Whats fake?

June 1, 2019 at 23:11 (UT/GMT)
(Gemini) stigmí
Whats fake?
I know astrology about 20 years, but time after time I am still confused and embarrassed about which way of using is most true and fit. There are many ways how to look at it and unfortunately in my case in every system I have planets in other house. In sidereal system, I have another signs. Many of us has same problem.
What about planets? For example pluto was explored recently. There was maybe just only one who decided - it will be Pluto? There are many asteroids that were also explored recently and using same way. There are stars ok - my favourite. There are few points of view - heliocentric, geocentric, topocentric....what about aspects? If i imagine this spatially sun - earth - planets - moon....there are not squares and so on and so on...
Maybe in ancient times were some wise people who observed or read informations about what influence us and how. But now is everything changed. I really don´t know what is growing from "healthy living roots" and what is only fake/illusion.
Is it right to just choose, what fits me better? Even if we don´t know from where is it come?

I am most comfortable with point of view - as I am born on earth and at night, with simple answer what was on the sky to see and what was in other side closer to sun....that is for me most powerful influence...

Than is for me question with ayanamsa. There are another signs on the sky, but spring begin still same ^^ (so spring, summer, winter, autumn influence it).

What do you think about it?
Or did you ever think about it?

I noticed that when i lived some time in some house system which i chose, i began be that person who was described in this concrete house system. :63:
Isn´t it wrong to give up our power to something we can only choose/believe??

Better explain and point is: I really want to find something what is irrefutable and able to use it right....

Sorry for english again...and thank you :68:

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June 1, 2019 at 23:16
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32
He´s your type of astrologer. He loves digging into all those types of questions.
June 1, 2019 at 23:18
(Gemini) stigmí » goldenlion32
Thank you.

(but its not only about sidereal versus tropical....)

And your opinion? What is your path?
June 1, 2019 at 23:24
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32
The way I look at it is Astrology is a tool, a map of or snap shot of the stars. While there are many branches, techniques, chart systems, the stars really don´t change as much the system you use.

While in Vedic I can have Leo Ascendant in one system, I have a Cancer Ascendant in another system they use. There´s some things that change and some things that don´t. And when you look at my 12th house in Western it´s usually Leo Ascendant with Cancer intercepted in the 12th.

I know it´s accurate from the events in my life time and on the North Node Tables, Saturn tables, Jupiter tables.

Especially with having a child that matches up with my 5th house with Sag Sun and Neptune in Sag. We mirror one another´s charts in certain ways.

Anyway, I believe it´s like any other system, method, and techniques we use in Medical and Mental Health. We´re always revamping the systems, upgrading, and some ways some thing get lost, while new things are improved. As well as some things get tainted and distorted.

I believe you have to do the best with what is provided at the time, look at it all for the bigger picture and different perspectives and like pieces of the same puzzle.
June 1, 2019 at 23:48
(Pisces) fishscales
Many layers of life = many layers of astrology?

When I discovered the whole sign house system, I discovered many aspects of my life in my chart that were not accounted for in the Placidus house system.

Some of my planetary positions in the whole sign system made perfect sense... yet so did my planetary positions in the Placidus system.

So what gives?

For me, the whole sign system reflected my outer life more accurately than Placidus, but Placidus reflected my inner life and psychological nature better than whole sign.

So now I look to both, depending on the nature of the question I´m trying to answer.

The site I obtain my "spiritual" information (I prefer to call it important information) from discounts tropical astrology entirely, in favor of sidereal astrology. (That being said, it is not an astrology site, but sometimes delves into zodiacal archetypes and their relationships to consciousness.)

My thoughts on this are that perhaps my consciousness is not evolved enough for me to be able to relate to sidereal astrology. It´s a "layer of life" that I haven´t reached yet.
June 2, 2019 at 06:09
(Taurus) IIyyaarr13
Is your retrograde :154: channeling a star :78:?
Your equal-house :156: is in the ninth house of higher learning, the less evolved :176: stelliums have nothing on you! :15:
You have an inner Psychic who is holding Astrology at a distance prepared always to swear it off!
Summer in Australia begins for all youths with Christmas; An Australian family moved to the San Fernando Valley of California in the 70´s and had to keep their son out of Juvenile Hall (Children´s Prison) by going right back where they came from, because he thought the 2nd & 3rd week of January were all his just as they always had been!
My tenth house does not swallow :173:; It is big, but not THAT big!
Siderealists have a long history with marrying off little :34: girls :45: before they can think for themselves!
The Tarot Readers who think of Astrology as the enemy-divination have just as valid a perspective as all the variants of Numerology! :76:
June 2, 2019 at 07:58
(Aries) ram_goat
You have to seek the wisdom of a situation and avoid thinking in absolute terms.

Also focus on a discipline or approach and learn ONE deeply then compare the rest to it. Use the ONE as your fixed point. You can keep it forever, or switch it for another better understanding later. If you try and compare each system transiently on it´s merits relative to the others, it becomes a lot like ungrounded electricity (earthed, for the Brits..).. voltage fluctuates wildly..

pros and cons will fluctuate as well, using that approach.
June 2, 2019 at 08:39
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Vanille, who already deleted profile on this website:
Tbh whole sign makes no sense to me, nor can I relate to my placements there... I used to think Vedic made sense but my sun is my moon there (so I´ll keep my Gemini traits regardless) same ascendant (so I keep my Capricorn traits regardless) Taurus sun (yeah, I feel very earth, but more Virgo and Cap, a bit Taurus but not enough to be my sun) water is simply lacking in that chart... With a 13th sign makes even less sense, so many people I think are walking stereotypes of their sun, would be a complete different sign... And no way I´m a Sag rising. Draconic is about subconscious, which I do find fascinating... I feel most relation to my ascendant and placements which Capricorn-like traits, so being a Cap sun and moon in my past life would make sense, also a Leo rising, I have a big ego... I´m definitely not a fire rising now but it´s possible that I was in a past life or subconscious. Something may´ve happened that made me more empathic now (hence the strong water moon that´s also my descendant)

So I only believe in tropical/pladicus system, it´s most accurate for me and people I know. Draconic I find fascinating, but I also don´t really believe in a past life... My subconscious mind, maybe...
June 2, 2019 at 12:55
(Pisces) fishscales » fishscales
The last two paragraphs of this brief article regarding the Tropical vs Sidereal zodiac are interesting. Kind of expands on the point of different systems of astrology being used for different levels of experience, or consciousness. The planetarium represents the level of consciousness at which most of us find ourselves, and the outdoors represents a higher level of consciousness at which more of reality is experienced. That´s how I take it anyway:

June 2, 2019 at 19:38
(Gemini) stigmí » fishscales
"Many layers of life = many layers of astrology"
Or many languages of life = many languages of astrology

This is interesting point of view....

I like the best placidus/tropical...maybe because i started with this and it is one of most enlarged...
and I feel related to sidereal because of stars...

But when i read something in astrology, anyway I use most intuition and focus on relationship between planets...above asc/desc or under sac/dcs....and so on....

Thank you...
June 2, 2019 at 19:59
(Gemini) stigmí » IIyyaarr13
Yes i have now nonsense...not only with astrology...propably i am searching for some deeper levels of everything...

What did you mean with my venus retrograde?
June 2, 2019 at 20:02
(Gemini) stigmí » ram_goat
"avoid thinking in absolute terms"

---is for me sometimes pretty impossible. I need to feel meaning of it...
June 2, 2019 at 20:04
(Gemini) stigmí » Vanille
Thank you all for responses :74:
June 3, 2019 at 05:47
(Taurus) IIyyaarr13 » stigmí
Venus moving slowly is bound to have attachments that speeding Venus does not.
In addition to Direct, Retrograde, and Stationary is ´slow´.
Immanuel Velikovsky remembered when Venus was a comet, born of Jupiter and causing biblical events. He was imprinted by bible babble, Venus arrived as a ´personal planet´ for everyone somewhat earlier than actual bible events.
Serennu does not charge $ for showing what is closest in your chart to Galactic Center and Great Attractor in Speed! :6:
June 3, 2019 at 22:32
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user ivorysports, who already deleted profile on this website:
When you try to figure out the master plan of creation and then succeed to fail,that only proves their is a master planner.
June 4, 2019 at 00:00
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
Well, here´s something to think about....in all forms of divination, it is what appears that matters. Tarot. We don´t look at the cards that don´t show up. We look at the cards that do show up. So it was that the early astrologers looked at the planets visible to the naked eye, the wandering planets, the ones that moved. I am skeptical about a lot of what passes for modern astrology. Surely informations can increase and that´s good, but there seems to be a tendency to try to find something novel just for the sake of novelty.

I will make an analogy with strength training, since that is another passion of mine. If you go to a gym, you will often find personal trainers who will try to sell you on some very obscure and novel approach to strength training. It looks shiny and it attracts people who think all that is new is gold. They promise you the world but don´t deliver. It turns out pretty much everything we need to know about getting strong was established a long time ago. It´s just about sticking to the basics. Getting good at them.

I feel the same way about astrology. People pull a new asteroid out of their ass and think it´s the secret. Some fixed star (and there are billions of them) is the solution.

My advice: go back to the basics.
June 8, 2019 at 08:38
(Gemini) stigmí » IIyyaarr13
Galactic Center and Great Attractor, venus and so on....

Can you be more concrete in what you wanted to say to me?
June 8, 2019 at 09:01
(Gemini) stigmí » ancient_astrology
:15: :15:

(and strenght training lol yes i have also this passion...and thats why my trainer is like she is...different...going to basics, to elements)

I always used placid and tropical....as i think this is now mostly enlarged in unconscious field, so it has its importance....if would be sidereal there will be sidereal....if asteroids, then asteroids...
But it is like infiltration....because we are always talking about something we didn´t see...those graphics are not sky and most of us know nothing about physics, astronomy, and so on....and what another fact is, how much we are influenceable and good object to suggestion mainly if we are in process of searching ourselves....in some crisis....
Basics and observation is very important :15:

Stars...yes....for example...my sun lies on Bulls eye and so on...soooo...with my current state of mind everything gets different meaning than before...

I need large view of what is in our "field" and good basics :15: to can separate differences...if not, often loosing sense for me...

Thank you :74:
June 8, 2019 at 17:41
(Pisces) TimeSciences » ancient_astrology
Agree very much with your appraisal and analysis and (Aries) ram_goat´s reply as shown below. ´It is what appears that matters´ With respect to divinatory practices I would add ´and your decision about acting and/or reacting to ´what appears.´ Open ended questions for example aid questioners such as teachers to determine what the person/student being questioned knows as well as the depth of it where the questioning is of a social or psychological nature where there are often no ´right´ or ´wrong´ answers, only a range of probable ones.
I have often thought, and this was as far back as 12/13 years old messing with Astrology that the main reason for the many inaccuracies along with the accuracies that are a part of the history of it are because Astrology only allows us to glimpse a very small portion of all that influences us in the face of the infinite universe. This was long before I knew what the Barnum Foerer effect was.
For any interested, there is some material and explanation for my interest in Astrology posted up in my profile including some movie documentaries that point to accuracies of Astrology and even PhD level analysis by the likes of Percy Seymour (an Astrophysicist) and Michel Gauquelin, PhD who exhaustively quantified the most accurate Astrological aspects that identify those of various professions.

"(Aries) ram_goat
You have to seek the wisdom of a situation and avoid thinking in absolute terms.

Also focus on a discipline or approach and learn ONE deeply then compare the rest to it. Use the ONE as your fixed point. You can keep it forever, or switch it for another better understanding later. If you try and compare each system transiently on it´s merits relative to the others, it becomes a lot like ungrounded electricity (earthed, for the Brits..).. voltage fluctuates wildly..

pros and cons will fluctuate as well, using that approach."
February 12, 2021 at 09:23
(Virgo) lukasdoms » stigmí
are you still searching? I personally think the hipparchos ayanamsa is the most accurate. and i searched online and some indian dude (from astrojazzblog.com) was saying the same thing and in the comments there somebody was talking like "oh you say the same thing as this guru? (3 degrees difference from lahiri) thats crazy this guru was saying the same thing" and this hipparchos one is the closest to the 3 degrees difference.

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