Whole sign vs Placidus

April 14, 2019 at 02:25 (UT/GMT)
(Pisces) fishscales
Whole sign vs Placidus
Hi all,

I have recently started investigating the whole sign house system. Historically, I have always used the Placidus house system. (For an overview of the different astrological house systems, read this article: https://www.astro.com/faq/…)

Some of the planetary house positions may be different between the Whole Sign system and the Placidus system.

I´ve got to say, I was impressed by some of the revelations of the Whole Sign system.

The biggest example in my particular case was this:

Using the Whole Sign system, my Saturn is in the 9th house, with Capricorn on my 4th house. Among other things, the 9th house rules faraway places and cultures, and the 4th house represents home and family.

I was born in the US, but my father was born in Greece. My family on my mother´s side is all Greek, although born in the US from my mother´s parents onwards. We have preserved all the Greek (faraway place /culture) traditions in my family (4th house.) I call my grandparents and aunts by the Greek terms for grandparents and aunts, not the English terms. We celebrate the Greek Orthodox Easter, not the Catholic Easter, our "family cuisine" is Greek, not American, etc. Basically, the family is steeped in Greek tradition, which is a "faraway" tradition, not based in the location of our physical home.

It gets better though. When I was a kid, we moved from the US to Greece. My home became a distant, far away place (ruler of the 4th in the 9th.). We eventually moved back to the US. My parents got divorced and my dad moved back to Greece, where he was born. I traveled to Greece often to visit my dad, and considered it a second home to me. In effect, I had two homes. My Saturn, ruling my 4th house, is in Gemini, which represents duality.

Pretty solid score for the Whole Sign house system, I think.

Now for Placidus.

In the Placidus system, my Saturn is in the 8th house.

Among other things, the 8th house rules sex and I have always had a serious (Saturn) attitude regarding sex. For me, it was not something that should be done casually, or just for fun. If I was going to unite with someone in that way, there had to be a component of seriousness and stability (Saturn) to the relationship. Also, if communication was not good (Saturn in Gemini), I did not have interest in that person as a sexual partner. Actually, let me rephrase that: I could still be physically attracted to that person, and really want to have sex with them, but engaging in the sexual act with them would seem to be a violation of my personal "law". (Saturn).

(I ended up violating my personal law more often than not... I just did not feel good about it...and it always wound up being more trouble than it was worth... Usually what happens when you disobey Saturn... )

I also have a serious interest in occult matters, the hidden motivations of people, and used to have a very significant fear of death, which are all indicative of an 8th house Saturn.

Although the results of my 9th house Whole Sign Saturn placement can be "physically" displayed, and is inarguably accurate, I can also testify that within myself, my 8th house Placidus sysyem Saturn definitely feels accurate as well.

In essence, they are BOTH accurate.

What do you guys think about this, and about these two house systems?

Judging from my above example and some other differences in my planetary placements between the two systems, I want to say that the Whole Sign system may be better at representing the external, observable factors of our life, and the Placidus system may be better at representing the inner, psychological aspects of our life, although I am not 100% committed to this theory yet.

I am eager to hear what others have to say.

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April 14, 2019 at 02:38
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
there is only one astrologer who uses the whole house system in istanbul, first time I heard from "hakan kırkoğlu"maybe the writings may be useful to you. And now I´m a little confused with this. When I look at the chart, there is now sagittarius saturn and uranus in the 7th house ??
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April 14, 2019 at 02:45
(Pisces) fishscales » Snm Str
I know, it can be quite surprising!

You should analyze the placements that are different and tell us what you find.

Does the astrologer you mentioned have writings available online?
April 14, 2019 at 02:46
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
placidus system reflects even the most extreme parts of us,for example; In my 1st house, the cancer month is towards the end of the house, but the effect I feel is more in the 1st house.. The whole house system is located in the 2nd house in the form of a stele and this shows that I can be more fragile about my eigenvalues, and that´s true.. Perhaps they should all be treated as a whole ?
April 14, 2019 at 02:48
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » fishscales
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
Has many accounts on Google, "Hakan kırkoğlu" More twitter accounts active
April 14, 2019 at 03:16
(Pisces) fishscales » Snm Str

In light of the evidence, I am really leaning towards taking the insights from both house systems into account, and treating them as "a whole", like you said.

If one system seemed to totally contradict the other, I would not feel that way, but that doesn´t seem to be the case. I am definitely finding elements of truth in both.

Thank you for the info on the Whole Sign astrologer, I will look him up. :1:
April 14, 2019 at 03:30
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » fishscales
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
Contact Hakan directly
I don´t have much to complain about the Placidus home system, but home systems have confused some to the extent that the home system we choose will determine how we´re dealing with a map from the very beginning. Many students rightly come up with the same question: How do we determine the houses or why there are many home systems? I am not going to discuss these questions in this article but I will make some suggestions instead. I have recently compared the whole system with the whole home system since I joined Rob Hand´s seminars. I do this both in interviews and on new maps. I´m not surprised, as if I´ve always begun to come and go between these two home systems.
A sound within me is that Placidus is already a good enough model (in the meantime, my astrological map is not a single reflection of a physical reality or physical reality, it can take many different forms, sometimes it can be a harmonic map, sometimes it´s a composite, and sometimes it´s a composite. When I say that I don´t have a place to confuse my head, another sound, I think if I tamper with it, I can find something much more robust here. The home sign system (Whole Sign) is not only a simple and elegant model, it is also the oldest home system. As the students know, there are different superior aspects of different home systems, but they also do not provide exactly what we want. Placidus method (a time-based partitioning method) (Meanwhile, the houses move the map space from various reference points, eg ecliptic, (Equal house, M-houses, Porphyrius) according to the volume of the celestial sphere (Kampanus, Regiomontanus, Morinus) or by time ( Alkabitus, Placidus, Topocentric, divisions, etc. Conceptually, the zodiac is always perpetual, while the creature´s infinite all-creation, while the houses are working in the secularization of the map, that is, division into their habitat)), if you go to more North or South latitudes of the world, you you will encounter. This leads to some houses being too large and some too narrow, leading to some signs of interception of houses. That is why the horoscope or two houses that are stuck together are formed.
But in the entire horoscope house system, we can logically rid ourselves of this confusing situation. Of course, the whole horoscope home system may seem as simple as we cannot trust. I fell into this dilemma. However, when we think that astrological maps are in fact a model of perception and different approaches, and when we reconsider the ways we use in map interpretation, we can conclude that it is not always reliable to complicate things. In fact, the whole problem is how we interpret the map. In this context, we can say that the system developed by the Greeks is not at all inferior to the systems we use today, and perhaps even more complex methods on a correct and proper starting point. The different point of view of hundreds of Arabs in the Arabs or medieval / Renaissance astrologers should always raise a question mark for us. One of the things I like and work with in the whole house system is that it does not lose the natural rhythm of the zodiac by combining the signs of the signs with the houses. For example, Başak, the second natural house of Leo, continues in the form of a natural third house Libra, creating an ak overlay ikinci, ie, a natural sort for each sign. Greeks have used the word os oikos mış for the word os home Yunan. In Latin, the word ik domus olarak is replaced by the word, domus o in Latin, when the Greeks pass the word de oikos ik as the place where the planets sit and settle. It has received. Even William Lilly in the 17th century, look for the Aries, the diurnall house of Mars, the wisdom of the heavens for the concept of Oikodespotes.
When this is the case, we must see that instead of home entrance degrees, each sign is actually a place of horoskoba, Sun, Moon and Fortune (Fortuna) create a starting point of its own. Similarly, the Greeks have a secondary map known as the Athla Circle which sees the Chance Point as the first house. Any planet in the same sign with the point of chance will also be located in the same place in this circle. In this respect, the Chance point or lot is not only a grade, but also a da horoscope in of that degree. dil olarak değiştir: TürkçeIt is also seen as ür horoscope “.
When the whole horoscope home system is used, the importance of rising horoscope and peak point (MC) is not lost. The degree of rising horoscope is still a sensitive degree, while MC falls into one of the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th houses according to the situation, giving us a different idea of ​​the person´s orientation to life. As a matter of fact, the desire to see both the rising and peak axes as the main axis as the beginning of the 1st and the 10th house has led us to produce many home systems. This may be true, perhaps wrongly, that leads us to find the starting degrees of intermediate houses.
Two other important distinctions, along with the whole home system, bring significant differences in the way transits and angles are used. Those who follow astrology closely know. Any planet, especially slow-moving ones, lead to a differentiation of new vibrations and events from the moment they change the horoscope. For example, according to the entire horoscope home system, the 10th house in your map contains the Leo sign, and as soon as Saturn enters Leo, it starts to bring up the events that belong to this house. In such a case, according to another home system, even if Saturn is going through the 9th house, you can see this difference. Similarly, the Greeks accepted the transit as long as they passed through an entire sign, not through degrees. In this direction, we see that there is no secondary distinction between the house and the horoscope.. In terms of angles, angles in the Ptolemic system were seen as a relationship rather than being perceived as good or bad. In this way of thinking, there is no angle between the two planets, ie the aversion of these planets is in a state of reluctance. In this respect, the Greeks used the angles in parallel with the houses. In this respect, the 6th or 8th house is reluctant with the rising sign, meaning that it cannot receive light from the rising sign, it is not in the angle, it explains the luck of these houses. Although I have included minor angles in my own astrology practice, I see that these values ​​have a certain value rather than producing the exact result.
Note: In the whole horoscope house system, while the rising tower is settled in the 1st house, the next sign is placed on the second house, and the others settle in the 3rd and 4th houses respectively. While the rising bushing rating remains accurate, MC does not have to be a 10th home entrance. In this case, the 10th house is the 10th sign that comes after the ascension. This situation also indicates the situation of superiority
April 14, 2019 at 03:34
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » fishscales
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
I hope this shipment will help you, "hakan kırkoğlu" na article about the whole house system ?☺
April 14, 2019 at 03:44
(Pisces) fishscales » Snm Str

I really liked this, in particular:

"In this respect, the 6th or 8th house is reluctant with the rising sign, meaning that it cannot receive light from the rising sign, it is not in the angle, it explains the luck of these houses."

The relationship between the ascendant and the 6th and 8th houses represents the quincunx aspect, which explains to me why I have such a hard time integrating my 6th and 8th house energies with the way I project myself (ascendant.) The" light" from the ascendant does not shine into those houses because of the angke, as stated in your quote.

Good stuf. :1:
April 14, 2019 at 04:06
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » fishscales
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
I´m glad the article works! ☺
April 14, 2019 at 04:20
(Scorpio) ancient_astrology
Whole signs was revelatory to me as well. When Venus changed from being in the 11th house to the 12 house, in my case, it made a whole lot of sense and explained a lot of things.
April 14, 2019 at 04:32
(Pisces) fishscales » ancient_astrology
It´s interesting and surprising isn´t it?

I really believe I am going to start using both systems when doing astrological analyses (which are mostly for myself, because I´m no professional), even though I´m probably making my life more difficult by doing so.

I am really curious to know WHY both systems seem to work though, and if they can be used for different aspects of our lives (internal vs external, etc)
April 14, 2019 at 11:26
(Pisces) fishscales » Randomperson
"For me theoretically the Equal House System should deliver most accurate results but that hasn´t been the case"

Yeah, one of my earlier astrology books swore by the Equal House system, but it just didn´t resonate with me. I kind of rejected exploring any house systems other than Placidus after that, but this whole sign system definitely has definitely caught my attention.
April 14, 2019 at 12:03
(Libra) leorising
in my case by the whole house system, my Saturn in Sagittarius is in House 5 and Capricorn in 6, in the placidus system Saturn in 4 and Capricorn in 6, Saturn in 5 is currently matching more with me, I am waiting for the suitors and their long tests
April 14, 2019 at 12:09
(Pisces) fishscales » leorising
"I am waiting for the suitors and their long tests"


I have a feeling you will not be waiting very long though..:3:

And don´t forget to test them too!
April 14, 2019 at 12:14
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » leorising
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
5.Home Saturn can give you the coldness in your love affairs, Men who come into your life can guide you or be older than you.. Are you patient??? ☺ Maybe the last full moon could give you a wife! ??
April 14, 2019 at 12:15
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » fishscales
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
???? I agree with you!!!
April 14, 2019 at 12:19
(Libra) leorising » Snm Str
Wow, I´m too patient.
April 14, 2019 at 12:22
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » leorising
System message: Post has been written by user Snm Str, who already deleted profile on this website:
Then your patience will give you gifts :3:
April 14, 2019 at 20:40
(Leo) SDW
Placidus is the only system that can be right for me, because any other system moves natal Jupiter from my 11th to 10th house, which No Way resonates with my life. I also have Saturn (retro in Pisces) in the 8th, which has been Utter Hell. Apparently, it is the significator of having to re-do a previous life - eventually!
April 15, 2019 at 11:13
(Pisces) fishscales » SDW
Like I stated in my original post, under Placidus, I have Saturn in the 8th, and can definitely relate to your feeling that it is "utter hell." Lol. I also believe it is a very karmic placement. The conviction I have that Saturn in the 8th fits me is one reason why I would never completely abandon the Placidus system.

That being said, my home life, as reflected by my Saturn placement in the Whole Sign system, is a major score for that system, as the accuracy (in my particular case) is undeniable.

I have other planetary positions that vary between Placidus and Whole Sign where both seem to fit.

For instance, under Placidus, my Neptune is in the second house... And I am naturally bad at managing money, probably because I don´t think it is ultimately that important in the grand scheme of things. I am also extremely generous with money to those in need, even if that generosity doesn´t serve my best financial interests. I have to admit though, I have (for the most part) cleaned up my attitudes about finances since I had my son 8 years ago. He does not deserve to suffer the consequences of his father´s careless, devil-may-care attitude about money. Lol.

Under the Whole Sign system, I have Neptune in the 3rd house, and I can relate to that too. My style of communication and interaction with others is based much more on intuition and impressions than concrete, demonstrable facts, or logic. My thinking process can be a bit cloudy, again, mostly because it is based on intuition, impression and imagery, rather that clear-cut concepts. My verbal communication can be a bit murky too, mostly because I assume other people "know what I mean" through intuition, etc, when the reality is, not all people think that way.

I said in my original post that in the case of my Saturn placement, Whole Sign seemed to represent the more physical, tangible manifestations of the placement, while Placidus seemed to emphasize the more subtle, inner, psychological aspects of the placement.

With the difference in the Neptune placements in the two house systems, the situation seems to be reversed.

Regardless of any of this, I completely respect and understand how someone can feel a placement is just not "right" for them.

So, as of now, my ultimate analysis regarding which house system is superior is:

I´ll be damned if I know. :46:
April 15, 2019 at 14:01
(Scorpio) Angelina
So Nodes should change almost in all cases? My Nodes jump from 12/6 house into 1/7 house. I should read more about 1/7 Nodes placement to make a conclusion if I can relate myself to that position.
And my Mercury moves from 2nd to 1st house. But as it is close to 1st house in Placidus as well, I always count 1st house Mercury too and pick things both from 1st and 2nd Mercury.
And my Venus, which is in 3rd, moves very closely to 2nd house. But as I quite strongly feel 2nd house Venus energy in myself, I consider 2nd house Venus traits even when using Placidus.
But, for example, few charts of my closest people change a lot from Placidus to Whole Sign(cause in Placidus they have that case when some houses are huuge and others very small). So now I will have much new info to investigate about their new placements:))
April 15, 2019 at 14:30
(Pisces) fishscales » Angelina
Yes, the Nodes, like everything else, could change house position. Mine move from 4 and 10 to 5 and 11.

I am very glad you brought up the topic of planets being very close to the cusps of houses. Upon closer inspection, the distances between my "new" Whole Sign planet positions and the cusps of the houses they occupied in Placidus seem to be very small.. a maximum of 6 degrees. Most are closer; less than 5. My Saturn is very close to 8th house cusp in the Whole Sign system, which possibly accounts for my current feeling that my Saturn occupies the 8th AND 9th house in a way. (Just what everyone needs...TWO Saturns.. :61:)

I am kind of disappointed I did not notice this whole thing of planets being so close to their "old" Placidus houses when using the Whole Sign system, at least as it pertains to my particular Whole Sign chart.

I blame my Mercury in Aries. :4:
April 15, 2019 at 14:42
(Scorpio) Angelina » fishscales
Yes, I pay attention to planets being closely to the cusps. It fits for me, it fits for my closest people´s charts. So a made a conlusion, that a planet doesn´t orientate so quickly in a new house. It´s like in real life, isn´t it? :D
April 15, 2019 at 14:52
(Pisces) fishscales
Well, it now seems embarrassingly obvious why I have so many planets in whole sign system placed near the cusps of their old Placidus houses.

I have alot of planets in early degrees, 5 or less. Moon, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto, and Nodes. (Wow, that is alot.)

Since the houses in the whole sign system start at 0 degrees of every sign, it makes sense that when my early degree planets are in a different house using the whole sign system, they will all still be very close to their old Placidus houses.

Man, I really do not think sometimes...
April 15, 2019 at 14:59
(Pisces) fishscales » Angelina
"So a made a conlusion, that a planet doesn´t orientate so quickly in a new house."

Hmmm.. I´m not sure I follow you here.

Can you please elaborate? :1:
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