12 House- House of Bad Daimon

December 4, 2020 at 02:12 (UT/GMT)
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
12 House- House of Bad Daimon
In traditional astrology, the 12th house is, by far the worst house. It is called the house of Bad Spirit, κακοδαίμων.Saturn rejoices here and we will talk about the implications of that in a moment. The New Age interpretation of this house as "spiritual" is questionable. Since Saturn rejoices here, it is not beyond the pale to think that it is a house that might be associated with ´the Occult´. Saturn is associated with the occult. However, be careful. This is not the spirituality of the 9th or 3rd house. I would be careful with the spirituality that goes down in this house.

Now here are some of the significators of this house:

We might want to remove childbirth. It was probably associated with this house in ancient times because that was a major way that women died. However, hold on a moment. Going in Zodiacal rotation, this is the house prior to the house of the ascendant, so some ancient astrologers, Porphyry comes to mind, saw this house as indicating the pre-natal situation in certain cases. I don´t know. I´ve not studied this aspect of it. One thing that it is not: it is not the house of past lives. The natal chart shows the promise of this life.

Now, it is time to talk about what it means that Saturn rejoices or has its joy in this house. What does that mean? I will quote Paul of Alexander on this:

Saturn in 12th Destruction of enemies, inner and outer, if Saturn is located here. Person will prevail over enemies.

Now I will tell you two persons who have Saturn in the 12th house. I am using Whole sign houses (not Placidus, I wouldn´t let my dog use Placidus). Both Donald Trump and Barack Obama have Saturn in the 12th and both have been good at fending off enemies. We can like them or hate them, but that statement is a fact. Donald Trump, as we will see has lots of planets in the 12th and that indicates lots of enemies. But guess what? So does Joe Biden.

Since the 12th house TENDS to bring out the worst in planets, let´s look at a brief set of attributes for the negative side of planets:

Sun: arrogance
Moon: inconstancy, fickleness
Mercury: deception, theft
Venus: lust
Jupiter: Gluttony
Saturn: hatred
Mars: Anger

This is by no means, a full list. Just keep these in mind.

According to Vettius Valens, all planets are problematic in the twelfth.

Here is what else Valens has to say about this house:

Malefics can cause calamities and great injuries here and benefics do not distribute their goods, especially if they are LORD of the Ascendant, Lord of Spirit or of Fortune. Can be mitigated by a benefic in an angle.

By benefics we mean Jupiter and Venus. By malefic, we mean Saturn and Mars.

Here are some particularly important things to look at when delineating for enemies in the 12th house:

•Planets in the 12th
•12th house and its lord
Lord of twelfth and lord of 1st
•Lot of Enemies and its lord

How do you find your lot of enemy? You measure the distance from Saturn to Mars, going in zodiacal (counter-clockwise) direction. You take that distance and measure from the ascendant. That will show your part of enemies.

So I will leave it there for now. If anybody shows any interest in this subject, I will demonstrate the delineations of Donald Trumps and Joe Biden´s 12th house, using some of the techniques described above.

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December 4, 2020 at 02:17
(Leo) Sunnyshadow
December 4, 2020 at 02:20
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Sunnyshadow
Sunnyshadow, I will do this delineation tomorrow, so stay tuned. It IS interesting.
December 4, 2020 at 02:25
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » ancient_astrology
You have piqued my interest as a 12th house person. Appreciate your contribution. Looking forward to you expanding on it. Made me feel a little better about my :157: 12th

Take that enemies :4:
December 4, 2020 at 02:29
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Sunnyshadow
i will look at your chart later. I did see that in Whole Sign House System, you actually only have Saturn in the 12th and it is co-present with the north node which strengthens it, So I will need to look at other things, too, but having the Saturn there is not a bad thing at all. It´s actually quite good. It also means if you find yourself in adversity, you will eventually overcome it. You will not succumb.
December 4, 2020 at 02:50
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » ancient_astrology
Thank you for taking the time to look at that. It´s been a source of uncertainty for me. I´ve read mixed reviews lol

If Trump and Biden have it though...

Then I´m running for 2024 ticket. Make America Sunny Again 🇺🇸

Think I have noticed that several US presidents had that placement. Interesting
December 4, 2020 at 11:52
(Capricorn) Luna Alba
I am following the topic too, though not a 12th house person myself (my Lilith is in 12th)..ty for the insight :37:....It will be interesting to understand better the 12th house people I keep encountering ;)
December 4, 2020 at 12:09
(Taurus) anit
Я имею соединение Солнца, Марса, Севериный узел, Меркурий в Тельце и Венера в Овне в 12 доме. Я люблю природу, и увлекаются астрологией, изотерикой. Моё хобби куклы мотанки, точнее я делаю необычные куклы))). Тоже интересна эта тема 12дома
December 4, 2020 at 12:23
(Libra) leorising
I have a moon ruling my 12th house and for me I had to seek help to fix my moon, my mother did not receive the necessary love, so she didn’t have to give it to me, plus social exclusion it turns as a bomb. but thank God i managed to fix it, and today i´m a watch reliable. I follow my routine, and I always stick to schedules (it could be my progressed moon in virgo too). and I am a reliable person. and as I work for Saturn, I needed a very strong moon to withstand the barriers. :68:
December 4, 2020 at 14:07
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
Fully agree with this, as 12th house person. However for me there are some mitigating factors, i would say with certainty that having Mars in 12th makes anger an issue, in fact quite the opposite, i suspect the ruler of 12th being in Taurus has something to do with that.
Arrogance coming from Sun, well yes, of course i can admit i do have this tendency, but i catch myself and see it for what it is.
I do have a chronic illness, true. Enemies in my family, yes.
However i am also a very spiritual person, but i cannot say if it`s only due to 12th house, or some other placements.
Just like everything in the universe has a dual nature, so does the 12th house, so are the planets placed there. It matters much on the individual.
It can be the undoing, or salvation.
December 5, 2020 at 01:09
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
So, let´s notice a few things. We are going to concentrate on the topic of enemies in regards to Trump´s chart.

The first thing we notice is that there are MANY planets in the 12th. In this case there are Venus, Mercury and Saturn. So let´s look at the planets and their rulers to determine, who Trump´s enemies might have been.

1) Venus. Well, it is true that from the beginning Trump made many female enemies. He was caught on camera "objectifying women", saying something to the effect that when you´re famous like he is you can just "grab them by the pussy."

a. Furthermore, Venus is a ruler of the tenth. On the one hand, this could mean that Trump considers strong women (10th house and Venus) as enemies. However there is another interpretation here as well. Venus = Lust. 10th house = professional woman. A professional woman that has some connection to lust. Doesn´t this sound like Stormy Daniels, the pornographic actress whom Trump paid to keep quiet about their liaison and who finally lead a legal battle against him? She´s a strong woman, and of course linked to lust. She is also an enemy of Trump and a rather fierce one at that!

b) Venus also brings in 3rd house issues as ruler of that house. Remember 3rd house indicated siblings, or friends that you consider almost like family. A few close allies have turned against Trump.

2) Mercury in the twelfth can be linked to deception, lies and also the media.
Now, it cannot be disputed that much of the media has been against Trump and that he sees them as an enemy. Hence, his coinage of FAKE NEWS. He has accused them of being deceptive and they have accused him of being deceptive. I will let you make the call of whose right there.

Mercury as ruler of the 2nd signifies commerce, and many enemies he´s made over the years have been those he´s had business dealings with.
Mercury is also ruler of the 11th, the Public. It is true that Trump has about half the population on his side, but the other half really hate him. He has the Sun in the 11th and that would show a man who is powerful before the public and who has very powerful friends.

Saturn in the 12th. Saturn is in its detriment.Well, enemies of business associates again 7th house, but also has problems with people who work for him (6th). Now oddly enough that Saturn brings in the 6th element into the 12th. So blue-collar workers get drawn into the 12th house, but being the 12th and Saturn, they don´t really get treated very well.

That said, Saturn is in its JOY here. So as I said previously, this makes Trump untouchable in some ways. He USUALLY prevails against his enemies. He did have a very bad Solar Revolution year this year, so there is no way he´s going to get out of this one. BUT we have not heard the last from Trump.

Also Trumps Saturn is even more protected here. It is enclosed by Venus and Jupiter! A square from a benefic, like Jupiter is not harmful and actually very powerfully good. Saturn is wedged between the two benefics of Venus and Jupiter. So he´s protected. I would dare say this will prevent any possibility of Trump going to jail post-presidency.

Now other things. Let´s look at the lord of the 12th and it´s relationship to the lord of 1st. Lord of the 12th Cancer is the Moon. Where is she? In the 5th Sag. That´ not a bad place to be per se. Now where is the ruler of the 1st? Well, it´s that Sun, in the 11th. So there is tension between the two but who wins out? The Sun. Although the Moon is in a good place (the 5th), the Sun is in a stronger position in the 11th. And it is conjunct the North node which increases its power, while the Moon is conjunct the south node which decreases her power. I will allow the reader to come up with the symbolism and significance of this.

Trumps Lot of Enemies is at 3 degrees of Libra. Again this shows problems with siblings, family members other than parents (Mary Trump) and people he considers close to him. That neptune might means a certain measure of delusion either on those around him in that position or even he himself. In any case, his part of enemies is not very strong being in a cadent house. He also is conjunct my sign with Jupiter and his Lord, Venus, forms a superior square, which being a benefic is actually good, even though Venus is weakened in the 12th.

I might go over Trump´s Solar Revolution which was bad this year, but this is a delineation of the promise of his 12th house. Despite his loss this year, this twelfth house suggests that Trump will always have lots of enemies, but that he will succeed in holding them off or even defeating them.

Now I am not pro-Trump. I belong to the extreme Left, so I am not for Biden either. This is just how I see things astrologically.

Next I will do Joe Biden. Maybe tomorrow.
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December 5, 2020 at 02:41
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
Just briefly, and I will get to Biden tomorrow, I want to show Obama´s chart. Now his enemies are found elsewhere in the chart, but he shares this in common with Trump. They both have lots of enemies, and they both have Saturn in its Joy in 12th house. So they both overcome enemies. Obama´s Saturn also happens to be in domicile, which makes it even better at doing this.

I know I am competing with a Twin Flame thread, and so that one is more intellectually and astrologically fulfilling than the current one, but I just thought I might put this up here for those interested.
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December 5, 2020 at 03:18
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Sunnyshadow
SunnyShadow. Actually I have said enough about your 12th house. It is your 11th house that is AMAZING. I am going to include your chart when I write a post (very soon) about the 11th house.
December 5, 2020 at 03:19
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Sunnyshadow
Sunnyshadow, with that 11th house that you have and the 12th, you should definitely think about running for President! I am serious!!!!!
December 5, 2020 at 04:01
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » ancient_astrology
Hey Ancient, thanks alot for the encouragement and the info. I appreciate your contributions to the website also. The 12th house stuff you´ve been sharing is very interesting! I guess especially since I share some of the placements

I´m in the middle of reading an e-book about Pluto, but am looking forward to looking more at this thread very soon

Sunny 2024 🇺🇸

December 5, 2020 at 04:05
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » ancient_astrology
Feel free to use my chart if you like. I would enjoy hearing your take on it. Or maybe not! Lol

Seems like you see some positive stuff in there though, I´ll keep the Kleenex close by just in case :3:
December 5, 2020 at 06:22
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » ancient_astrology
Here´s my copy/paste contribution for the time being. I´ve never heard of Saturns JOY before, so that is new to me. Or any planets joy for that matter. I´ve learned something new


Perhaps this last part helps explain this placements penchant for the Oval Office

"Saturn is in it’s joy in the 12th house comes from another reason as well….because Saturn represents working for the lower class people. Saturn feels responsible for caring for all the cast off’s in society that deserve someone to stand up for them.  Saturn feels the weight of responsibility of all life; and wants to create a better structure for those whom can’t stand on their own."

Although, in recent history, I can´t say that´s exactly the motivation that landed most of them there 😏
December 5, 2020 at 17:44
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Sunnyshadow
Any remarks on your 11th house Sunnyshadow will be almost exclusively positive, not because I am Mr. "Everything is beautiful" (I´m a double Scorpio with Mars in the first, for God´s sake!) but because it is indeed auspicious looking.
December 5, 2020 at 17:45
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Luna Alba
I will have MUCH to say about your chart when I get round to discussing the 9th house.
December 6, 2020 at 11:28
(Capricorn) Luna Alba » ancient_astrology
Looking forward to it :37:.
December 6, 2020 at 15:12
(Taurus) Milami
I have mars in aries in 12th house and also moon and saturn in pisces.I am now aware of my enemies, but earlier I was so naive and had a lot of hidden enemies because of jealousy,people arr always jealous of me and I dont even know why.
December 6, 2020 at 16:36
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32
I don´t have any planets there. I would agree my enemies have been Uranus in Cancer/Saturn in Cancer, but I disagree with it totally being about the negatives since Saturn in Cancer can be my friend or enemy. It only becomes an issue such as Uranus in Cancer opposition Mercury in Capricorn in their chart, or Uranus in Cancer opposition Chiron in Capricorn, or the Saturn in Cancer with the South Node Cancer.

Which Cancer is ruled by the Moon. Which obviously past life would be Cancer (Family, Children) the Mid-wife. So when I read Vedic Astrology descriptions it matches with my experience with my family weighing and balancing karma in this life time.

Since I have lived through Uranus in Capricorn, Neptune in Capricorn, and Saturn in Capricorn and present transits and see how that karma plays out both in childhood and in the mid-life crisis.

And I believe the Millennial´s will see something as well when they hit Uranus in Cancer in their charts with the Capricorn Stellium.

While I know you like to stick to technicalities, I was also a Nurse Aide, and took care of the Cancer Pluto Generation and Leo Pluto Generation, and Leo´s Pluto´s been on my South Node Leo for 50 years and I have a lot of Military/Government with Aries in Chiron and they were WWII Veterans. Nurse Aide is just taking care of the big babies (Elderly).

I believe you have to understand many people have these types of experiences where they can connect the dots with events and timelines with transits and have to question whether some of it is past life affiliated.

And I´d be happy to hear the Trump/Biden techniques, because I have no problem learning technicalities, but I´m also open to understand everything isn´t always logical and practical when we´re talking about astrology.
December 9, 2020 at 23:28
(Libra) leorising » ancient_astrology
When I read this comment I didn´t quite understand the positive side of Saturn at 12, but now I watched a video from the KRS channel and it was said that Saturn at 12 th house aspects 6th house restricting the action of declared enemies. another positive point is the stability of the marriage. This restriction of Saturn is positive :157:
December 10, 2020 at 22:14
(Sagittarius) Psyle » Olenna
Have you found out the astrological factors underlying your 12th house chronic illness? Its natal factors and also the triggering transits?

I have a 6th house stellium and I found out what planetary cycle caused my chronic illness. This awareness brought a lot of relief. It´s the first step to healing.
December 11, 2020 at 10:49
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Psyle
System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
I have several issues, so I would not know where to start.
I´m like this my whole life, so not sure what you mean by cycles. Is a constant thing.

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