Malefic vs Stimulating

June 26, 2019 at 12:49 (UT/GMT)
(Gemini) pneumadeux
Malefic vs Stimulating
:::: Tiny Rant from my Tiny Midwest Soapbox :::::

Have you noticed (or perhaps, are you one of those) that see transits and/or aspects involving so-called “malefics” and immediately interpret them in the negative — and often dire — ways?

“With Pluto in the 7th he’ll just dominate any long-term relationships…”

“OMG. Mars in the 12th. Hide the knives!”

“Poor thing; Saturn in the 2nd. She’ll always have to hold 2 jobs just to make ends meet.”

Here’s a little challenge for you:

Try to use astrology as a guide for what to shoot for, rather than a map of what´s to come.

When you see Pluto, even in opposition or square aspect, think Revolution or Transformation.

When you see Mars, think Assertion and Initiative rather than Aggression and Selfish Force.

When you see Saturn, think Considered Approach or Discipline rather than Obstacles or Withholding.

To transcend means to “go beyond.” Your natal chart — or the natal charts of your friends and clients — aren´t molds or railroad tracks. They simply indicate the energy influences present in various areas.

And every single one of those influences — from even the “malefics” in “bad” aspects — point the way to growth, expansion, and wider, deeper awareness.

I always seek how a chart can give good direction for what we or our clients can do; what actions can we take, to simply be happier.

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June 26, 2019 at 13:05
(Scorpio) SpaceChild
"Have you noticed (or perhaps, are you one of those) that see transits and/or aspects involving so-called “malefics” and immediately interpret them in the negative — and often dire — ways?"

Yes, I have. I try my best to consider the positive in them to transform them though it can be tough. I thought transiting Mars against my natal Mars was going to mean ´problems´ with my mother, turns out it meant ´problems´ within the family I made. I try to take action to work through these problems but it is tough when the other person is stubborn about it.

But yes, I have/tend to think about the negative. I need to try more to think about how to transcend the transits.
June 26, 2019 at 13:31
(Gemini) pneumadeux » SpaceChild
“I try to take action to work through these problems but it is tough when the other person is stubborn about it.”

Oooh. Great segue. :)

We can spend awesome alone time, meditate, and observe the world with great success and peace.

But geez-o-pete, toss in a few "others" and it gets spicy real fast, doesn´t it.

I try to spend a little time every single freaking day practicing the Vedic mantra, "Taht vahm assi," which translated literally means, "I AM that."

Next time you´re experiencing challenges with others, breathe, look at them, really listen to them, and say softly to yourself, "I, yes I, am THAT."

The only reason you´re experiencing challenges with that "other" is because the very aspects of that person that are rubbing you a bit raw are being repressed inside of you. You´re seeing the parts of you that you can´t tolerate revealed externally.

Enter Jung:

“Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”
June 26, 2019 at 13:41
(Gemini) stigmí
Thank you for this point of view :15: i was waiting who will open it..
And tell me: what qualitie/characteristic in chart causes that somebody is able to transform/change/make theirselves to better self?
Because it is not natural/automatic reaction or action. Some people even are really not able to change.
What in chart causes that people are or are not able to transform to better?

I am talking about effect to actions, real life, not just talking about it.

Thank you :99:
June 26, 2019 at 13:52
(Pisces) fishscales
Great post, pneumadeux, thank you.

The planetary energies absolutely have different levels of expression, including the traditionally "malefic" ones. It´s our job to seek out and embody the highest levels of those expressions.

Basically, don´t let the planets tell you what you can´t do, let them tell you what you can do.

This was also really good, and mirrors my own view:

"The only reason you´re experiencing challenges with that "other" is because the very aspects of that person that are rubbing you a bit raw are being repressed inside of you. You´re seeing the parts of you that you can´t tolerate revealed externally."

:15: :15:
June 26, 2019 at 13:54
(Scorpio) SpaceChild » pneumadeux
Great reply, and yes it gets spicy real fast lol, great way of putting it.

I can totally relate to what you said, quote -

"The only reason you´re experiencing challenges with that "other" is because the very aspects of that person that are rubbing you a bit raw are being repressed inside of you. You´re seeing the parts of you that you can´t tolerate revealed externally."

I am aware now, thank you, of this very much. The other person is holding traditional/outdated views which I am repressing in a sense- I grew up with the same outlook of things, yet I am trying my hardest to change them because I have found evidence of better ways. Your insight about this will help me I believe.
June 26, 2019 at 13:58
(Gemini) pneumadeux » stigmí
”What quality/characteristic in chart causes that somebody is able to transform/change/make theirselves to better self?”

Oh that´s easy: it´s the simple fact that the chart is the chart of a human being. Human beings have the inherent ability to transform themselves.

“…it is not natural/automatic reaction or action. Some people even are really not able to change.”

It is a cultural reality that the propensity to transform oneself isn´t automatic. We have all been conditioned to look at our Selves as separate from the rest of the universe. The reality isn´t so. We are all one, contiguous organism.

The Taoists, the Buddhists, Native Americans, and many others have realized this for centuries.

Bruce Frantzis, for example, leads seminars and retreats on Taoist meditation built on the premise that you "relax into your Being." In other words, you have to release the physical condition that causes you to live in a 24/7 state of tension and dis-ease, brought on by our cumulative conditioning. Then... when you are fully who you Are, who you have always been, underneath it all... you won´t transform, you´ll reveal. :)
June 26, 2019 at 14:39
(Gemini) beep » pneumadeux
Damn... that’s deep
June 26, 2019 at 15:46
(Gemini) stigmí » pneumadeux
I want to know something little different. What i am interested in is ability to heal.
Of course we can talk hours about philosophy, effects of meditations and wow effects of our exploring ourselves.
But i am talking about people who are not able to change mind, change habits, change life, change point of view to themselves and so on.
Are we still talking about astrology? : )

You wrote nice things, i agree with this. But if you want to help someone with problems, you have to first uncover their blocks/obstacles. Or??

And thats my question. What in chart make it difficult....
June 26, 2019 at 16:36
(Gemini) pneumadeux » stigmí
To answer your question specifically, here´s what I do in simplistic terms.

1: Normally the client comes to me with a specific "issue." I will most usually first look at the houses that issue deals with, according to the most commonly accepted astrological thought. "I´m lonely and want a relationship," I´ll look to their 5th and 7th houses. "I´m struggling with money," I´ll look to the 2nd and 8th.

2: I´ll look to see if there are squares or oppositions within the natal chart connected with those houses, and then the planets making those aspects.

3: I´ll then look for the traditional "malefic" planets and angles to see if there are EXTERNAL factors at work: Is Saturn affecting the native´s Venus if there are money or relationship woes? Are their challenging aspects with thei 4th house if family issues are present?

3: Then I´ll cross-check INTERNALLY with the "major drivers" of the natal chart: the Sun, the Ascendant and where it´s ruler is located, and the moon. If this person has had a history of relationship issues, can I see if they are stuck in negative perceptions about their own personality? (First house concerns, brooding issues in the 12th, self-worth issues with the 2nd, challenges with the ability to communicate well in the 3rd, etc.)

4: From there, I seek to weave the story from the natal chart to the present day, by looking at the transiting planets and what houses they are crossing and what aspects they are making to the natal planets.

This is probably much more process oriented than you bargained for...

i suspect from your question that you were looking for a few clear "markers" in a chart that scream, "I can´t fix myself."

But human beings are just far more interwoven than that.

And that... brings us back to my original post: it IS about philosophy, meditation, etc, because SELF AWARENESS IS EVERY FREAKING THING :)

If you don´t understand how interwoven you are...
If you don´t understand AND EXPERIENCE how deliciously connected you are with the entire Universal ecosystem...
If you believe that the cosmos is Big, Cold, Cruel, and simply out to squash you...

Then you don´t know Who You Really Are.

And astrology can, in fact, help with that. :12:

As a counselor, I look to those so-called "bad" planets and angles, and recast them as opportunities; they become fodder for practices and projects where the Native can work on him or herself with a number of real Things To Do.

And in my experience, virtually all of those actions are designed to lift the shroud from the eyes, the lens that paints the client as Alone, Separate, Vulnerable, Victim, etc.
June 26, 2019 at 17:29
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
I don´t completely disagree with this post, but I don´t completely agree with it either. No, Mars is not always "malefic". It depends on if he is in his domicile or in adversity. It depends on if he is in a day chart or a night chart. It depends on the configurations (aspects) he makes with other planets.

Now surely we must always try to do the best we can with our own chart. However, bad things do happen and sometimes they happen to good people. Often times Mars and other alignment do portend evil. I have to point this out due to the tendency of modern astrologers to always paint a bright future, full of balloons, unicorns and rainbows .

Women get raped. Men get their dicks blown off in futile wars. Children starve in Africa. People fall into poverty and get hooked on opioids in attempt to stave off the pain. We will all grow old one day and succumb to sickness. We will see loved ones die before us. Bad shit happens and sometimes we don´t have control over it. Some things in our chart can be channeled for the good and some things can be tempered..but not all.

The renegade Jungian, James Hillman wrote an interesting book: "We´ve Had A Hundred Years of Psychotherapy and The World´s Getting Worse". He points out that evil is still present despite psychotherapy. I suspect that the same is true of astrology. It can be of use, but it´s not going to rid the world of evil and pain.

Nothing makes me angrier than when I see New Age types gloss over the apparent evils of the world with philistine explanations that it was "karma" at play. Tell that to the raped woman (that it was her fault..she must have done something in a past life). Or feed that explanation to the hungry child who has committed no wrong but was born in the wrong place at the wrong time.
June 26, 2019 at 17:40
(Libra) leorising
Yesterday I was searching about my moon opposite Neptune , I found this wonderful text, it’s all I think about!!!

https://www.astro.com/astrology/…
June 26, 2019 at 20:47
(Gemini) stigmí » pneumadeux
Still mísunderstanding :(
I have really good reason to ask this.
I think you are talking about normal people for whom is growing or transform natural. Yes they have problems but they are "normal" and have no problem to understand and do what change. They are not my goal.
I am talking about those who have problem with everything about selfreflection and process of changing themselves, their habits and so on. They are "normal" or not - doesnt matter - but my question is how are these obstacles in mind to be found in chart. And of course i am searching for "clear marks" or signaturies of these mind difficulties in chart.

I hope this time maybe will understand ^^
So last try ; ))
If not, its ok, thank you for your time ; ) :74:
June 27, 2019 at 06:23
(Gemini) stigmí » ThomasBN
Not my question.

Anyway. Sorry to Pneumadeux for not easy communication with me.... I have different way of thinking and i am waiting some specific information, that is maybe for you not important or visible, but for me yes...

:29:
June 27, 2019 at 11:16
(Scorpio) SpaceChild » ancient_astrology
Just wanted to recognize your reply :15:
June 27, 2019 at 18:23
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Yes :15: that`s my approach to it. I wish more astrologers stop the fear spreading routine, it`s tiring. The world does not need more of that.
June 27, 2019 at 20:12
(Gemini) pneumadeux » stigmí
Are you perhaps referring to astrological indicators of mental disease or retardation?
June 28, 2019 at 07:07
(Gemini) stigmí » pneumadeux
Yes thats it : ) :15:
Mental disorders all types, even if it is not diagnosis - people who have not ability to self-reflection and to change. Or people not able to "control/start" their healing process. Also some fatal body desease.
For example some woman with anorexy, bulimie. Or hard examples with body deseases that are not to heal.
I am really interested in astrology indicators of that mind and action problem. I will be glad if you (or anyone) have some experiences from your consultations or astrology study/practice what is most frequented astrology indicator of blocking healing process....
(It is for me like symbolic puzzle.)

Thank you very much : )
June 28, 2019 at 13:22
(Gemini) pneumadeux » stigmí
Indicators of mental illness in the chart of someone you don’t know is really, really difficult. Since every planet and placement has both a developmental as well as shadow or detrimental side, picking out an indicator from a list and armchair-diagnosing a “mental illness” is just irresponsible.

This is multilayered at best. Repeat…at best.

In harmony with my previous post detailing how I go about evaluating a client / chart, I would be triggered to personality / mental challenges if I saw negative aspects (squares, oppositions) to:

• The chart ruler (the planet that rules the AC) or key planets in the first house (negative aspects from Pluto, Neptune, Uranus, Saturn, especially)

• The Moon (out of balance emotions, real challenges in relationships)

• Mercury (rules intuition, logic, and thinking processes)

• The AC (self-expression issues, confusion between inner and outer self)

• The 12th and/or 8th House(s) — these misunderstood houses deal with secrets, isolation, incarceration (self-driven or otherwise) and "outside" resources and events (other people´s assets, the government, death, sexual issues)

However, if I saw any of these (and which of us haven´t) it would have to be “amplified” in some manner by other placements. Any of these in isolation isn´t enough.

Additionally, trines with powerful, expansive planets (Jupiter, Uranus — which is like Mercury on steroids) to the AC or First House, among other things, which could indicate an inflation of the sense of self, bizzare and unpredictable behavior (hey…is that always a bad thing???) and because it’s a trine is an “unconscious” free flowing energy.

These are but a handful. Any reasonably competent astrologer here could address or concoct a wide range of reverse-engineered “indicators.”

And the last caveat: Not a few of those whom history has labelled “brilliant” or “ahead of their time” were considered troubled, insane, or worse in their own day.
June 28, 2019 at 14:44
(Gemini) stigmí » pneumadeux
Ok....i can draw from this :15:

Thank you for your patience and time :74: :29:
June 29, 2019 at 13:54
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user zodicat, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Was very interested in this topic when I first saw it.

The first thing that struck my mind is the interesting truths that squares and oppositions tell when dealing with synastry readings. It´s once in a blue moon one will see an inquiry pertaining to a relationship that does not involve harsh aspects such as these.

The very basis of a partnership, friendship, etc - whatever type of relationship one may be dealing with - could be described as a merging of two unique points of view to create something greater than either could do so alone.

It makes one wonder if everyone, somewhere along the way, was influenced to consider their dealings with others in a backwards sense - to perceive that which is mutually healthy for everyone´s betterment to be that which is fraught with hardship and misunderstandings, and to see that which is conciliatory at best to be the idealized notion of peace and harmony.

Many centuries ago, romanticism entered in and gave us fairy-tale stories of happily ever after, whereby a joyful pairing was to be the result of a resolution on conflict that had nothing to do with a resolute compromise of the two...


The second thing that struck my mind was, yes, I very much share the views expressed in the topic, though I tend to take it further even, and keyword Venus by appeasement, superficiality, and shallowness. The Moon by fecundity, fickleness, and avoidance. Jupiter by embellishment, dehumanization, and grandstanding.


I tend to think that what is programmed to be perceived to be of benefit and of detriment is influenced more by connotation of language and societal ideologies than of anything else. The illusion of duality plays a large role as well, through which many struggle to see.

Despite any efforts, we as a society are still very much goaded into a lord / servant duality. You can see it in the traditional viewpoints of dignity and debility, whereby planetary influences are described to fit one into the role of being a lord over others or a servant unto other lords.
June 30, 2019 at 10:05
(Sagittarius) Sonny St. James
Sage wisdom. Thanks!
June 30, 2019 at 11:24
(Leo) pixel » ancient_astrology
:15: I agree with everything you said.

Even though I understand both the Pneumadeux post.

Posts are always interesting for all the points of view, because they all contain a part of truth! It is up to everyone, according to personal advancement, to take advantage of it at best.

:17:
June 30, 2019 at 17:31
(Gemini) Iroquois Pliskin
I have Pluto at the very end of the seventh house (less than 1 degree) and I openly admit I am a control freak and am suspicious of everyone.

I never got the 12th house Mars thing. I’m not self destructive at all but the slightest thing than annoys me or irritates me makes me explode with the force of a nuclear bomb and lash out at others.

Because of these two things, I pretty much avoid dealing with other people unless it’s absolutely necessary. I more or less secluded myself from society.

My Mars aspects are Mercury and Venus square Mars. Mars Quintile Saturn and Uranus, Mars sextile Neptune and Mars trine Pluto.
June 30, 2019 at 18:12
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user David Evans, who already deleted profile on this website:
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My favorite aspects are actually squares. They symbolize hard work or something to be earned
June 30, 2019 at 18:16
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » ancient_astrology
System message: Post has been written by user David Evans, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Shit I agree with you there!
You can turn on a flash light, but the dark is still there.


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