Isolation/solitude in chart - Discussions, questions

(dragonfly) Hi stigmi,

Mercury in your cosmogram is intercepted, blocked in the 6th house, but because it is placed in the sign of the Gemini, you nevertheless internally feel the need to communicate like every Gemini does.
Also, the ruler of the 3rd house, Neptune is located in the 12th house, the house of isolation and is also intercepted.

stigmí » (dragonfly) Thank you...

So this is my curse? Just to learn to live with it?

(dragonfly) » stigmí I have no doubt that interception sheds important light on the difficulties we sometimes face, which is why Placidus seems more appropriate to me than the whole house system. Unfortunately, I have no idea what can be done about it, but I want to believe that there is some way to deal with it, because Mercury in Gemini is an excellent placement, and there is a lot of potential in such a position.

I personally try not to see difficult aspects as a curse, but as a challenge we must face and I want to believe that with a little bit of work and self-acceptance we can improve our quality of life. At the same time I think it is important to think realistically. You´re at the age I am, and no matter how hard we try, we´re not going to suddenly change in any direction we want. It´s just not possible.

Joanna Suzanne » stigmí Placement in astrology is not making you do anything.

Feelings of isolation cause suffering, as we are naturaly searching for connections. This is a basic need of human. Things can be better for you. Reasons of problems are complex, but you don´t have to solve all at once. You are okay and enough already.

You will connect with someone.

From experience I can advice you to not listen to astrologers and psychics too much. I had wrong birth time and I listened to terrible predictions, then I got the right birth time and chart was different. All sadness and dispair was in vain. It´s just a Barnum effect.

If you are worried and afraid of having problems in social life you will find placements that confirm that. I can find you a positive things in your chart too.

It is not the best way of learning yourself. Much more you learn in the experience, when you are in contact with the reality.

Perhaps your environment was or is hostile, you may have some issues or there can be a lot of reasons. It can get better, just do not believe in silly stuff like a curse or karma. Maybe find a therapy. Something that works.

Joanna Suzanne » (dragonfly) You are just 40, many years ahead of you both. Read more about neuroplasticity. Your brain creates new neuronal connections all the time, it means you still develop, still adapt and learn.

(dragonfly) » Joanna Suzanne Joanna but I agree with you. You are aboslutely right that changes are possible, but even without astrology just referring to common sense, you must admit that they are possible within a certain degree. You don´t suddenly make an introvert into an extrovert ... or do you think this is possible?

Joanna Suzanne » (dragonfly) I agree with you on the fact of having less choices when we are getting older. When we are younger and the whole world with possibilities is on front of us it can be difficult time. Honestly I experienced a relief, when I narrowed my opportunities down and I chose something.

Sure, there is extraversion and intraversion and we are all on the spectrum. Some are more intro, some more extraverted and it is not changing. However being introverted doesn´t mean being isolated. Has nothing to do with it. You can be introvert and have meaning connections, you can even know many people. It is about spending the energy. Extraverted person will gain energy from a big group, introverted will be exhausted. Will gain energy in a smaller group, in the presence of people they know and will need time alone.

Nobody is meant to be isolated.

We are made to have friendship and love in our life. Everyone deserves this and I don´t care about planets.

(dragonfly) » Joanna Suzanne "However being introverted doesn´t mean being isolated."

Of course not, and that was not the point of my comment.

You know, I understand your frustration. If I could take a step back, I would never get into astrology. So far, weighing the pros and cons that astrology has brought into my life, the cons are more numerous.

There are people who have a sense of determinism and some sort of fate. I bet that for them the discovery of astrology comes with a sense of relief. I was born with the feeling that I can do anything... and I can change anything I don´t like. The more resistance I faced from those around me, the greater my determination was. Seeing my cosmogram, I suddenly saw frames in which I was moving and it was one of the worse experiences of my life. And not because my natal chart is particularly difficult. To be honest it is not. It´s just that there is a frame that determines my life to some degree. To what extent is still an open question for me. I comfort myself that certainly to a lesser degree than some astrologers think.

Like you, I am very distanced from the concept of karma, reincarnation, etc. I also find it difficult to believe that we have no influence on anything, because that would mean that life is a complete farce.

stigmí » Joanna Suzanne I think there is some misunderstanding.

I am not using astrology for excuses or causes to my problems. I am using to better understanding and helping to go through.

Thats why I asked "am I cursed"

I am searching for steps how to deal with this, if it is just period in life, some transits, or some way of my nativ settings...and how to understand it...how to work with it...

Yes i agree, isolation mean nothing if you feel it good...and for me it is not good...my problem is understanding, conversation, even with very close people...it was not always like this...but these days it is for me very annoying and uncomfortable...

Thank you both

stigmí » stellium12 “ You may be isolating yourself subconsciously not realizing you are protecting yourself.”

Thats interesting...and thats something I can try right now
My feeling is telling me, that it could be right*
Thank you very much*

viv Hello Stigmi

You have a very focussed chart so I’m guessing you are expressing yourself in some discriminating (Mercury) way through work?

The only immediate thing that comes to mind is that all planets, except the setting sun, chiron and south node are above the horizon, giving you little access to your own feelings and sensory experiences, not that you don’t have these, but they are not an absorbing focus, and as a result you don’t have a fund of endless chit chat about what it felt like when you stubbed your toe because your thoughtless neighbour moved a paving stone and you were in a hurry because etc etc ! Maybe we should all be grateful for that!

But right now you are finding your wish not to communicate superficially a bit isolating.I agree with the comments about maybe having a 12th house moon and needing time alone. I wonder if you are zoning out when you are alone? There is nothing wrong with rest! But beyond this there is a lot going on in the world and I think quite a lot of people are spending time in other layers of their Soul with out necessarily bringing much back into awareness.( I personally believe we are connected with all kinds of people and places at other levels and sometimes the pull to be elsewhere is apparent.) If this is perhaps happening doing some dreamwork or simply journaling will help you bring some experiences to conscious awareness. That helps with feeling purposeful and grounded and also would give you something to share if you choose to.

I am also just learning about Hellenistic Astrology including the technique known as profections which suggests each planetary energy gets a special chance to shine for a year once every 12 years. I actually believe we can call on any planetary energy at any time, however this technique is also interesting as it implies we are offered something extra “gratis” as it were.
.. so you have just been through a Mars, Aries, fifth house focus ( profection) and this year, according to this technique, you move into a sixth house Venus ruled Taurus focus, so think health, enjoying what is beautiful, nature, maybe massage, beautiful textures, nice food, treat yourself a bit and be grateful for health. These are simple themes about being physically present that you can share as in conversation too.

In 2023 the focus shifts into Gemini and goes through the next six years there above the horizon emphasising each of the planetary energies in your chart so I think you can expect a flowering of your talents.
Let me know what resonates Best Viv

11 I’d read your moon as being in 12th house.
Gemini craves mind stimulation, so you miss that , while being on your own.
+ you’re born on full moon, it adds to inner conflict where needs and wants are different.

tomdos Hi, my observations:

In Regiomontanus, which I find most accurate, Your Moon is in the 12th. That alone is something to consider. The Sun – Moon opposition is pretty accurate and strong. Your Sun is Gemini-oriented, your Moon, however, seems not to settle with that. Being in the 12th house AND being Sagg, your Moon wishes for something deeper that can only be found within.

Also, your ASC is also Sagg and is very close to Galactic Center (GC). In my opinion that may be very important. It may have this gravitational effect, pulling you from worldly matters to something deeper, while your Gemini Sun refuses to deal with this level of existence and you suffer. I guess you must have some very interesting dreams that reflect this. My own experience: I have both IC and Moon on GC in Sagg and I suspect it to be crucial in my life, and the effect only grows with time.

Then there is the neurotic Virgo Mars, which does not know who to side with (Sun or Moon), which promotes confusion, detachment and energy leaks.
Finally, Sagg Neptune in 12th vs. Gemini Mercury on DSC is very similar issue as the Sun – Moon oppsotion and supports the discrepancy.


To sum up, it seems to me that the aformentioned aspects of your chart are not satisfied with you being „just“ a Gemini person and force you into growth, into wholeness, whether you like it or not. Seclusion is probably neccessary in the process. You should hear out the call, not fight it.

Try to consider that maybe you misunderstand the dream about spontaneous conversations and interactive sharing. Maybe it is a need of soul that should happen on a different level than you realize.

Spiritual person is always alone, but never lonely.

viv » Joanna Suzanne I’m just reading this conversation and want to add that I think we have fewer physical choices as we get older as after all we have already made choices about career, relationships, where to live etc and there are consequences for all theses choices that shape outer circumstances. I do think however, that as we get older we have INCREASING choices about where to place awareness! Spiritual freedom increases!

As an example I was surprised, that although I still have a long ladder, I didn’t want to climb all over a two storey roof last year to clean gutters as I once did barely without thinking. I think more about what I want to do physically nowadays because I can’t work and go to the pool and swim in the ocean and go for a walk and garden and write or make art, and go dancing, and meditate, and do the laundry, cook, do accounts etc and spent time with friends and family, and study all in the same day! ... each requires something of my energy which is now not as overflowingly abundant as it once was, yet as outer obligations become fewer, I can choose what I take on and why. Viv

Joanna Suzanne » viv I related to that.

Noticed similar thing and it´s liberating to choose less actions, focus on something, say ´no´ more often and this way we are not running constantly busy with meaningless stuff. It depends on the person of course.

viv » tomdos I found your observations very interesting Tomdos and pretty much in sync with mine. Mars in Virgo though can be discerning not always neurotic! I like “a spiritual person is always alone, never lonely.” Viv

Zephyrin Your 8th house stellium has a role in it. I haven´t seen an extroverted, talkative person who have 8th house stellium yet and we don´t like shallow, unnecessary conversations. For us, isolation is a coping mechanism against the stupidity and mediocrity of social interactions. As a Gemini perhaps you don´t like that kind of talk and you feel they waste your energy and time.

Sun-Mars and Mars-Moon squares may give you a hard time expressing your feelings, thoughts and other stuff. They give social anxiety and sensitivity in relationships.

stigmí » viv "I wonder if you are zoning out when you are alone?"
- well, I think, that I am very often in this state of mind...my perception of world is without borders, very wide, mainly when I loose my focus...I wrote earlier poems...and yes writing is for me better for catching thoughts and for introspection...but also this is for me difficult right now, a little bit, as I am learning this again...

"you move into a sixth house Venus ruled Taurus focus, so think health, enjoying what is beautiful, nature, maybe massage, beautiful textures, nice food, treat yourself a bit and be grateful for health."

This sounds very good Thats very good point...it is calling me to this...nature, massage, food...care of myself and being physically present

stigmí » tomdos "pulling you from worldly matters to something deeper"

Yes always...honestly - I dont feel like gemini at all...just my lack of concentration and focus...and ability to communicate easy at work is gemini stuff and to find informations, that cant be easily found...

And unfortunatelly I have not (or dont remember) dreams already few years...I have not peace even at night...

"Maybe it is a need of soul that should happen on a different level than you realize."
-This caught my interest...I am waiting for this

And earlier I felt lonely...but now - I just dont want to loose those who are in my heart...connection with real world is for me hard...

stigmí » Zephyrin "Sun-Mars and Mars-Moon squares may give you a hard time expressing your feelings, thoughts and other stuff. They give social anxiety and sensitivity in relationships."

Yes this is killing combo...

And as 11 wrote "inner conflict between needs and wants"



Thank you all

tomdos » stigmí Seems to me like you are on your way to redefine what is the "real world". World around you? Nah. World is just a result of your inner setting. It changes according to how you percieve it. For shallow person the world is shallow and vice versa.

The isolation you feel and the inability to connect may be truly a result of your effort to cummunicate with the old / partial image of the world, the one you should let go, or rather transform. But beware: I am not saying you should replace one with another! You should rather build upon it. You need to conjunct the Gemini Sun and Sagg Moon into one, new, more whole and full perception of yourself and thus of the world. While Moon is maybe pulling you away, do not let it happen. Quite the opposite: the Moon needs to participate on your Gemini Sun matters. But, on the other hand, the Sun needs to participate on your Moon´s justified desires for something deeper and spiritual. After all, on a currently remote level, they both want the same thing, you just cannot see it, because you live "either / or" paradigm. Do not give up on any part of yourself, even if it does not satisfy you, scares you or lets you down. It is necessary part of the puzzle.

As for the dreams - you definitely have them, you just do not remember them. As far as I know not remembering dreams is just a result of long process of neglection leading to detachment and suppression. Give it a time, try to recall them every morning, even if it is just a feeling in the morning. Be open, pay attention. The unconsciousness will react. Also you may start with the dreams from years back that you can recall. Relive them in your mind to help the process.

Do not wait for a miracle, be proactive, put your insecure Mars into a decisive action at last! He is the tip of the scales.

Anne Marieke I have no conclusive answer as Im still learning, but I feel same way and it will be interesting to see/learn from your question and the answers people are giving and see if there are similarities in our charts or where I can learn from. So thank you for putting up this question. :)

Im a Saggitarius so Im the opposite of Gemini, even that, I think, can give information. My soul Gemini ex was exactly 6 months ahead of me, we are like 50% equal, 50% total opposite.

DrivenByTheStars Hi Stigmi,
I agree with a few things that people have said on here. But not many people know or pay much importance in Asteroids. I saw your asteroid Karma in Virgo in 8th house , and it squares your Mercury (6) as well as , your Neptune (12).

I see this Asteroid as main theme of the lessons you have to go through in life ( why you are here) . I have Karma in Virgo in the 12 house and I am isolated , feel cursed, and far from everyone. On the other hand, I feel blessed, because I feel that I am protected from being hurt or being bored by many stupid people. I feel like I don´t fit in and it´s lonely.

I am not a pro on asteroids, but I think that what seems a curse, can be reversed , it´s a process in self-reflecting and figuring out what is wrong and what needs to change. Why do you think you are this way? Look at your past? Look at your feelings in present moment. I didn´t read all the previous messages that were posted however, you are more complex than you think. You said you have no interests... but you are reading astrology right? Can´t that be an interest? Maybe diving into Astrology learning slowly ...I am sorry I couldn´t be more helpful. I am still learning my self. Your biggest lessons involves communication ... You got this!