What happens if you would go against your chart?

April 29, 2022 at 19:55 (UT/GMT)
(Scorpio) amandaallansson
What happens if you would go against your chart?
What would happen if you would go against your North Nodes mission/purpose in life along with eventual stellium or sun in areas you would avoid? Would you feel miserable until you would be forced to surrender to your "destiny" through internal and external events and conflicts? Maybe your Saturn return would take care of this?

The real question is how much free will do we really have with our birth chart? Are we slaves to our charts just like we are bound to our soul contract? As in if we do not actively follow it our life will become a struggle and we will feel miserable living it out with maybe even mental issues?

What would happen if our past became so traumatic and our current struggles became too overwhelming to face that we became numb and refused to move forward on our set path? As we went back to our old ways of our south node or by moving back to the location which we used to live which is connected to our south node?

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April 29, 2022 at 20:42
(Pisces) Leo_Ness
Our chart is like our personal map.

It shows how are we meant to live naturally and effortlesly.

Being emotional means great effort to someone but no effort to one whose chart support emotions.

Being disciplined means great effort to someone but no effort to ones with prominent Saturn and so on...

If you go against your path you´ll definitly srenghten your will but you´ll lose the joy of walking this earth as yourself (at functional level) which is the only way that can bring profound happiness and peace.

If you use a pen to slice a bread, you´ll eventually do it but it is not what pen is meant for.
If you use a shoe as a plate, it will serve that purpose somehow but it is better to use it for the foot protection and so on...
April 29, 2022 at 20:58
(Gemini) Mythstical1
If chart promises bad, then it´s of course good to go against, but otherwise I don´t think that you will find a reason to risk everything. If that was possible anyway. I think planets either manifest according to OUR system or the entire universe is rigged.
April 29, 2022 at 21:34
(Scorpio) IceSickle17 » Leo_Ness
I really like how you described this.

When I think about all the different charts for every soul out there, it makes sense why we excel at certain areas and struggle in other ways. Our charts have strengths and weaknesses for sure. No one has a perfect chart. I think going with what flows naturally to us will lead to lasting happiness. For example, say someone is Venus dominant but some people go for this religiously disciplined, self-flagellant behavior that was imposed upon them by others that they felt the need to follow. Well...I don´t think this person would feel all too fulfilled or happy as Venus is about comfort, beauty, pleasure and this way of life goes against that. A lifestyle like that might fit a Saturn dominant person. But overall everyone´s purpose or joy looks different to them and I find that variety beautiful.
April 30, 2022 at 04:02
(Pisces) 1janos
We seem to live through the themes depicted by our charts. Astrology charts describe personal qualities, don´t compel us to behave in certain ways. How could they? They only exist on our computer screens.

For example, the North Node "calls" to adventure into the unknown and unfamiliar, but if there are close conjunctions to it, the calling feels powerful, even fascinating, and irresistible.

I strongly agree with the notion, that astrological charts function like maps. We must not confuse the map with the territory.

From a very pragmatic point of view, it is worthwhile to remember, that 4-5 babies are born every second on planet Earth. That translates to about 270 a minute, and 388000 a day.

Life is not just joy upon joy, and bliss upon bliss. Expecting that is simply immature and imbecile. We as individuals have the opportunity to grow through challenges and actual hardship. These events are represented by Saturnian, Uranian, and Plutonic themes, close squares, octiles, and some close opposition aspects by natal or transiting factors.
April 30, 2022 at 05:20
(Aquarius) RamKrishn108
Very good Question !! And All answers are really amazing!! I am just adding my point of view here:

1. We can always deny or go against the chart if we have enough strength provided by planets especially doing good work which is beneficial to society or prayers. Because here the person gets lot of support and satisfaction without guilt feeling. But going against the chart for wrongdoings will definitely will backfire after certain time.

2.I have an example where a saint (he took in early age) after crossing thirties he left sainthood and married. It didn´t work for him for lifelong. He ended up being single but he made big name for his musical abilities in devotion.

The denial will work if it is meant for one. Especially if one does service of mankind S/he can escape the chart for sure. It is said by SriKrishna in Geeta that only by continuous practice/sadhana with non attachment to self image or family one can come out of fate.

Wish you all the best
April 30, 2022 at 05:47
(Taurus) Novile Circuit
How much free will do we really have?
Many people who had near death experiences say that the major events in our life are destined. Also meeting certain people seems to be arranged. Apparently the only choice we really have is our attitude towards life, we can choose to grow and mature either fast or slow.
But sometimes we can mess up so badly that we die. If the body is not too far gone our soul can decide to send us back, and it looks like for most people with NDE experience, that it gives them a real boost.

Is it harder to follow the charts north node purpose? Will the south node get us into even more trouble?
Again that depends on the life mission. In some lives we decide to take it easy and just have a good time, as slow growth will also do. And at other times we bite off more than we can chew and even following exactly the life plan will be really hard and painful. So if it hurts a lot, that doesn´t necessarily mean that we are not on track. It seems that inviting other souls to kick our ass can be part of the original plan, not just a correction for getting off track.

I haven´t decided yet, if I want to believe that we are here for learning or if it is all an adventure game just for the experience. Maybe both, like in a video game, where you learn to play the game but ultimately its for fun.
If the souls are already eternal timeless perfection, then maybe playing a human is like raising a Tamagotchi? We always want to get to the next level of the game.

P.S. I forgot to add, the NDE people say that the only thing that really matters down here is unconditional love. Doesn´t matter in which way we express that.
April 30, 2022 at 05:50
(Pisces) 11
I also think about his often.

One teacher said something like this - suffering is guaranteed, but happiness is our own choice, if we take it or not.
April 30, 2022 at 06:52
(Scorpio) Graham
A psychic told me that ... after many lifetimes as a Monk in the East, I had reincarnated (in a previous lifetime) as the son of very wealthy parents in the West - with the specific intention of experiencing life as a husband, father and grandfather. That son was well-educated but spoiled/over-indulged by his parents, and became an insufferable adult man-child - who was left standing at the altar, when the intended bride (in a marriage pre-arranged by the couple´s parents) eloped with the man she loved.

Unable to cope with the humiliation of being publicly jilted, this man-child entered a Western Monastery ... thus embarking upon an adult life/path which was completely the opposite of that depicted in his natal map/chart.

Life in the Monastery was extremely difficult for him (because he was on the wrong path), but he stoically endured the hardships - remaining in the Monastery for the rest of his life, and becoming a monk (despite the astrologically-created barriers encountered by being on the wrong path).

Hence, that Soul has reincarnated in the current lifetime (with me as it´s one-lifetime accompanying Ego) - again with the natally charted intention of experiencing life as a husband, father and grandfather ... but this time with the added burden of expecting others to "distort whatever I might say" (because that was the mechanism used - unsuccessfully - in the previous lifetime Western Monastery to make the man-child recognise-and-accept that God did not intend for him to be there).

I have no way of confirming the validity of the psychic´s story ... but it illustrates what I believe happens if the one-lifetime Ego refuses to lay down it´s life (i.e., freewill) for that of the Soul it is accompanying (as mapped in the natal chart).
April 30, 2022 at 08:46
(Capricorn) Joanna Suzanne
For sure we are not meant to check our charts on some website and live by it.

There is more possibilities than that.

From experience I see that it´s definitely better to go against the astrology if needed. If we follow astrology, we are going to spend years waiting for the right transit.

Life will be spent in the waiting room. Wasted time.

Lets say astrology is true, then we have this charts within us. No need to worry about not following our north node.

Do you have any useful interpretation of your north mode? Does it sound true to you? If yes, maybe it´s working and is aligned with your values, then this can be good.

I don´t believe the Universe or karma will punish you for not doing your north node.

First of all how to tell you are not going towards your north node? The interpretation is often so vague, that it means nothing when I read them.

We need to have our values to live by. Spiritual people talk about the path, but we can call it goals. They will change in time, because we mature and change.
April 30, 2022 at 11:06
(Leo) Zephyrin
What you describe at the end can be very common. For many, SN may be so reliable that they don´t want to abandon it but still something feels not entirely wrong but weird, which is the presence of NN.

I have SN in Capricorn in 1st and NN in Cancer in 7th. NN is retrograde.

As I reject to focus on the issues of 7th house and work on them, I feel restless, then become awfully angry because relationships are always pain in the ass and no effort has changed or recovered the situation. I ran in circles constantly.

Past experiences and traumas may not be always favourable for the path of NN.
April 30, 2022 at 14:50
(Scorpio) amandaallansson » Graham
I really appreciate you sharing your story and past life. I feel like your experiences holds evidence of the function of soul contracts and birth charts works. I´ve personally struggled with depression from my teenage years up until this day(saturn opposite moon between 6th and 12th house). This opposition has haunted me my whole life in regards of my work issues of being able to keep a job and being able to handle my work tasks without I´m getting understimulated or unforeseen events or dramas take place. Which I´ve figured out are caused by universal forces intervining if I try to stay at a job which I´m not align with for too long or stuck at the same type of industry which is not align with my purpose. If I would try to escape this opposition I would have two choices. Either I would have to follow my north node and purpose or retreat back to my south node by moving home to my parents place isolated on the countryside, which I were forced to do in the past whenever I had issues with my jobs and couldn´t pay my rent. It was always the easy way out, but it was never the permanent solution cause living there made me miserable since I was stuck living in my south node energies unable to move to my nn without having move to a bigger city so I could feel better mentally with my surrounding. My NN is all about being connected to my environment and work something with communication. I´ve started writing my own books and astrology materials, however those have been only work in progress projects which I´m unable to support myself off for now. Moving back home to focus on my projects didn´t really work out long term due to my mental health and being isolated. So, so far I had to do these labor jobs part time on the side in order to support myself living here. However my health has been declining since the beginning of this year so I´m unable to work as much as I used to meaning that I´m unable to support myself through my work together with a sudden move with a higher rent. So I´m feeling pretty much powerless at this point. It´s hard to find jobs which are linked to my NN and communication without a college degree or previous experience. But I will try to look for translator or audiobook voice recorder jobs cause I feel like there´s no turn back as for moving back home this time.
April 30, 2022 at 15:04
(Taurus) nutelina » Graham
How much did you pay him? Often heard such rubbish from so called experts. Even here its full of such ...

Astrology really works. Bless our solar system I guess.
April 30, 2022 at 17:59
(Scorpio) Graham » nutelina
Astrology does indeed work ... and my natal chart intercepted signs + duplicated houses support what this psychic told me in 1993.
April 30, 2022 at 18:01
(Scorpio) Graham » amandaallansson
Have you noticed that your natal Moon-Saturn opposition and Mercury-Neptune square are connected by Moon-Mercury + Saturn-Neptune semi-squares?

This is a security-seeking quadrilateral figure, manifesting from deep within your subconscious ... and causing you to feel insecure when you venture into the house areas of the OPPOSING hemisphere of your chart (7 to 11, where your SOUTH node is located).

Moreover, Mars is the handle of your bucket shaped chart and 157degs42mins from Saturn ... So, these two planets are connected via a 16th harmonic aspect* - with an orb that is close enough for them to be manifesting as 64th harmonic aspect* behaviour. ... [Note : Actually Mars, Saturn, Mercury and Neptune are all connected via a 16H aspect that is manifesting as 64H behaviour.]

My guess is that you need to focus/work-specifically-upon the issues relating to the Moon-Mercury-Saturn-Neptune quadrilateral and it´s connections to the Mars bucket handle ... rather than upon the general guidance provided by the Moon Nodes.

[ * The 16th harmonic aspect = multiples of 22degs30mins, or 1/16th of the 360degs circle - so, 157degs30mins = 7/16ths. ... The 64th harmonic aspect = multiples of 5degs37mins30secs, or 1/64th of 360degs - so, 157degs30mins = 28/64ths.]
April 30, 2022 at 19:26
(Taurus) Rosincvist » amandaallansson
:151: :194: :161:, :151: :194: :162:, :151: :191: Moon´s node, :151: :192: Moon´s node, are all Moon Wobbles, this is a documented reality transcending any one subject that the Moon actually jiggles at these transits!
Most Westerners presume they are above Astrologically determined prerogatives, which means a shift in circumstance could shed light on what´s changeable!
May 1, 2022 at 08:37
(Scorpio) amandaallansson » Graham
Thank your for your insight! However I would love if you explain the outcome of your calculation a little bit more tangible other than the numbers? I only understood that I should leave my focus from the houses 7-11. But what would your personal advice be based off your calculations about my purpose/career if we would include these aspects you mentioned?
May 1, 2022 at 15:38
(Pisces) Aragatito » Graham
I liked that story, but he asked me then there is no free will, if in the end you are going to return to fulfill your destiny
May 1, 2022 at 16:41
(Sagittarius) Nos sonhadores
things go to shit ... most likey you get sick and all that .... i used to fully ignore the pisces moon sensitivity as a kid and it brought up having flues frequently every year for example + others recognize that you try to be someone else on intuitive level how you act up and shit ... that you ain t simply good in what you try there ... no one so far follows their chart 100 percently ... mankind is not fully awake for that ... not a spectacular thing ... but i say if you can follow your destiny or as you called it the chart you can achive 100 percent health and never get sick i believe
May 1, 2022 at 17:25
(Scorpio) Graham » Aragatito
The story has to be seen in the context of an eternal soul incarnating over many lifetimes to achieve (it´s ultimate goal of) "peace on Earth" ... and accompanied in each incarnation by a one-lifetime Ego, that has the freewill - so is able to choose whether or not to follow the path of the natal chart (which the soul has mapped whilst "in heaven"/between incarnations).

Once incarnated, the only mechanism that the soul has (to persuade the Ego to follow the map) is to make life increasingly difficult for the latter if he/she chooses to not follow the path laid down in the natal chart.

For the Ego, there are no consequences if the map is not followed - because the Ego exists for one lifetime only. However, for the soul, it is a wasted incarnation - because no progress is made towards achieving it´s ultimate goal/purpose of incarnating on Earth (where life is experienced in a physical body).

So ... when incarnated on Earth, the soul does indeed not have freewill. ... And it´s only task is to persuade the Ego to FREELY chose the path of the natal chart, thus achieving the "peace on Earth that passeth all understanding".


I am now 73 years old, and 29 years have passed since that psychic told me the story. ... So, now I can confirm that my current-life career as a professional accountant failed to provide me with the "peace on Earth" which I have experienced as a husband, father, grandfather and great-grandfather.
May 1, 2022 at 18:10
(Scorpio) Graham » amandaallansson
I shall reply to this asap tomorrow.

For now though, my guess is that you should leave your focus from houses 12 to 6 (where your NORTH node is located) ... as the chart seems to require you to "become comfortable with being uncomfortable".
May 1, 2022 at 20:22
(Scorpio) amandaallansson » Zephyrin
My current partner also has his north node in his 7th house but it´s in Gemini. If you don´t mind I would love if you could share some of your experiences from your 7th house NN when it comes to partnerships? How did you handle and experience your relationships in the past? As in how did you perceive your partners and what role did you have in them vs today? Do you have a partner today and what has changed? If not, do you see yourself having a partner in the future?
May 1, 2022 at 20:32
(Scorpio) amandaallansson » Graham
That actually made a lot of sense which you just wrote!

My north node is in the third house/Scorpio and south node ninth house/taurus. Or do you mean that my moon-saturn opposition almost acts as a NN/SN connection in my chart?
May 1, 2022 at 20:34
(Scorpio) amandaallansson » moonlike00
I really find your post interesting since we both share a third house stellium with our NN in there as well and we share similar experiences as well with our purpose. Would love to talk more about our past experiences, struggles and if there´s been any type of work which works for your chart?
May 1, 2022 at 22:23
(Pisces) Aragatito » Graham
May 2, 2022 at 00:40
(Pisces) 1janos » Graham
This is not an easy read.

I am going to describe the profound consequences of the acts of an idiot, whose lack of comprehension of the topic of Psychodynamic Theory and of the German language lead to a devastating misunderstanding and misapprehension of fundamental concepts in English.

James Strachey and others described what happened 40 years after the fact he and his wife Alix, went to Vienna and spent time with Freud in 1920:

"Looking back forty years later at this turning-point, Strachey commented in a ´disarming passage´ to his fellow analysts on his then qualifications as a psychoanalytic candidate, as compared to modern times: ´A discreditable academic career with the barest of B. A. degrees, no medical qualifications...no experience of anything except third-rate journalism. The only thing in my favour was that at the age of thirty I wrote a letter out of the blue to Freud, asking him if he would take me on as a student´."

He continued by saying that, having spent a couple of years in Vienna, “I got back to London in the summer of 1922, and in October, without any further ado, I was elected an associate member of the Psycho-Analytical Society. … A year later, I was made a full member. So there I was, launched on the treatment of patients, with no experience, with no supervision, with nothing to help me but some two years of analysis with Freud".

He concluded wryly that the modern "Curriculum Vitae is essential. Whether it is possible for it to become over-institutionalized is an open question. Is it worthwhile to leave a loophole for an occasional maverick? … if the Curriculum Vitae had existed forty years ago, you wouldn´t have had to listen to these remarks tonight".

The first fateful blunder was, that they decided to translate Freud´s works from German to English without really grasping the depth and simplicity of what Freud established as the foundations of his work. The other devastating factor was their subpar understanding of the German language for this purpose. The third one was their taking artistic licence in translating the original concepts.

In one of his last letters to Freud, Ernest Jones wrote that ´You probably know you have the reputation of not being the easiest author to translate´. Certainly when translated into English first began, ´the earliest versions were not always felicitous ... casual and at times fearfully inaccurate´.

The most ´obvious flaw in this translation was the substitution of esoteric neologisms for the plain German terms Freud preferred´. For example his "I" and his "It" become the "Ego" and the "Id". "the translation of instinct for Trieb [Drive in English] ... thus basing the whole concept on a complete misunderstanding since Trieb and instinct have nothing in common". Anyone who reads Freud only in Strachey´s English translation cannot understand Freud´s concern with man´s soul".

While accepting that "Strachey´s translation was also an act of interpretation and it has not been hard to find spots where he went astray", the fact remains that "Freud was delighted with the work Strachey succeeded in doing"; whilst even into the twenty-first century "the German editions have relied on Strachey´s editorial apparatus, which should be a testimony to what he accomplished".

Where Strachey and his wife succeeded admirably was the very thorough editing and referencing of the works.

The most devastating mistake is related to the casual substitution of the German personal pronouns to the Latin-based seemingly sophisticated anglicised alternatives.

Ich - which in German - is simply the First Person Singular pronoun: I.

Es - which in German - is simply the Third Personal pronoun: It.

The ultimate aim of Psychoanalysis according to Freud is to amalgamate/integrate I with It.

This is the most profound statement that Freud has ever made. Please notice the similarities between this and the translated Sanskrit "I am That" or go all the way and make the pronouncement like Nisargadatta Maharaj: "I am".

So, due to his profound and devastating mistakes, today we are stuck with these totally useless, pretentious, and vague concepts, that are utterly misunderstood by members of the English-speaking public and professionals and all of those from other backgrounds, who have no grasp of the original concepts.

The Super-Ego doesn´t have its roots in Latin. The original term in German was ´Uber Ich´. That means: above the self or conceptually more correctly: ´Idealised Self´. What I aspire to, or desire, or expect of myself, or should be.

So the primary aim of therapy, personal growth, or personal development is for the sense of ´I´ to integrate with the sense of ´It´ or ´other´, as guided by the optimized self-image.

This is a major ´accomplishment´ and let´s face it, regrettably, the vast majority of the population never gets near that level of personal growth.

So, to see and relate to the Ego as something evil, wicked, dirty, undesirable, to be wiped out, or overcome, is based on a silly man´s - and his wife´s - misunderstandings of the insights of a genius.

To reach a mature level of Ego development is highly desirable and fundamentally important.
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