Pluto is NOT the ruler of Scorpio

December 21, 2019 at 01:46 (UT/GMT)
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
Pluto is NOT the ruler of Scorpio
The image is of the Thema Mundi, which purportedly depicts the chart of the creation of the world. You will notice that the Sun is in Leo, just where you might expect the luminary to be at the hottest month of the year in the northern hemisphere. Beside it is the moon in Cancer, radiating out from these two is Mercury in Gemini and Virgo. Venus in Libra and Taurus; Mars in Scorpio and Aries; Jupiter in Sagittarius and Pisces; and finally, Saturn in Capricorn and Aquarius. These are the traditional house rulers and have been so at least since 100 CE and probably well before that.

Here´s the thing to remember about planets when they are found in their own domicile: they are in their own element. They are at home. And as such are much less likely to be nasty.

So if Pluto were the ruler of Scorpio, its passage through Scorpio in the 80s and 90s should have been relatively calm. I know it´s Pluto, but the keyword here is RELATIVELY. Instead it was a shit storm. This was the apex of the Aids crisis. I have my Ascendant, Mars, and Sun in Scorpio and Moon in Taurus in opposition: my mother died, my father died and I almost died when Pluto passed through. It was hell. If Pluto had been the ruler of Scorpio I would not have expected such rough waters.

Pluto is NOT the ruler of Scorpio. Period. And the other outer planets are not rulers of any signs either. The traditional rulers are the only rulers.
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December 21, 2019 at 03:55
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user MarvinReal, who already deleted profile on this website:
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The Thema Mundi is complete with traditional planets only.

The thing is that Scorpio and Pluto are both even separately like that. Aries and Scorpio are just additional hotspots to thrive the hell in.

Pluto´s monologue in my head: I was designated a dwarf planet, and a plutoid, a whole category of objects named after me, hmm not enough. If you take away even rulership of Scorpio, what is left for me? Ohh, wait, in Traditional chart I don´t even exist. I was always operating in a shadow and that´s where I am dominating over others and that´s where I thrive in my hell and nothing else matters to me. Hopes and fears are plain words of someone else. Who could challenge me at all. When will humans discover another planet, much much larger than myself, somewhere farther than wildest imagination, I will remain on spotlight and they will understand me more. While me, Pluto, rotating at the distance between 30 and 50 AU, that new guy will be likely at 500 to 800 AU. If ever found, it will stay in one sign for few thousand years. Everything is fear but I would never admit it.

Not enough to say it on some forum.
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December 21, 2019 at 03:57
(Aquarius) Leo Moon
I was going to ask if You used the outer planets at all
due to You using ancient astrology.

You have answered one of my questions.
December 21, 2019 at 03:58
(Aquarius) Leo Moon
So Uranus has no influence on me inYour view.

Just Saturn.
December 21, 2019 at 04:03
(Pisces) fishscales
A planet in domicile is going to express itself in a very pure, unadulterated way.

All the things you went through while Pluto was in Scorpio...the deaths, the experience of "hell"... those are both things that Pluto is intimately associated with.

As unfortunate and undoubtedly painful as your experiences were, they sound exactly like what would be experienced by someone with a heavy Scorpio influence while Pluto was passing through that sign.

I don´t agree with the idea that a planet passing through its home sign is an indication of guaranteed smooth sailing. That may be the case for Venus and Jupiter, even Saturn, but Pluto is a different animal.

As for rulership, I believe that Pluto is the co-ruler of Scorpio, along with Mars, but that the sign of Scorpio is more Plutonian than it is Martian, although it certainly has its Martian qualities.

Personally, I don´t care what any book or school of thought has to say about it. To me, it´s something that can be felt on an intuitive level.

Now, as far as predictive work: if someone is a Scorpio rising, I believe the transits and movements of Mars may be more important than those of Pluto...but even that is not something I´m 100% convinced of.
December 21, 2019 at 04:07
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Leo Moon
System message: Post has been written by user MarvinReal, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I don´t know about his answer,

but in my view is Uranus special category, and should be probably included in traditional planets.

The reason for me is that Uranus wil make full cycle within lifespan of a human, some ~ 84 years, so it´s not outer enough.
December 21, 2019 at 04:08
(Pisces) fishscales » Leo Moon
"So Uranus has no influence on me in your view."

:61: :61:

I´m sorry, I´m using the juvenile, slightly buzzed person definition of Uranus at the moment ...
December 21, 2019 at 04:17
(Aquarius) Leo Moon » fishscales
Yeah, I was going for both meanings.
So You weren’t wrong!

:4:
December 21, 2019 at 04:28
(Pisces) fishscales » Leo Moon
:15: :4:
December 21, 2019 at 07:44
(Taurus) IIyyaarr13
As a Taurus I was kind of worried when Pluto was in Scorpio.
I clicked "FULL SIZE" and the Thema Mundi stayed post-it sized.
Charon eclipses, Pluto perihelion, melt season are all in Scorpio.
Pluto is between the speed of :199: & :159: when in Scorpio!
1781 the Rulership of :157: was usurped by :199:
1846 the Rulership of :156: was usurped by :159:
They are ice giants and angry red :10: had it´s place in the Sun! :27:
December 21, 2019 at 09:49
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Moon_Queen, who already deleted profile on this website:
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As more I explore astrology it looks like that everything is about convention... "Astrology rules" are something that majority agree.

I personally agree that Pluto cannot be ruler of Scorpio but I personally have very different understanding of astrology from convetional one.
December 21, 2019 at 13:40
(Taurus) nutelina » MarvinReal
What if it is just a clockwork showing the time? It just has more pointers.
December 21, 2019 at 13:43
(Taurus) nutelina
How can there be an original when X thousand of years ago the Spinx in Cairo was facing the constellation of Leo?

The Great Sphinx is a colossal statue with the face of a man and the body of a lion. Carved out of the surrounding limestone bedrock, it is 57 metres (187 ft) long, 6 metres (20 ft) wide, and has a height of 20 metres (66 ft), making it the largest single-stone statue in the world. The Great Sphinx is one of the world´s largest and oldest statues, yet basic facts about it such as the real-life model for the face, when and why it was built, and by whom, are debated. These questions have collectively earned the title "Riddle of the Sphinx", a nod to its Greek namesake, although this phrase should not be confused with the original Greek legend.

The Great Sphinx is commonly accepted by Egyptologists to represent the likeness of King Khafra (also known by the Hellenised version of his name, Chephren)[17] who is often credited as the builder as well. This would place the time of construction somewhere between 2520 BC and 2494 BC. Because the limited evidence giving provenance to Khafra is ambiguous, the idea of who built the Sphinx, and when, continues to be the subject of debate. An argument put forward by Bauval and Hancock to support the Orion Correlation Theory is that the construction of the Great Sphinx was begun in 10,500 BC; that the Sphinx´s lion-shape is a definitive reference to the constellation of Leo; and that the layout and orientation of the Sphinx, the Giza pyramid complex and the Nile River are an accurate reflection or "map" of the constellations of Leo, Orion (specifically, Orion´s Belt) and the Milky Way, respectively.[18]

A date of 10,500 BC is chosen because they maintain this is the only time in the precession of the equinoxes when the astrological age was Leo and when that constellation rose directly east of the Sphinx at the vernal equinox. They also suggest that in this epoch the angles between the three stars of Orion´s Belt and the horizon were an "exact match" to the angles between the three main Giza pyramids. These propositions and other theories are used to support the overall belief in an advanced and ancient, but now vanished, global progenitor civilization.

The theory that the Sphinx is actually far older has received some support from geologists. Most famously, Robert M. Schoch has argued that the effects of water erosion on the Sphinx and its surrounding enclosure mean that parts of the monument must originally have been carved at the latest between 7000–5000 BC.[19] Schoch´s analysis has been broadly corroborated by another geologist, David Coxill, who agrees that the Sphinx has been heavily weathered by rainwater and therefore must have been carved in pre-dynastic times.[20] A third geologist, Colin Reader, has suggested a date only several hundred years prior to the commonly accepted date for construction. These views have been almost universally rejected by mainstream Egyptologists who, together with a number of geologists including James Harrell, Lal Gauri, John J. Sinai, and Jayanta K. Bandyopadhyaym,[21][22] stand by the conventional dating for the monument. Their analyses attribute the apparently accelerated wear on the Sphinx variously to modern industrial pollution, qualitative differences between the layers of limestone in the monument itself, scouring by wind-borne sand, or temperature changes causing the stone to crack.
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December 21, 2019 at 14:05
(Libra) leorising
i ve born in 1986, pluto was in scorpio, i am feel powerful :17:
December 21, 2019 at 15:20
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Leo Moon
<<I was going to ask if You used the outer planets at all
due to You using ancient astrology.>>


Yes. I just don´t assign rulership to the outer planets. Uranus (hee hee) does have an influence on you (and me, too). It´s just not the ruler of Aquarius, in my opinion.
December 21, 2019 at 16:28
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » nutelina
System message: Post has been written by user MarvinReal, who already deleted profile on this website:
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The Atlantis was buried before the Sphinx was built, obviously.
December 21, 2019 at 16:40
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » nutelina
System message: Post has been written by user Moon_Queen, who already deleted profile on this website:
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The age of Pisces also started from the year of "Milan Edict" 313 AD (sidereal of course) when Fish was the main symbol that could be found everywhere...


Sky doesn´t lie.
December 21, 2019 at 16:43
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Moon_Queen
System message: Post has been written by user MarvinReal, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Yes, we know you´re blasphemous in astrology. A Rebellious chick.
December 21, 2019 at 18:13
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » MarvinReal
System message: Post has been written by user Moon_Queen, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
C´mon, it is not that serious "girls just wanna have fun" :78:
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December 21, 2019 at 18:25
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Moon_Queen
System message: Post has been written by user MarvinReal, who already deleted profile on this website:
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:15: :75:
December 21, 2019 at 21:15
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user jerrynna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I argue that Pluto is the co-ruler of Scorpio for these reasons:

<<So if Pluto were the ruler of Scorpio, its passage through Scorpio in the 80s and 90s should have been relatively calm. I know it´s Pluto, but the keyword here is RELATIVELY. Instead it was a shit storm. This was the apex of the Aids crisis. I have my Ascendant, Mars, and Sun in Scorpio and Moon in Taurus in opposition: my mother died, my father died and I almost died when Pluto passed through. It was hell. If Pluto had been the ruler of Scorpio I would not have expected such rough waters.>>

No question, you went through shit. And so did many others.
But isn´t the real scorpionic treat the one who is not going to be smooth and easy, the one who is going through you, digging inside of you, grabbing your heart and shaking it through until you get real with your own world? That is at least what I would expect from a ruler passing it´s own sign (or at least what I would expect in a heavy scorpio time). That it gets into the substance. That it makes the real essence of it´s sign come to the surface. That it creates a deeper experience around it´s sign´s promise. That during (and because of) it´s transit, the sign is able to built the tools to pull himself up, making him stronger.
Pluto must be felt heaviest in it´s own sign. And the sign of death and destruction and rebirth is Scorpio.

It makes sense to me, tbh.
December 21, 2019 at 21:35
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Moon_Queen, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
We have no real ruler for Scorpio (and also Libra) that demands unconditional love and emotional attachment "one on one" - real marriage.
Being so, all we can do is to borrow it from some other sign as we did it with Mars (Venus in the case of Libra) which I personally find the wrong pick. Scorpio has similarities with Mars only by the intensity (because we desperately need the real ruler) but not by essence...
To me, Scorpio can more relate to Moon and Neptune being a water sign and having emotional-based demand, but as I already said, everything is about convention...



disclaimer:
I´m not doing astrology professionally I use it for my personal growth...
December 21, 2019 at 21:35
(Pisces) TimeSciences » jerrynna
´Co-rulership´ as jerrynna writes as well as outer planets interpretations as ´generational´ makes sense. A search using ´Neptune in Scorpio generation´ and ´generational planets astrology thema mundi´ reveals alot of info. pointing to these.

Here are some examples:

https://www.darbycostello.co.uk/art…


Medieval Astrology Guide › traditio...

Traditional Rulers - Medieval Astrology Guide

Here is a brief introduction to the Thema Mundi, the Chart of the World. ... it appears that the goal of modern astrologers in assigning sign rulerships to the outer planets is an attempt to get to a one sign per planet system
December 21, 2019 at 21:50
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » jerrynna
I am just glad that I managed to get Jerrynna out of her hiding place. That alone is worth having posted this.
December 21, 2019 at 22:02
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » ancient_astrology
System message: Post has been written by user jerrynna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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:37: I´m just going to post here when I find something interesting to say. At least in my opinion :)
December 21, 2019 at 22:26
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » jerrynna
System message: Post has been written by user jerrynna, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
Maybe Mars transiting Scorpio brings out the strenght to push against resistance, to stand up again and keep moving and Pluto transiting Scorpio brings out the real depths of the underworld, from death to sex (i´m thinking about the AIDS era you mentioned).

Scorpio is the sign that lives around death (and sex) all his life and is equally fascinated and fearful of it. Pluto transiting Scorpio is his perceived death and resurrection. Pluto is letting the Scorpio live through his biggest fears but also giving him his life back. A scorpionic dream come true.
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