Where is the Sidereal Pluto in mundane astrology?

April 20, 2022 at 12:27 (UT/GMT)
(Leo) cubic
Where is the Sidereal Pluto in mundane astrology?
Tropical Pluto is easy to observe:

With the arrival in Saggitarius in 1995, the music changed from emotive, sensual, deep to upbeat, soaring, exploratory, and not so focused as during Scorpio Pluto on sensuality, dark themes (literally too) and so on.

Scorpio´s verve, depth and sophistication was replaced with Saggitariu´s happy go luckiness, exploratory desires, high energy and speed.

Just compare Christ Rea´s video to "Road to hell pt2" from the late 80s to Madonna´s late 90s "Ray of Light". Scorpio vibes were absolutely not in vogue starting from 1995 to 2008.. there was just no interest in that kind of dark stuff, it was all about that positivity or firey self-expressiveness, for the most part. No Boys II Men stuff would fly... ok maybe a bad example.

Lots of themes about traveling, getting from point A to point B, religiosity, the religiosly motivated 9/11 attacks etc, and in general clashes between frameworks happened on micro and macro levels during that time, for instance between music genre fans, video card brand sympathizers, Linux vs BSD vs Windows etc. Stuff was serious, people were looking for those Saggitarian bloodbaths.

Unexpected, a bit crazy behaviour in public places was appreciated (unlike now in Cap).. escapist themes about being somewhere else or just straight escaping work could be seen also in movies/videos. Now in Cap this is looked down upon.

We struggled with questions of faith, losing it, regaining it etc. 9/11 and what happened after that changed our ideas about the international framework we thought was in place, the shared morals etc.

The Internet was often a debate fest, where people would post very long topics and replies, battling it out on all kinds of questions.

"The Matrix" is a cornucopia of Sag themes, really the prime movie to go to, "Titanic" was all about that SHIP, the traveling etc.

Pluto in Capricorn (2008-) led to cutting down the non-profitable ideas born during Pluto in Saggitarius, austerity, empowered governments, big companies, we all got filled with Capricorn-earth themed desires like luxury, climbing the hierarchy, monetary success etc. Free services aimed at fasciliating self-expression or just free publishing on the internet shut down gradually due to lack of profitability.

We all got a bit standartized, and we don´t debate too much now or even show our preferences, so we don´t lose potential busisness or get in stressful trouble. We see it as not worth it. During Pluto in Saggitarius it was not so.

Time tested, old things are on focus in Capricorn from how people used to live to old music. Experimentation ceased and risk taking decreased.

You could find Pluto in Cap hierarchical struggles, and politics "Game of Throne"-y style in all kind of places including in unusual places like Sci-Fi. "Inception" was all about grabbing that big company ultimately. Not about some stretching/breaking the limits stuff like "The Matrix" was.

That´s where the intensity was/is still. The workplace and doing jobs became a theme also. That wouldn´t have been so interesting for the mass public in Pluto in Sag.

So for me evidence for Tropical Pluto sign change is there, very easy to see evidence in the changes in art themes, and aesthethics during the years, and in other places as well. I could go on.

Tropical Pluto in Saggitarius was 1995 to 2008.

Sidereal Pluto in Saggitarius was 2005 to 2020.

So where should I look for its effects? What should I look for? I´m super curious because Pluto is such an influential planet, that there must be something to observe to the Saggitarius significations from 2005 to 2020, when it comes to Sidereal Pluto, but what?

Hopefully I will have time to reply.

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April 20, 2022 at 12:51
(Cancer) ZeinaZ

Very nice observations! I´m looking back in my memories when the shifts happened, and it fits with what you provided.

I don´t know much about Sidereal, and looking forward to anything about that.

Best regards and thanks for sharing.
April 20, 2022 at 12:57
(Taurus) Rosincvist
I´ve said it before and I´ll say it again Sagit Tarius is closer to :99:-sign than Saggy Terius! The folks who got a feel for :160:s transits got the hell out-of-here for the purpose!
The Sidereal/Vedics call the 1781, 1846, & 1930 planets "shadow planets"; A more interesting term would be the oxymoronic "Black Suns" because four planets achieve balsamic phase with their help!
April 20, 2022 at 13:30
(Scorpio) OS*
imo this is very general and not everyone will relate to these events you´ve describe.

Outer planets aren´t considered in Jyotish astrology and aspects aren´t the same from (sidereal) Vedic compared to Tropical. for example, Mars will aspect 4th 7th and 8th. I wouldn´t consider this with Pluto. . .

but I think western tropical could be used to analyze mundane astrology.
April 20, 2022 at 13:47
(Leo) cubic » OS*
"imo this is very general and not everyone will relate to these events you´ve describe. "

I´m fine with that, we have to start from somewhere, this was just a quick and dirty version of what I have in mind. I can go into detail about the very evident shift in movie themes, that are very Scorpionic from 1984 to 1995, which is a bit less subjectively debatable than the music aesthethics, energy and tone shift for instance, but the topic would be too long and exhausting then.

Whoever relates, relates. That´s what I see. For me these mundane effects exist and are related to the significatoins of the signs in Tropical..

Outer planets aren´t usually recognized in Jyotish, that´s true, though Kapiel Raaj seems to recognize them, but the planet obviously exists, so I´m curious if anyone has made observatins related to Sidereal movements of this planet through the signs or even the Nakshatras.
April 20, 2022 at 13:50
(Scorpio) OS* » cubic
"though Kapiel Raaj seems to recognize them, but the planet obviously exists,"

really ?!! please share the links where he uses outer planets :1:
April 20, 2022 at 14:05
(Leo) cubic » OS*
Sure! Links send through PM to keep the topic on topic :4:
April 20, 2022 at 14:09
(Scorpio) OS* » cubic
thought the topic was Sidereal Pluto but ok. lol
April 20, 2022 at 14:54
(Leo) cubic » OS*
I´d like it to be focused on the effects of Sidereal Pluto in mundane astrology, so I changed the topic title a bit to restate that :4:
April 20, 2022 at 15:03
(Scorpio) OS* » cubic
No worries. :3: also watched the links you send. KRS, Kapiel Raaj doesn´t use the outer planets, or Pluto.
April 20, 2022 at 21:05
(Virgo) rohini moon
I think the easiest way to ´see´ it, personally, is to look at Sagittarius ascendants that you know either personally - or otherwise. And obviously make sure you´re looking at sidereal sag risings. so pluto would have been transiting their 1st house during those years - 2005-2020.. pretty easy to see, in my opinion - especially if you knew them in close proximity.

Ones I knew were a lot more insane during those years. just my two cents for whatever it´s worth.

also, 2020 is when pluto entered capricorn - sign of the government - sitting with transting Saturn... and out came the CV/pandemic - which led into many different things. Pluto+Saturn the breaking down of the gov´t and restructuring it into something... ´new´

I dunno, clear as day to me , that sidereal shows this.. pretty accurately
April 22, 2022 at 08:33
(Leo) cubic » rohini moon
I´m really only about external world effects of Pluto in this topic... that´s all I care about.

Yes I do see the Pluto conj. / opp Saturn as guaranteed time of worldwide anxiety, seems it´s often enough leading to pandemics the last 100-ish years, except for the one in 1947, which led to the partitioning of India for instance.

The 2020 conjunction happened in 28 Saggitarius in Sidereal
In Tropical also the conjunction happened but in Capricorn.
There was also Jupiter conj. Pluto that same year

So I don´t see as 2020 as good data point for discerning this, too many events that year. I need something more clear, over time etc.

Perhaps 2009 to 2020 would be it, since Tropical Pluto was in Capricorn then, and didn´t overlap with Sidereal Pluto´s sign which was in Saggitarius for that time.

I guess one can say that ideology and propaganda was brutally utilized for power games then and attribute it to Saggitarius, though the motifs are rather Capricorn, but when was that not the case in history... though yes the intensity was new level-ish. Now that Sidereal Pluto is in Capricorn for 2 years, I´ve seen no drop in that activity.

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