Ascendant: Mask or Lens?

January 25, 2020 at 18:54 (UT/GMT)
(Pisces) fishscales
Ascendant: Mask or Lens?
There´s alot or astrological material out there that says the ascendant is the mask we wear as we engage with the world.

I agree with this to a point. The problem I have with it is that it makes the ascendant out to be a "fake" influence. A mask is not real; it hides the reality.

Other astrological sources refer to the ascendant more as the window through which we express ourselves. A lens, if you will. What we are expressing through that lens would presumably be the innermost parts of ourselves: our sun and moon. This seems a bit more legitimate to me.

Nevertheless, when I meet people for the first time, I definitely show my Libra side first. I don´t really think about it, it´s automatic. So maybe there is some credence to the "ascendant as mask" theory.

What does the forum think?

Is your ascendant just a mask you wear, or is it a lens through which you project what is inside of you to the outside world? Or a little of both?

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January 25, 2020 at 19:03
(Taurus) dani_mae1
I feel like my ascendant is HOW I maneuver through the world, if that makes sense? At least that’s the simplest way I could express it.
January 25, 2020 at 19:05
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user emerauxe, who already deleted profile on this website:
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It´s the most obvious part that other people see about you, and they think they know you from this superficial exposure.

What they haven´t seen until they get to know you in a more in depth way is your deeper selves, your Sun and Moon, which can be totally hidden by a stronger sign on the ascendant and gives a distorted presentation that hides your other characteristics from the public at large.
January 25, 2020 at 19:10
(Aquarius) Amdash
I agree with you on the part about seeing the ascendant as a lens, but if I could add, I think the ascendant is also a layer as well. A layer of the self we think we are projecting/ as well as what we think is the correct way we want people to see us, when in truth it may not be the actual piece of of us that we want them to see but something different.

It´s weird too.

I want people to see me more like an Aquarius or a little bit more like a Leo, but most of the time people generally see me as a Scorpio ascendant. Because I am fairly reserve, and I don´t tend to open up as much about myself to other people.

In real truth I just don´t know how to get to the actual layer I want and when I feel like I can´t, it´s almost like a auto program to go straight back to Scorpio asc.

Because somewhere in my mind I Think I´m going to be going in a straight line when it comes to this layer, which would lead me to other layers, but I have so many times felt like that hasn´t really been the case a lot. It usually only gets like three or four. So that may just be because of the planets being in my house is too..

And usually, I´m not as big on expressing myself through clothing, but sometimes my choice of clothing sometimes shows that too.
January 25, 2020 at 19:11
(Pisces) fishscales » dani_mae1
Yes, that makes alot of sense.

I guess I just take issue with that term "mask" I read everywhere, even though I see some truth in it too.
January 25, 2020 at 19:11
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
I will state the point of view of traditional astrology on this matter. I will not defend it, because I´m not sure.

In traditional astrology it is the rising sign and its ruler that shows the most about the person´s personality and essential character and, for that matter,physical appearance. This is very different than modern astrology. Modern astrology sees the personality/character reflected in all of the houses. In traditional astrology those other houses reflect events in the person´s life.

Then along came Dane Rudhyar who introduced Jungian concepts into astrology and, for better or worse, set the course of 20th/21st century astrology. So under that schema the rising sign shows the persona and Venus shows the anima (in men) and mars, the animus (in women). Saturn shows the "Wise Old Man" archetype, The Sun, the integrated Self, etc.

So astrology should evolve but modern astrology (1) threw the baby out with the bath water, and (2) accepted en bloc a vision of the world and superimposed it on astrology.

So I think it´s not controversial to say that this is a divergence from traditional astrology which was untainted by depth psychology. Surely the person is more complicated and polychromatic than the rising sign would suggest or even could indicate, but I am not sure that I would equate it with the Jungian ´persona" or "mask".
January 25, 2020 at 19:16
(Virgo) rohini moon » emerauxe
"It´s the most obvious part that other people see about you, and they think they know you from this superficial exposure."

Very much agree. People that get to know me deeply, always say they´re surprised by how nurturing I am. My ascendant isn´t generally known for that, but I have an abundant amount of compassion for animals and children.

I think my moon and sun play a major role in that. .but also Saturn. Having Saturn in Libra I think makes me more compassionate for certain kinds of issues and people...always wanting to remain fair. And always wanting to help those less fortunate.

Maybe that´s explains my D-9 chart as well, my moon is in cancer.
January 25, 2020 at 19:22
(Pisces) fishscales » emerauxe
Yes we do present our ascendant to other people first...

I guess what I am asking is does the forum "feel" the ASC as a part of themselves, or is it just something that´s projected?

Also, to what extent does it operate with the sun and moon signs?

Of course, the sun and moon signs, their relationship to the ascendant, and their aspects to the ascendant matter.

My Libra ASC and Pisces sun are in an inconjunct relationship to eachother. I´ve always felt that my Pusces sun is not represented very well in how I come across to others. Yet I can´t seem to shake coming across as Libran...although I feel myself inside as a Pisces much more than a Libra...

Pisces is also a sign that takes on the qualities of the influences around it however...
January 25, 2020 at 19:24
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » rohini moon
System message: Post has been written by user emerauxe, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Most people will be taken by surprise and have no idea that what they see in front of their eyes is only a fraction of what truly resides within your being!
January 25, 2020 at 19:24
(Leo) RunnerChic85
Very interesting topic. I too don´t really care for the "mask" description...it makes it sound like something fake we put on to hide our true selves. I like to see it more of a lease that our sun and moon come through. My sensitive, caring nature is a very part of who I am--not something I just put on because that´s how I want to be seen.

Honestly, though, I cannot tell how I come off to others...I´m not super shy like a Cancer, but I´m not super bold like a Leo either--maybe somewhere near the middle. I personally think I come off as more like a Libra, kind, open, and easy-going...but Libra´s my moon sign, my inner me, so that´s what would feel most comfortable to me. I do have Venus in the ascensdent though so that could play a factor.
January 25, 2020 at 19:26
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » fishscales
System message: Post has been written by user emerauxe, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I think your ascendant is a real part of you, but not the whole story, by any means.
January 25, 2020 at 19:26
(Aries) ram_goat
oh god, both... a mask and a mental approach to things. Hard to say where one ends and the other begins. Jupiter in Cap also adds to this I think, in my own case. Famine thinking. Pessimism.
January 25, 2020 at 19:31
(Libra) leorising
Nowadays i believe that I have a shine face like a lion, but when you meet me, there will be aspects in my habits like a Virgo ascendant ( my ascendant progressed) i am very humble and helpful
(I wear my crown discreetly)
January 25, 2020 at 19:32
(Virgo) rohini moon » emerauxe
I think your ascendant is a real part of you, but not the whole story, by any means.

Yes, consider it the cover to a book.. what´s inside has to be read. It´s not a complete picture of anything.
January 25, 2020 at 19:33
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32
With Leo A.C. and South Node Leo it´s a mask. It´s more like the Aquarius individuals in the 7th and handing you a script during your Rahu Mahadasha and telling you this is who you are and you should dress this way, act this way, and this is what I want you to do. Projections on to me as an Introvert. Since pretty much if you´re an Introvert they only know what they see in the physical actions in the Leo Pluto Generation. They´re all about behavior modification which works with the (Extrovert) since they are more dopamine driven to act for a reward.

I used to things momentarily, but then stop because I didn´t see the point of it and wasn´t motivated by external rewards or to fit in. Then I´d get into trouble.

With the dragons head with no Head, it´s hard to say it´s a Lens. Since my North Node is the head in the 7th house.

So obviously, in my nodal return of Aquarius and Aquarius in Chiron transit along with Neptune in Aquarius was where the mask starts coming off. Aquarius is all about the authentic self, authentic truth, removing the layers of masks. Since you can wear many to people please, fit in, be obedient, do what your supposed to do and follow the heard. Which basically this is where Capricorn Pluto started in 0 degrees and I have Capricorn Mercury 9 degrees. Now I went through a lot of transits that are passage of rites, but Pluto conjunct Mercury in Capricorn is one of the biggest ones which transform all the thinking process entirely, all the masks come crumbling down, the false beliefs, self-limiting beliefs, conditioning of those before hand, and it is quite polarizing and deep subconscious work.

The Lens is how I percieved reality, the experience, the emotions, the feelings, the thoughts. The Negative inner critic vs. the External Critic, the Virgo Pluto Yin/Yang, polarity and duality, shame, guilt, blame, and with Virgo Pluto 29 degrees it began with Saturn Virgo opposition Uranus in Pisces. Simon Vorster has a nice video on this subject.

Anyway I´m a different complete person now then back in 2010 in North Node Capricorn. People can´t see in the inner transformation. And one of the things you learn to do in the teaching back then "Who am I?" Am I the person they project on to me? This is what the Spiritual Teacher kept focusing on, although, I didn´t know astrology and her teaching was more to trust myself and intuition then cheating with an astrology chart. I would have never gotten the lesson so thoroughly if I had known Astrology.

I suppose I see it backwards as there is the Lens humanity projects on me, and I have learned to hear what they say both positive and negative criticism, but "Who am I" is always in the 1st house versus who you tell me "I am." in the 7th house.

There´s a whole process of being polarized, and as I stated before being an Introvert, I would listen to Dan Pena to polarize myself and get past those deepest darkest fears of my shadow. Because it tends to be "You´re the snow flake" if you happen to be like Mother Theresa.

Now people project on me, I´m like this has nothing to do with who I am. So I suppose for other people without the Nodes in the 1st/7th house it might be the lens your projecting on to those in the 7th house. I have projected the Enemy is those in the 7th house. Although, I´ve had to learn every Aquarius is not my enemy. It´s kind of weird situation since it´s more Uranus related and wounding of the intelligence, the thought process, and emotions.

But naturally in the conventional medical model, I was taught to project on to the ex´s or family, you´re the enemy, you´re to blame, you´re broken, you´re diseased, you´re at fault.

In the court system, I´m the Victim, and you´re the victimizer.

In the unconventional models you´re switching places, understanding it´s how I see things from my point of view. How am I acting, behaving, and why are you reacting the way you are by what I say or do. I´m projecting through the lens of my experience the wounds from my past on to you and getting emotionally triggered by your energetic frequency, harmonics, vibration, but in different combinations with transits which call for me to dig deeper into my own subconscious mind and get to the root of the matter. It is me finding out what in the past is the root of the problem. Who gave me this belief, is the story true. (Byron Katie). Is it true you will wound me just like the person in the past? No this is false. Be in the present and stop projecting the person in the past on to the present person.

Then this is called the Mental Emotional Picture. In my mind I visualize the Victimizer, pull up those emotional vibes, the wounding, the feeling, the emotions, the anxiety, the stress. The false belief (You will hurt me too.) No this is not true. Maybe or maybe not. It´s all about whether I hold on to that dark negative charge or forgive it and let it go.

My Mental Emotional Picture of the past has nothing to do with the present moment. So the Lens really comes in with Leo/Cancer the Third Eye. Seeing Clearly and with clarity. Seeing through the haze and fog of Neptune or the Nodes.
January 25, 2020 at 19:34
(Aquarius) Amdash » rohini moon
That is a really good analogy to the expression of the ascendent.
January 25, 2020 at 19:37
(Pisces) fishscales » Amdash
"In real truth I just don´t know how to get to the actual layer I want and when I feel like I can´t, it´s almost like a auto program to go straight back to Scorpio asc."

That´s very interesting Amdash...

I feel like I´m autoprogramned to go to my Libra ASC when I am just getting to know people, but when I´m in a difficult situation and can´t find which "layer" I want, as you put it, I instinctively tune in more to my Pisces sun...maybe my Aquarius moon too, in certain situations...

So our "autoprogramming" kicks in and takes us to different parts of our charts at different times, but it´s still the same principle...
January 25, 2020 at 19:39
(Virgo) rohini moon » Amdash
Thanks, that´s the best way I can explain what I envision in terms of what someone is projecting vs what´s inside
January 25, 2020 at 19:48
(Scorpio) Angelina
I also show my Libra asc side first when I meet people. It´s very convenient - I know, that people will like that diplomatic and cute side of me. Very rarely I openly show my scorpio side from the beginning :D
But also I notice, that sometimes when I already don´t try to show Libra qualities, people, who don´t know me very well still consider me as Libra.
So I think it is a blend of tendencies. You show it intentionally, but also asc qualities are the part of You for the eyes of others even when You don´t want to show them.
January 25, 2020 at 19:54
(Gemini) stigmí
I think ascendant simply express how we are in contact with world... how we and world are touching each other without some special acting. And every planet in aspect to ascendant can colour that image.
Its like filter both way.
My opinion ; )
January 25, 2020 at 19:59
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32 » fishscales
Maybe it´s not finding the layer you want, but removing each layer and breaking your attachment to the layer. It´s sort of like being a wood floor with five coats of paint. You don´t worry about saving the layers of paint, you just strip it down to the bare oak wood floor. You sand it. Then you varnish it and it´s a brand new floor.
January 25, 2020 at 20:02
(Pisces) N_thecat
I thought about this subject today :61:

I´m inclined to admit that the Ascendant is rather our mask...

I have Leo´s ascendant and it certainly gives me Leo´s qualities in appearance and behaviour, but my behaviour "at first sight" is not my true nature, these are rather appearances or not entirely true...I give the impression of being rather self-confident person,almost always made a good first impression ...I got most of the work in my life after interviews. And then, well...I wasn´t necessarily such a good employee. And in various other situations, where that first impression counts, it was similar. Leo Ascendant does the best advertising of herself - I guess this is the reason why so many Leos work in entertainment...They shine like a :78:,but it doesn´t mean they are really that great :1: So in my case, I can admit that Ascendant is lying a little. It´s like putting on a mask that covers a real/a bit different nature. I have Leo Ascendant, but in real life I´m not as brave as true Leo - I´m still more shy Sun in Pisces...But Ascendant in Leo allows me to hide these flaws of Pisces very easily...At least at first glance :2:

Of course the stick has two ends - I often have to deal with the image of rising Leo - people can even judge me as arrogant, too confident (these are Leo´s qualities,sorry guys) and I have to suffer the consequences of that - convince others that it´s not true or to see someone´s disappointment, because I´m not like someone expected. It happens to me very often and it´s annoying. I admit that I have a problem with Ascendant - I can´t tell what it really is, to what extent it shapes the image of our person and how much it shows our behavior.
January 25, 2020 at 20:09
(Aquarius) Leo Moon
A really good topic Fish. I have thought about this as well , because I have taken issue with the idea that the rising sign is a fake mask .

I think it’s more like a lens as You so aptly describe it.

I like what Amdash says about layers to one’s personality.

I have Libra rising and see classic Libra traits in myself.

I read a few descriptions of Venus rising and Venus trine ascendant, which I also have describing that aspect as beautiful , charming people.

Hey, I won’t argue! Ha ha :3:
January 25, 2020 at 20:13
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » stigmí
System message: Post has been written by user emerauxe, who already deleted profile on this website:
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A very important point, stigmi, aspects to the ascendant can change everything.
January 25, 2020 at 20:20
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user darkneptune, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Hm. Actually it depends on situation. When I´m outside with strangers somewhere I usually put reserved mask which would indicate my Sun in Scorpio. When I have to meet new people, I´m quite Libra Ascendant being nice. Especially when I met people who I like, no one would say I´m Scorpio but after some time, my dark Scorpio side comes to the surface :61:.
January 25, 2020 at 20:21
(Pisces) fishscales » N_thecat
"So in my case, I can admit that Ascendant is lying a little. It´s like putting on a mask that covers a real/a bit different nature"

Yes...I don´t think my ascendant is "lying" really, but it doesn´t give a good picture of what lies beneath...

No one ever believes I´m a Pisces when they find out my sun sign...

I am always an Aries, a Scorpio, or a Libra, in that order...

So I guess my Mercury, 1st house Pluto (in whole signs) and Libra ASC bury my sun sign when dealing with others... Although I unquestionably feel the Pisces within myself...
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