince myself for a lot of things, and others typically do I weigh things out with Virgo-like precision, ya know? I hate to feel like I didn´t make the best choice, but Scorpio AC follows through on commitments for better or worse. It can just be longer than average before I come to a decision on a commitment while I do the flippy floppy Libra vacillation thingy.

I think we all do a little filtering subconsciously. Cancers and Libras maybe more than others. I can take it a little harder when someone dislikes me if it feels unfair. It´s the unfairness that´s really upsetting. My Libra moon tries SO hard to be fair, when others aren´t fair it´s like the worst thing. If they don´t like me, but they´re fair about it, then I can still feel good, no problem. But it can drive me crazy if it´s over a misunderstanding or a shallow/narrow minded perception, especially if it´s someone who´s more than an acquaintance. Otherwise I just say "oops," try to do what´s fair, and move on with my life. I don´t mind mono-typical people, but too much time engaged with them is indeed boring. My Taurus DC actually finds some comfort/endearment in boring people though. Although simple is probably a better word. The reason being that everything else (myself included) is complicated/chaotic enough that it´s more of a relief than a drag.

Dev11 » IIyyaarr13 That´s really interesting! I haven´t learned how to interpret harmonic charts, but I´ve noticed that a fifth harmonic chart, quintiled planets are conjunct. Same with trines in 3rd harmonic, squares with 4th harmonic, etc.

What do you think is the most straight forward way to interpret placements/aspects in a harmonic chart? Would you say that a 5th harmonic chart is a direct representation of your character around 5th house things? Maybe a more inhibited looking chart would signify a less creative character?

IIyyaarr13 » Dev11 The Hindus will do 17 Harmonic Charts, each one is a new angle on what the subject is capable of. They are why the correct interpretation of "unaspected planet" is "highly doubtful!" There is a grim reality to the statement "Back to `1´" Very few people are currently rooting for newbies to simply shine in a higher harmonic, the World Census diverges by 200,000,000 as to how many humans are on the planet, the idea that someone could also be 17 other people doesn´t make the situation easier!

Anna239 » nutelina Ahaha Taurus is not charming... Yeah I think cancer risings are approachable until things start getting scary(jking)

I´m really interested in other people too but I think that´s mainly because of Venus in gemini in my 9th/third house in sag. As well the 12th in Virgo is meant to help people apparently.., well I don´t know precisely about this, I like interacting with animals more 😁 also I may have my sun in the 11th, but I am not understanding this placement yet either!

Anna239 » Dev11 Well I´m not sure as I don´t know his ascendant but he was a cancer and also born on the first day of the gemini-cancer cusp. I suspect he may have had a Pisces ascendant but it could also have been a earth one, probably Capricorn or Aquarius.(All guesses)
He was odd in that he seemed open-minded, emotional and intellectual but acted in a very flaky way as if he was unsure of what he should do then just suddenly stuck to a badly reasoned approach just because of "objectively selected logic" because he couldn´t rely on his own instinct

I think that sometimes making decisions is better, but yes not making the wrong ones when it actually kind of matters is important too. Which is why it´s better to not be so hasty or so rigid. So I don´t actually mind this aspect of our libra-ness

I think your right about cancers and libras, people say that we are like emotional sponges which I don´t think is true it´s just that we are really attuned to what is happening and picking up emotional cues etc that maybe we can get a little lost remembering what we are doing.
Oh god I know what you mean about fairness! (And lines crossed haha) I always seem to try so damn hard thinking about being fair and then other people are so nonchalant as if they are not even slightly bothered (or else they may be taking things personally inside and then putting on an act outside) well of course we cannot pick up on everything which is where I think libra-virgo gets irritated (mainly at ourselves) for the apparent lack of transparency/bad communication/the game played unfairly etc. But that´s when I can just tune out, like "ok, so no one is playing very nicely here.. I will just act more nonchalantly then all those b*tches " also I agree about not being liked, that´s not the worst thing, but when it is not even explained in words?? (Well this depends on who the person is/how well I know them) Just knowing the reason why they suddenly dislike me would be enough. I also hate the ambiguity of not knowing if I am or am not judging someone for presumably judging me?! Or not knowing if they are in fact a arse and I have complete clearance to think that

Hmm.. yes I think I know what you mean about "simple people", sometimes I would like to live amongst them but then realise that I may not fit in ☹ but often I do prefer them to the pseudo-intellectual trendy people I am exposed to