Chiron square Venus / Love is pain

May 29, 2020 at 12:06 (UT/GMT)
(Leo) Sunnyshadow
Chiron square Venus / Love is pain
I´ve got this and I can attest to it. 😭 I´d like some thoughts on this placement. Any way to overcome it or?

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May 29, 2020 at 12:44
(Pisces) fishscales
Squares are fought out internally...

The two energies are operating at cross purposes...

Venus´ need for love and romance will not facilitate the healing of the "primary wound" that Chiron represents and is striving for.. And vice versa...both planetary bodies are interfering, on an internal level, with what the other one is trying to accomplish...

Try to think of ways both planets´ voice can be heard simultaneously, and towards the same end, without one dominating over the other at any particular point...

It is not easy...

I should have looked at your chart first... Do you have any planets conjunct the midpoint of the square? The solution often lies there...
May 29, 2020 at 12:58
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » fishscales
Thanks man. Mars is pretty close to the midpoint
May 29, 2020 at 13:27
(Pisces) fishscales » Sunnyshadow
If I figured it correctly, the midpoint between your Venus and Chiron is 29 degrees Gemini... Mars is a little too far off..

But, you can learn alot about how and where the aspect manifests itself by just looking at the midpoint and what sign/house it falls in in your chart...

I personally believe you can also "work" that point in the chart in order to lessen the stress of the aspect... For example, if a midpoint between a square is located in the 6th house in Pisces, maybe a sacrificial or compassionate attitude at work, or performing some kind of selfless service may help the native lessen the stress of the square, even though the midpoint doesn´t seem to have anything to do with the actual problem the aspect represents...

This has actually worked for me with my Venus/moon square a bit...

BUT... Definitely check my calculations before investigating this stuff, because I suck at math!
May 29, 2020 at 14:08
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Your 7th lord is Mars and it is square the Asc/Desc axis.

That has the huge potential to create lots of fights, disagreements, and conflicts in personal relationships.

Even though that aspect and "Lord in houses" combination can attract combative, argumentative, and disagreeable partners to your life - which perhaps has been your own case - more frequently than not, this also create in the chart holder a tendency to be like that himself/herself. But most of the time the individual isn´t fully aware about how he/she creates antagonism with others. If this is your case - which it usually is - you need to become fully aware of it.

Do your own search about "Mars square Ascendant".

You also have - in whole houses - one of the worse aspects to have; Rahu (North Node) conjunct Saturn in the 12th house. This is an extremely challenging aspect to have (I have it myself and in my 12th house also). It is called "Shrapit Yoga" in Vedic astrology.


https://www.astrosaxena.com/saracon…


You need to fully research and understand both things: Mars square Asc/Desc as the 7th Lord; and Rahu-Saturn conjunction, especially in the 12th house.

Best of luck.
May 29, 2020 at 14:17
(Pisces) fishscales » Davis212
Interesting how the Mars on the 7th house, Mars square ASC/DSC, and the Venus square Chiron all echo eachother...
May 29, 2020 at 14:22
(Leo) Zephyrin
I think that aspect is as bad as Venus trine Chiron because Chiron hurts the planet he aspects to, whether it is a positive aspect or not. Love and relationships may be an extremely hard exam for us, we suffer in these areas more than other people, we´re fragile. Venus/Chiron aspects, especially squares and opposites may bring more and more pain in love affairs and finally, it may turn into fear. We fear that we´ll suffer as it is in our previous relationships, we tend to think it is a vicious circle.

I also think that Venus/Chiron aspects are related to art... Not as a talent but being interested in art can be favourable for those people, art may relieve them...
May 29, 2020 at 14:31
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » fishscales
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Yes, it is very interesting indeed how it all fit together.
May 29, 2020 at 14:43
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I have myself the Chriron-Venus opposition. And to make it worse, I am currently having (and have been for quite a few months) that aspect in transit. Fortunately, it will finally end in 2-3 days.

To make it a bit more difficult than it already is, I have Ketu (which has a tendency to "separate") conjunct my Libra Venus.

I´ve always been incredibly wounded in relationships. So much, that is is just amazing how it is possible to live with so much pain and loss. Feeling rejected and inadequate all the time; feeling misunderstood and not "seen"; unrequited love, you name it!

I´ve even considered the life of a "priest", haha; it is THAT bad.

Feeling inadequate, not good enough, not handsome enough, is really a bitch.

So I can´t offer any solutions except share your pain.

Perhaps it is just our Karmic path this lifetime because of past life events. I just don´t have an answer right now. I wish I have, but all I have are "intellectual solutions".
May 29, 2020 at 17:35
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » Davis212
Very accurate. I rub people the wrong way just by being myself. I think some people can just look at me and dislike me for whatever reason. My Libra ascendant and Leo moon wants friends and admirers, so it´s hard for me to accept. It´s kinda made me close off myself to others. It makes me go against my nature to try to be "overly" peaceful and accommodating, just to avoid conflict. If I say one thing or make one suggestion, it can escalate quickly. I think people misunderstand me because I´m generally good natured, it´s just hard.

Glad you brought up the saturn NN conjunction. That´s been on and off of my mind for awhile. I´ve heard it´s very difficult and from personal experience I agree. It´s a hard road to walk. It´s funny, I´m pretty successful dealing with customers and doing business, but personal relationships are a different story. And it´s almost like succeeding in business has only pushed the personal relationships further away. It´s like, successful, unsuccessful, it doesn´t matter. Achievements dont matter. Even trying to be kind and giving to people doesn´t matter. Right away I´m labeled by some hes too "XYZ", you name it. Oh well, thanks for the response, it´s very accurate
May 29, 2020 at 17:39
(Virgo) rohini moon » Sunnyshadow
it´s almost like succeeding in business has only pushed the personal relationships further away.

That´s usually the case in terms of astrology. You´ll get one positive trait out of a dualistic configuration - but the other will suffer because of it....that´s where balance - the middle way - comes into play. .

I can relate to you on "things escalating" quickly when not your intention... I have Mars on my asc, it´s taken me along timeee (and I´m still a work in progress) on learning how to RESPOND vs REACT....you don´t know how important this quality is for someone with my alignments.... Growing up, i knew exactly what to say to someone to cut real deep,..not something I am particularly proud of but as I´ve gotten older, I see the enormous importance of responding and not reacting like my Mars wants to do...
May 29, 2020 at 17:52
(Virgo) rohini moon » Davis212
I´ve even considered the life of a "priest", haha; it is THAT bad.

Hey, nothing wrong with that... Admirable, morally upright path. Maybe it is your true calling - and astrology is just a stepping stone towards the true divine path .. :4:
May 29, 2020 at 23:01
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Sunnyshadow
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
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"Very accurate."

:15:

"I rub people the wrong way just by being myself. I think some people can just look at me and dislike me for whatever reason."

It is the manifestation of having Mars as a 7th house (relationships with people in general) Lord square the Asc/Desc axis, while Mars is being debilitated in the sign of Cancer, and white you also are a 7h house Aries Moon. That´s a lot of Martian (fiery) energy to have in a chart. Too much directness and bluntness; at least for most people who aren´t like us.

Then your 10th (the people in general) Lord (Moon) is in Aries in the 7th (relationships in general). So you have quite a few combinations/placements that makes you a bit too "Martian".

That also makes you - at least theoretically and potentially - a very self-confident, self-assertive, and blunt/direct individual, especially as career/job is concerned. If one wants something done and someone who can get the job done (even if it requires a bit of "aggressiveness", haha), then you are the guy, haha, :-).

"My Libra ascendant and Leo moon wants friends and admirers, so it´s hard for me to accept. It´s kinda made me close off myself to others. It makes me go against my nature to try to be ´overly´ peaceful and accommodating, just to avoid conflict. If I say one thing or make one suggestion, it can escalate quickly. I think people misunderstand me because I´m generally good natured, it´s just hard."

Yes, I understand. And actually, you have a beautiful Kite which - if you really connect to it - you would be like a Pisces for others in terms of this sweet, gentle, and inviting energy.

You have a Grand Trine among Moon in aries in the 7th, Neptune in Sagittarius in the 3rd, and Venus in the 11th in Leo; the 3 houses having to do with human/social interactions and with a Planet (Neptune) that usually is compassionate and gentle (and open-minded in this case, as it is in Sagittarius).

So at least potentially - because I don´t know you personally - you have a huge potential (sorry for being redundant, haha) for being excellent at human interactions.

Then Pluto is sextile Venus, which most of the time manifest as someone with the potential to be quite charming as in the case of Morena-Lu.

Yes, the above aspect - and Pluto´s opposition to that 7th house Aries Moon - can incline the person to some kind of emotional manipulation (or being manipulated by others yourself), jealousy, and a bit of vengefulness; but only if one is tuned-in to its lower harmonics. But if one isn´t, or if one learns how to "connect" to its higher manifestations; the you reaaaally have the potential for having excellent human interactions, and more so being a super Leo - which usually makes the individual to be quite charming and warm-hearted. And add to that a Libra Asc (being fair and balanced).

"Glad you brought up the saturn NN conjunction. That´s been on and off of my mind for awhile. I´ve heard it´s very difficult and from personal experience I agree. It´s a hard road to walk."

Indeed it is!!

In Tropical, I don´t have the conjunction, but in Vedic I do. And anyway, I do have Rahu in my 12th conjunct to Chiron also in my 12th, and Saturn (debilitated in Aries) is also there in my 12th. So I know exactly how it feels and how it manifests.

But curiously enough, many people with the conjunction - even though that their lives can be really hard before our 30s - have great success in their 2nd half of life. Suddenly things (luck) turn around for them after so much struggling. At least that´s how it has been for me after my mid 40s, in terms of career.

"It´s funny, I´m pretty successful dealing with customers and doing business, but personal relationships are a different story."

I knew it!! Hahaha. And when I commented on that above, I still had not read this part.

"And it´s almost like succeeding in business has only pushed the personal relationships further away."

Yes, I understand! That´s my same case; in romantic relationships I am totally unlucky (but in friendships I am lucky, especially with women), haha; but in business relationships, I am like a Public Relations Officer, haha.

"It´s like, successful, unsuccessful, it doesn´t matter. Achievements dont matter. Even trying to be kind and giving to people doesn´t matter. Right away I´m labeled by some hes too ´XYZ´, you name it. Oh well, thanks for the response, it´s very accurate"

You are most welcome!! :15:

And I totally understand; but believe me, the huge potential for human interactions is there in your chart "screaming" very loudly!!

Some time during my evening or tomorrow, I´ll post a very excellent book that perhaps might help you to "connect" to that Kite and to your Leo nature. It is an old book, but a classic that has been read by millions.

Hang in there; trust me, you have the potential right there.
May 29, 2020 at 23:14
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » rohini moon
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
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[[[[I´ve even considered the life of a "priest", haha; it is THAT bad.]]]

"Hey, nothing wrong with that... Admirable, morally upright path. Maybe it is your true calling - and astrology is just a stepping stone towards the true divine path .. :4:"


Thanks! :-). Yes, I agree it is an admirable role/vocation. And actually, I am an ordained minister (from around 2 decades ago) - long story for another day, haha.

But after having committed sooooooooo many huge mistakes in my life, I seriously doubt it that any "Divinity" would have me in his temple, haahaha. I mean, the church would blow up with me inside, :4:
May 30, 2020 at 03:25
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » Davis212
I can really relate to this. That´s a very heart felt sentiment, to share the pain. I like that. I guess there are others like us out there is one way to find solace in all of it.

I´ve read a little about the whole Karmic path, and maybe that is it. I don´t know either. Thank you for sharing with me and taking time to share your thoughts about my chart. I can relate to what you said about "it´s just amazing how it is possible to live with so much pain and loss" I´ve lived through some very, very painful experiences, and still am really. Maybe I always will. I have moments of bliss and joy, but they are ever fleeting, and dont seem to compensate for the extended periods of pain, suffering and isolation. The worst thing is having to experience life mostly alone, and have no one to really depend on. No one to really understand you. Losing hope in finding someone to share life with, or even worse, being betrayed by the ones closest to you. Yes, lots of pain and loss. It´s not all bad though. I came up with a saying for myself that fits pretty well. "I´m the most blessed cursed person I know" :37:
May 30, 2020 at 04:56
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Chadjames, who already deleted profile on this website:
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My first thought is, if you think love is pain, then that is a victims mentality.

Pain is love... is your transendance.

Don´t get me wrong, I feel for you.

I love you.
May 30, 2020 at 07:16
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Davis212
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…


This is the book I was referring to. It has been around since 1937, and it has sold millions of copies. It is really a gem!!!

There is a new revised edition in Amazon Kindle for only $.99


"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.


I highly recommend this book to anyone who wish to improve his/her relationships with others.


https://a.co/4YPzvfA
May 30, 2020 at 08:37
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Sunnyshadow
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
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"I can really relate to this. That´s a very heart felt sentiment, to share the pain. I like that."

Yes, I like it as well. Empathy is a great healing tool.

"I guess there are others like us out there is one way to find solace in all of it."

Yes, indeed! Knowing one isn´t alone is a battle, makes it a lot easier to face the challenges.

"I´ve read a little about the whole Karmic path, and maybe that is it. I don´t know either."

Yeah, maybe….

"Thank you for sharing with me and taking time to share your thoughts about my chart."

Sure; you are most welcome :15: :15:

"I can relate to what you said about ´it´s just amazing how it is possible to live with so much pain and loss´. I´ve lived through some very, very painful experiences, and still am really. Maybe I always will."

I think that´s part of the nature of being a "Plutonian". We Plutonians are "experts" at pain, :-)). You have Pluto connections to 4 personal planets; an opposition to the Moon, and 3 sextiles to the Sun, Venus, and Jupiter. That makes you a SUPER Plutonian! And in your particular case, Jupiter is "expanding" those manifestations.

In my own case, I have a very close Pluto-Sun conjunction, a Jupiter-pluto conjunction, Pluto opposite my Moon, trine my MC, and sextile my IC. I also have the Jupiter-Sun conjunction like you, which helps us to keep the faith and hope factor up.

Being a Plutonian means being totally connected to our "shadow side", the concept from Carl Jung. So in a way, we (Plutonian individuals) know more about pain than most people do, and thus are not afraid of it. Some very applicable quotes (from Carl Jung) for people like us are:

"There´s no coming to consciousness without pain."

"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

"People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own souls. One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."


"I have moments of bliss and joy, but they are ever fleeting, and don´t seem to compensate for the extended periods of pain, suffering and isolation."

Yes, I can understand, :-(. Perhaps something you still haven´t realized, is that you not only have the Chiron-Venus square, but also the Chriron-Sun, and Chiron-Jupiter squares.

With the Chriron-Sun square, we are "wounded" in our sense of "identity", self-worth, and direction in life. With the Chiron-Jupiter square, we are wounded in our concept of faith and hope, and we might feel "unlucky" in life.

But you have Chiron trine/sextile your Nodes of the Moon. So it is your "Soul Mission" to fully understand pain and loss at a very deep level. And having a 12th house (in Whole Houses) North Node (NN), drives us towards spirituality and solitude, while the 6th house South Node, drives us away from the mundane affairs of life. I also have those placements myself. Perhaps around your Chriron return (around your 48), you would experience - if you haven´t already - that phenomena of wanting to move towards 12th house matters, and wanting to pull away from the mundane aspects of life.

"The worst thing is having to experience life mostly alone, and have no one to really depend on."

I can totally relate to that, but as I fully connected to my 12th NN, I learned to love, and to actually desire, the advantages of solitude; which isn´t the same as being "alone".

"No one to really understand you. Losing hope in finding someone to share life with, or even worse, being betrayed by the ones closest to you."

Yes, I understand; that had been my own case. But since my Chriron return, I have been able to heal many of my wounds (not all of them, by a long way) and to understand why I got wounded in the first place. And now I am so much more "at ease" with being in solitude and having 1-3 close friends to share with. But I am still waiting for that "soulmate", though, haha. "She" will arrive when she arrives; what is meant to be will be. I´ve learned to "surrender" to the wishes of the "Universe" and to stop trying to control outcomes that are not under my control.

Perhaps listening to "Mooji" might help you as it did with me. He is a great spiritual teacher; a very genuine one. Helped me a lot.


https://mooji.org/


"Yes, lots of pain and loss. It´s not all bad though."

No, it isn´t, fellow Plutonian, :-)).

"I came up with a saying for myself that fits pretty well. ´I´m the most blessed cursed person I know´ :37:"

I love that motto! Haha. That´s your Sun-Jupiter conjunction in Leo talking, :-)).
May 31, 2020 at 23:40
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » Zephyrin
Thank you Zephyrin, some interesting points there. I do have fear of failure in relationships, particularly intimate relationships. As this is all I´ve ever known. Failure, that is. They usually end quite spectacularly, with no hope of reconciliation. So now my guard is a mile high. I guess I was feeling pretty down when I started this thread, I´m feeling better now. Although it is still something that I´d like to understand better. Yes, I love good art. Music and paintings. Anything that moves the soul. It does seem to help
May 31, 2020 at 23:44
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » rohini moon
Cheers fellow Martian :37: thanks for the comment. as Peter pointed out I´ve got that Mars approach with people. I´m gonna work on that middle road 👍
May 31, 2020 at 23:55
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » Chadjames
Thank you Chad, I love you too. I can see how you could think it´s a victim mentality, or a self fulfilling prophecy. I think theres alot to be said about that. But this seems to be more than that. I can attract many things into my life, physical things. Love just doesn´t seem to be one of them 😞

It´s funny though, I´ve got pretty comfortable like this and not really sure I want to change. People take alot of work!, 😂 ....BUT...I´m still human. Sometimes I wonder why I live such a solitary existence. Probably because usually after 30 minutes of being around someone I´m ready to be alone again! 😂
June 1, 2020 at 02:13
(Virgo) rohini moon » Sunnyshadow
That´s the spirit :3: :37:
June 1, 2020 at 03:56
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » Davis212
Wow, we really have alot of aspects in common. I´m gonna try to come up with a more thorough response, but thought that was really interesting 👍
June 1, 2020 at 04:23
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Sunnyshadow
System message: Post has been written by user Davis212, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
"Wow, we really have alot of aspects in common."


Yes, we do, brother in pain and loss, haha, :15:


"I´m gonna try to come up with a more thorough response, but thought that was really interesting 👍"


Thanks! I am glad that you were able to relate to it, 👍.
June 2, 2020 at 05:07
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » Davis212
Wow, alot of good information here. Thanks again for taking the time. We share a few aspects and placements. I guess Jupiter is expanding your pluto energy as well. One of the first things I really tried to study in depth was my pluto placed in 1st house and aspecting so many other planets. I guess you could say I became obsessed with the planet of obsession 😂 I always wondered why I felt that specific energy. Once I discovered that (pluto), it started making alot more sense.

How would you explain the pluto opposite moon aspect? I see you have it also. It´s hard for me to quantify.

Enjoyed the Carl Jung quotes, good ones. Something to meditate on.

Yes, I have noticed that chiron also squares my sun and Jupiter. I think you gave a good description of the effects. As much as I strive for success, possibly due to pluto in 1st and mars in 10th, theres something missing inside. I think you´re right, it´s like a wound to my identity. 😕 self worth too ✔

maybe I over compensate for it with the big ol´ jupiter sun conjunction that makes us larger than life, warts and all. I think it´s hard to be humble with this one. It basically inflates the ego, does it not? I could take the form of Jesus and wash peoples feet and I think half the people would still say something like, "who does he think he is?" 🤣🤣
It´s all good though. Probably even more amplified with sun in Leo. Yours is in the more modest Virgo, how would you describe it if you dont mind me asking?

I have always had a spiritual side, I feel I am getting closer to making that more of a mission in life, yes. I enjoy reading about transcendental experiences and the like, great teachers of spirituality. I had picked up a meditation and yoga practice once years ago, but quit for some reason. Got distracted by the world I suppose. But would like to start again, yes. The 12th house NN stuff for sure.

Yes, I´m really beginning to be comfortable in solitude. Plenty of time to think and process feelings and thoughts. I get irritated and tired when I´m around people too long. Part of me still desires friends and companionship though, so it´s a balancing act I´m still figuring out.

I looked at mooji, my first impression was good. I´m going to look more into it. 👍

Namaste my friend


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