Twins - How Does Astrology Account for Differences?

June 8, 2019 at 21:49 (UT/GMT)
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
Twins - How Does Astrology Account for Differences?
Any smart critic of astrology will point out that identical twins, while they have many things in common, usually have a number of differences.

Now how does so-called Modern Astrology account for this? Well, it can´t, and the skeptics reasonable argument will leave the New Age astrologer dazed and sputtering stuff about "karma" or some other nonsense.

However ancient astrology does at least have a response built into its system. It is called the "dodecatemoria". It divides up each sign into twelve subdivisions. Petr has this facility here but I don´t think it´s correct. In any case, you can see the divisions here: https://www.astro.com/astrowiki/en/…

So even small divisions of time can be calculated using this division.

Anyway, one famous Roman in Ancient Rome who happened to be an astrologer as well as a Senator was Nigidus Fibulus. He was asked about twins. So he made an illustration using a potters wheel. He started spinning the wheel upon which was a wet piece of clay. He quickly tapped it twice. To those watching, it looked like he hit the same place twice...but when he took his foot off the potter´s wheel, it was apparent that his taps had hit in two different places. He then went on to explain to the skeptics about the Dodecatemoria and how astrology accounts for the differences between twins.

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June 8, 2019 at 21:54
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Liquidized.Mind.LM3992, who already deleted profile on this website:
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They say even the slightest of difference in a natal chart creates a different person.

Also take into account that no person experiences life the same.
June 9, 2019 at 09:39
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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One way to see the difference is soul`s intention. This is not something you can calculate mathematically or otherwise but as those twins grow up the difference becomes obvious. Each one will act out different manifestation of the same placements, planets, signs etc, because they serve a different purpose in their life journey.
June 9, 2019 at 09:57
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32
I think some of it I noticed with Gemini in the 11th house, with Twins as friends throughout my life time is they are all unique individuals. Identical Twins do have a lot of the same mannerisms and seem to be oriented to the same jobs, money status, and education. They seem to be influenced by their parenting, environment, and often do a lot of things together. Sure they are different people, may dress different, like different foods, and of course it always took me a long time to tell them apart.

Fraternal Twins are more obviously different, which is quite fascinating, since they don´t seem as close as identical twins to me, or feel the need to do the same interests. They seem more independent, than dependent on one another. May again be the conditioning of the environment, culture, and parenting which determines how they interact with one another.
June 9, 2019 at 10:27
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Vanille, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I find this interesting as my crush has a twin but they´re very different, and yet so similar. Idk their birth time, only that my crush is slightly older... I want to find out but it´s creepy to ask (then again, talking about her on forums is far worse if she finds out I´m dead lol)
They´re fraternal but still look alike, unlike some others I met were I was shocked to find out they´re siblings at all... Still, I don´t believe they have the exact same chart as there are major differences in personality/interests and have a different life path.
June 9, 2019 at 17:01
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » Liquidized.Mind.LM3992
Exactly the point I was trying to make. I wonder if anybody read my original post or if it was too long. In any case,
there are a number of tools in Ancient Astrology that add nuance to a sign by breaking it up into subdivisions. There are the Egyptian bounds. There are the Decans. However, there is an even more subtle division using the Dodectamoria which divides up each sign into part of 2.5 degrees. To be honest, while I do use the Egyptian bounds, I have not used the Dodectamoria, as I have not needed to. However, it is claimed to be a useful tool in delineating phenomena, such as the birth of twins.

Of course, all of the above tools were abandoned or just not known about when Alan Leo "recreated" so-called modern astrology. It´s time to bring these tools back. Petr has been kind enough to provide a traditional astrology calculator on this site. Just go to "Free Horoscopes">"Traditional Astrology Calculator" and there you can create a chart with the Decans and Bounds. Unfortunately the Dodectamoria does not work quite right, but that´s no big deal as you can use the wikipedia article I cited in my first post to determine what these are for the given signs.
June 9, 2019 at 17:53
ASTRASTRO-SEEK ADMINSEEK Admin, (Taurus) Petr9 » ancient_astrology
Hi entheogens,

there are actually two different methods to calculate dodecatemoria and each method gives slightly different results:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Hellenistic computation
Let T be a point at degree D of sign S. Add 12×D degrees to the beginning of sign S.
For example, to find the dodecatemorion of Capricorn 17, multiply 17 by 12 to get 204, and move 204° past the beginning of Capricorn. One arrives at Cancer 24. Cancer is the seventh dodecatemorion of Capricorn, corresponding to Capricon 15–17.5°.

Babylonian computation
In an alternative and seemingly older Mesopotamian system, the dodecatemorion of a point in the heavens is computed by adding the degree multiplied twelvefold not to 0° of its sign but to the exact degree in question.
In symbolic terms: Let T be a point at degree D of sign S. Add 12×D degrees to D. Or, equivalently, add 13×D to S


I chose to implement Hellenistic computation, which seems to fit the table you posted (link to astro.com wiki page) ... so I´m curious what doesn´t work correctly?
Can you send me some example(s) where the result is different please?


Btw that calculation is not so difficult and can be done just by hand withou table:
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June 10, 2019 at 04:09
(Aries) astro-flame » ancient_astrology
"Exactly the point I was trying to make. I wonder if anybody read my original post or if it was too long."

They did and some answers are actually right along the line of Modern astrology´s view - less fatalistic and deterministic than Ancient and also strongly influenced by an important development of the first part of the 20th century - psychology and psychoanalysis.

Ancient astrology gave very little attention to "deep internal motivations and complexes" Jung and Freud talked about. Sure, they could describe some general traits of personality but never went into internal struggles and conflicts. Oppositions and squares in the chart were viewed in the context of external influences and events.

Ancient astrology was more focused on the predictive part. Which is why they had many truly great and effective techniques that are semi-forgotten now. I´m with you on that one - it´s a pity... but then, again, somebody working strictly in the field of psychological analysis of the chart would never need them. Jung didn´t pay much attention to them, for sure, which is kind of understandable, given his field of work. Don´t know what was Alan Leo´s deal...

So Ancient astrology found the explanation to the twins via their own tools, and Modern astrology adds in the idea of a personal process of individuation alongside with notions of free will and chart being a potential, not a sentence.

Actually, the idea that "Astra inclinant, sed non obligant" (stars incline us, but do not bind us) is also an ancient one. It just seems to me that it is just as well forgotten by the contemporary followers of the Ancient astrology, as is Dodectamoria, Firdaria, Egyptian bounds and any number of other techniques is forgotten by the followers of the Modern school
June 10, 2019 at 15:02
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology » astro-flame
<<Actually, the idea that "Astra inclinant, sed non obligant" (stars incline us, but do not bind us) is also an ancient one.>>

Well, of course there were debates about this in Hellenistic times. Some astrologers were fatalistic and believed we have no control over what happens physically, but we could change our attitudes towards them. Other astrologers believed that we have more free will.


I suspect that there is still this division among those practicing ancient astrology today. My own belief is that it depends on the individual. A more conscious human being will have more freedom of action. A less conscious human being will have less.

This question of integrating psychology is interesting and difficult. My problem is that it is often tainted with New Age ideas, which I have little respect for.
June 11, 2019 at 01:18
(Aries) astro-flame » ancient_astrology
"I suspect that there is still this division among those practicing ancient astrology today. My own belief is that it depends on the individual. A more conscious human being will have more freedom of action. A less conscious human being will have less."

Definitely agree on that one. I personally feel that while it´s not 100% fated, it´s not ALL free will either. It´s a combination of the two, preferably a balanced one, but not always, of course.

As for the freedom of action in a more conscious approach - for sure. Isn´t that what we´re trying to do here :3:


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