Pluto in 12th House

December 24, 2021 at 02:59 (UT/GMT)
(Cancer) alphaviolet
Pluto in 12th House
Hello, I am new to this site. I was wondering if anyone else has Pluto in their 12th house and if you have any advice on that experience. I am also a Scorpio Ascendant, my Sun, Moon and Mercury are in the 8th house and Mars and North Node in the 4th, so I got a lot of water house placements happening. I can very easily pick up energies and tell a lot about who a person is the moment I meet them. I can feel myself going through a transformation right now ( a dark night of the soul, if you will) and I would really just like to speak to someone who has gone through similar experiences. Any words of encouragement would be much appreciated. Thank you.

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December 30, 2021 at 15:31
(Virgo) Astrooo
Hello,

Before answering your question about Pluto H12, I am going to triturate your astral chart because it is very "exciting" for several reasons.

1 / your astral chart is in perfect harmony with your life path number (the 8) . It allows to highlight the challenges that await people with the 8 as the path number.

2 / The aspects between your different planets are very clear. Much less clear are the ways to sublimate these energies.
Discovering them is all the more exciting.

*************

1 / LIFE PATH NUMBER : 8

The challenge for "8" people (i´m 8 too) is twofold:
CHALLENGE 1
- to circulate our energies from bottom to top and from top to bottom.
// Down / up = body / mind
// Down / up = sex organs / brain
// Down / up = confront ourselves with our shadow areas / breathe the pure air of the peaks
// Down / up = being Persephone = Spending time with our Master Hades, provided you come to the surface to climb to our highest point. And understand that reaching the top is the exact point where we will have to plunge back to our "hell" for a new metamorphosis (like when we reach the highest point of a roller coaster)

CHALLENGE 2:
Channel, materialize the energies to progress in our human condition for which we have been endowed with a body.

We have to put our sun at the intersection of 8, imagining that our sun is a water mill wheel.
A water mill wheel = converts hydraulic energies into mechanical energies.
8 = H8 = House "Water" (like H4 / H12, but we will come back to this later).
This mill wheel, our sun, will allow us two things.
1 / move horizontally = manage the "time" aspect, fundamental to our human condition
2 / allow us a vertical expansion = manage space = grow

==> 1 + 2 = the Cross, Time-Space synthesis = Human condition

Nota:
8 = 4x2 = 4 x (Matier/Spirit) = (Fire/Earth/Air/Water) x (Matier/Spirit)
12 = 4x3 = (Fire/Earth/Air/Water) x (Matier/Spirit/Spirituality).
I´m preparing my answer for Pluto H12 scorpio ^^


To illustrate the challenges of the 8 related to your astral chart, I will first study your ability to meet the Other and to concretize this meeting through the circulation of energies.
This will be the subject of a future message.
Below, your theme with the symbolization of 8 and the teasing around the question
´How AlphaViolet meets the Other and how does it manage the energies generated by this meeting?´
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December 30, 2021 at 15:57
(Libra) Daneel
I don´t know if this helps, I´m not a Pluto 12th House but my chart is filled with Water, Scorpio and 8th House. I think I understand what you mean under dark transformation. If we´re talking about the same, self expression like poems and hanging out with people with more positive attitude usually helps. Trying to ignore it and letting it devour you is a no go.
December 30, 2021 at 16:35
(Cancer) alphaviolet » Astrooo
This is all starting to make a lot of sense to me. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! The energy circulation seems to be something I need to work on. I feel as though I have some blockages and I get caught in the trap of thinking too much. I feel as though I have suppressed a lot of my feelings. I can remember things in detail but the way I feel about them- there seems to be a disconnect there.
December 30, 2021 at 16:37
(Cancer) alphaviolet » Daneel
Yes! I definitely have noticed myself being drawn to people with more positive attitudes lately. I used to get mixed up in toxic situations and give those people power over me. I feel like I am beginning to take my power back.
I wouldn´t be anywhere without music and creativity. That´s helped me so much to express my feelings.
December 30, 2021 at 17:20
(Virgo) Astrooo » alphaviolet
You are welcome.

And don´t worry about this feeling of blockage, in the next episode of the adventures of Alphaviolet, you should realize that you have all the tools to overcome this blockage and even sublimate it.

A little game for an "8 ´woman while waiting:
// 0-8 years = 8 x 1 (H1 / Aries) = the power of life, personal affirmation
// 8-16 years = 8x2 (H2 / Taurus) = development of the body (physical differentiation between girl and boy, puberty), first relationship to money (pocket money, savings in the piggy bank), sensual relationship with food (the cooked dishes of our mothers and grandmothers)

I´ll let you have fun with the other multiples of 8.
and most particularly 8x4 and 8x5.
December 30, 2021 at 18:02
(Cancer) alphaviolet » Astrooo
Wow, this actually makes perfect sense to me! That would mean the theme for me right now is Leo/5th House. I have started to focus on myself, creativity and my career after exiting a long term relationship with a cancer moon for 7 years. The parallels seem to be spot on.
December 31, 2021 at 11:41
(Virgo) Astrooo » alphaviolet
In this episode, I´m going to study your way of bonding with your environment and the sensations you get from it

For this, we can observe the following points:
Like everyone else, you will use the Asc-Dsc axis to meet the Other.

With you, this axis is Scorpio / Taurus = Spirit / Matter

Scorpio = Pluto + Mars
Taurus = Venus
Note: Libra = Venus too
H11 Libra in your birth chart.
H11 = the house of collective actions = the one where we "must" meet as many people as possible ...

== You will use the energies of Pluto, Mars and Venus in the field of experience of the houses that these 3 planets occupy to create a link

+ Use the planets that are in H1 and H7

I´ll leave Pluto and Mars aside for now.

We will simply note three points in a corner of our brain:

1 / that Pluto is H12 Scorpio (Pluto Maitre Scorpio) and that he is the esoteric master of H12 "original" = H12 Pisces

2 / that your Mars (Master Scorpio) is Pisces ...

3 / Mars Pisces square to the Sag / Gemini 28 ° axis.

But let´s come back to this direct axis H1-H7.
In H1, you will take advantage of the Scorpio / Pluto H12 magnetism to draw attention to you and in H7, Jupiter Taurus (Sensuality "amplified" by Jupiter) + Venus, in natural domicile in H7, Gemini (Natural ability to seduce by words)

To summarize, you magnetize in H1 and you capture in H7 (I am in the symbolic, I am not writing that you are a praying mantis or a "vamp")

To continue, I will study the frame of your Sun which has the following characteristics:
// All the "easy" planets are before your Sun and they are direct.
// All the "difficult" planets are after your Sun and retrograde.

When I see this, I see AlphaViolet which, through the ASC / DCSC axis + H7, has facilities to meet people.

Who in H8 will use the energies resulting from the relation generated in H7.
With Soleil at the "end of H8" which presents a vertiginous descent strewn with Monsters or obstacles (which are intended to become treasures, if they are sublimated)

Are:
// Lilith Virgo H10
// Pluto retrograde Scorpio H12
// Saturn retrograde Sag H2
// Uranus retrograde Sag H2 (conj Saturn)
// Neptune retrograde Capri H2

Result: The meeting of H7, metabolized in H8, leads to an opening towards new distressing spaces.

Of course, anguish does not mean curse, nor misfortune, but a proposal of challenges to cross to carry your Cross and install it at the most point of your Gogoltha (look at your north Node in H4 Aquarius + Mars Pisces).

The study of these challenges will be the subject of the next episode.
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December 31, 2021 at 14:08
(Virgo) Astrooo
Summary of previous episodes:
Ep1: You are 8 = you must use your energies for multiple metamorphoses.
Ep2: you have a natural capacity to create relationships, but once these relationships have been created, you open the curtain to get out of your "familiar" environment (from H1 to H8) and Ô Angoisse, in front of you there is an unhospitable universe ( H9 to H12) and meet Saturn, the stern father and Uranus, the insolent teenager in H2

In this 3rd episode, I will study this fundamental axis in your birth chart, your spine, the H2 / H8 axis at 28 ° (+/- a few degrees).

The H2 / H8 axis is basically an alchemical axis, but with you it is particularly important.

To summarize very very briefly alchemy, it is transforming matter into energy, by multiple operations which will bring into play the 4 elements (Earth / Water / Air / Fire).
The material will go through 3 phases:
- Black work
- White work
- Red work
(Note:
4 elements, 3 phases ... 4x3 = 12, how strange is it ^^)
These operations take place in a vessel called Athanor.

In your birth chart: Athanor = H8 (/H2) and will use the 4 elements / Water-Cancer
Air - Gemini
to
Sag - Fire
Capri - Earth

Your Athanor is built around the Gemini / Sag axis = Communication / Knowledge

And it has the following characteristic:
Mercury - Moon Gemini "versus" Saturn-Uranus Sag.

Mercury Gemini H8
// Strong point: overdeveloped "intuitive intelligence"

// Weakness:
Intellectual overactivity leading to mental exhaustion

Moon Gemini h8

// Strong point:
Intuition, curiosity for all subjects

// Weakness
Emotional instability

==> Mercury / Moon Gemini H8 = a whirlwind of ideas bubbling in the Athanor.

For the better: significant creative power and for the worse: mental exhaustion by incessant confrontations with its gray areas (and I have not yet addressed your initial question on Pluto Scorpio H12 ^^)

To escape this whirlwind in your Athanor, you will aim in front (H2) and there, at first, problem ......

Because you will have to manage like the Prince of the 7th Tarot card, the two best enemies of Primordial Mythology: Saturn and Ouranos whose behaviors are fundamentally opposed, and therefore complementary, when we manage to channel them.

// Uranus-Ouranos, the creative principle unable to materialize its brilliant ideas

// Saturn-C(h)ronos, the principle of reality which allows geniuses to give birth to their work, by renouncing some of their ideas, however great they may be.

Okay, but then what to do so that the Prince (You) manages to channel Uranus and Saturn, so that the Prince can drive his chariot according to his SUN (= your Soul), on the road of his-your destiny?

Suggested answer in a future episode, because there is
lots of things to say on your theme.
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January 1, 2022 at 20:18
(Cancer) alphaviolet » Astrooo
This is giving me a lot to think about and it all makes sense to me! Thank you again for taking the time to do this.
January 1, 2022 at 22:05
(Pisces) fishscales
You really need to watch yourself with this placement...your motivations...try to bring the sub-cobscious into the conscious, so to speak, or at least as much as that´s possible. If you become adept at this, you may not always be proud of what your motivations are. From there, try to analyze the root of your motivations, and take steps to resolve any issues that you feel "stuck" on. They may not be issues you enjoy thinking of consciously, or admitting to. Next step is to learn new paths of action.

Much is made about the ability to "read" others when you have this placement, and rightfully so...but I think it´s more important that it can give someone a powerful ability to read themselves...

Old habits that no longer serve any constructive purpose are meant to be rooted out, confronted, and dissolved here.

Orienting this placement towards positivity and growth can be helped by devoting one´s power to selfless endeavors...although care must be taken not to develop egotistical or prideful feelings about doing so...

It is a placement that requires vigilance and brutal self-honesty, and then, the will to change the deepest, most ingrained patterns of behavior...

I think Pluto will ultimately work with you if you´re intentions are pure, but getting to that place is easier said than done.
January 1, 2022 at 22:13
(Virgo) rohini moon » fishscales
"Much is made about the ability to "read" others when you have this placement, and rightfully so...but I think it´s more important that it can give someone a powerful ability to read themselves..."

Check yo self, before you wreck yo self...

Apt point.
January 1, 2022 at 22:36
(Sagittarius) Sagit
No offense here to anyone.

In another Universe, it seems, some duckets would change hands causing a fingerprint with a retro swirl in a shaking hand and the distant clinking of a glass.
January 2, 2022 at 02:39
(Cancer) alphaviolet » fishscales
Yes, there is definitely an issue I´ve been stuck on for quite some time. Something that is very difficult for me to come to terms with. I do believe my intentions are pure, but I suppose everyone believes that. I consider myself highly empathetic though. I feel it is my purpose to help others, especially healing through music. I love psychology and studying people and behaviors. But I believe there is a block concerning my own needs. I think self-honesty is definitely key here. Thank you for the response!
January 2, 2022 at 02:41
(Cancer) alphaviolet » rohini moon
Haha, yes definitely!
January 2, 2022 at 03:04
(Virgo) LotusStar
I´m sure it can feel dark and isolating at times but I always thought this was a better placement for Pluto because it tends to do well in water house and would rather stay hidden. This is a placement that can influence and wield power in subtle ways. You can transform in privacy and seclusion. If you have artistic talents, this could be a good way to channel that Pluto energy in a Neptunian way.

I guess the danger here is with too much repressing of darkness... It may feel easier to ignore instead of risk becoming consumed by it. Probably better that it´s not overly aspected in such a placement because maybe hard aspect can show bad victimization experience here.

Something about the 12h is sort of like Neptune that it has no boundaries... I think planets here can have a weird feelings of being almost out of control, having hard to define boundaries and limits, or unrealistic expectations.

Shadow work is probably super important with such a placement. Make sure you´re facing your own demons otherwise it can lead to projection.

I felt so much better once my progressed Pluto went into my 12house from natal 1st though. So. much. better.
January 2, 2022 at 04:09
(Aquarius) viv
Hi Alphaviolet, welcome
Thanks for asking for insight and encouragement. Brave of you! Great feedback so far too.

I have a Scorpio Asc but my Pluto is on the MC ,but still Pluto/Mars are the chart rulers. And I have a Gemini moon in the eighth. So I know something of what you mean about picking up people’s energies, seeing into motivations etc.

First I might suggest is you look at recasting your chart using whole signs and compare the two charts. Whole signs which were used in Hellenistic times, considers the whole sign in which the Asc is found as the first house. The IC begins the fourth house, the Dsc the seventh and the MC the tenth. If you do this you will see that Pluto will be in your first house which is more embodied and trines your Cancer sun. You will not only feel deeply but consciously process experiences in your body and express them through your ninth house. Check if this feels more accurate to you. Jupiter moving through Pisces this year may support this creative processing quite a lot.

Whole signs will still have your Moon and Mercury in the eighth in Gemini, giving the kind of incisive insight I mentioned before but the Sun will feel much freer in the ninth if you think of your chart this way.

33 can be a dark night of the Soul. There is a need to do that death and descent journey before you have a rebirth bringing more of your Soul capabilities into play. Freeing up your energy after a long relationship is quite cathartic if you have been deeply entwined but it takes time! For me a similar process involved allowing myself to feel more deeply, express that then go deeper into it again, trying to find the archetypal principle/dream figure at play. Then invitIng that in, painting, reading, dancIng. Now I can mostly see the roles the “other“ plays in triggering me, whether the “other” is someone I know personally, a client, or a a world situation. I did, and do, a lot of dialoging with archetypes! And all the astrological planets and asteroids etc are archetypes. All I can say about the outcome for myself is events feel a bit less personal and I’m less emotionally reactive, though who knows perhaps that is age too!

It can help a lot to have a mentor, friend or perhaps a professional alongside you through this process as you dance or make music and art around your feelings, physical symptoms and dreams. You have to keep a hold of daily life too so regular mundane appointments, “let’s go to the park“ type friends and everyday rituals can anchor you and give you a kick start if you go blank (aka resist) or get submerged in any feeling state.

It might also help to think of Pluto as Pluto AND Persephone and think of her descent, marriage and co rule as Queen of the Underworld, ultimately alternating with six months a year in the underworld and six months with her mother Ceres as the world blooms and blossoms. Best with it all Viv
January 2, 2022 at 05:01
(Aquarius) viv » Astrooo
Hi Astro
as another 8 woman I’m intrigued by your posts here. What system are you using? Viv
January 2, 2022 at 07:07
(Leo) cubic » fishscales
Real good stuff in here. Mr. Fishscales has been swinging some quality posts on this particular subject over time. This is a nice summary on a placement that is difficult to grasp consciously.

What can I add as someone who also has this placement is that once you have your energy cleaned up (it can be a lot of work) it tends to powerfully attract people who need healing.

Helping others helps 12th house placements, but it might not be in your conscious values in the same time to help others. Especially because there are simply people who will come up to you to bask in and use that healing energy, and ride into the sunset with a bunch of fake thanks sprinkled, if that. It can be a real problem over time and a discouragement.

Another aspect of it is the feeling of powerlessness, and encountering figures / experiences that render you effectively powerless when growing up or later. Yes Pluto is in a water house, but 12th house is a fluctuating, "unreliable" one.

There is suppression of power, and the person is chained by the universal(?) humanitarian code of 12th house/Pisces.

You _will_ watch others get away with murder with their non-12th house Pluto placements, but if you attempt to do the same thing, you´ll have a nasty community/karmic backlash most likely. So raw Pluto power is allowed mostly in self-defense / within the humanitarian ethical code of the 12th house. You have to ponder the ethicalness of Pluto´s actions before using it as others do, at the very least.

So on a wide community scale healed 12th House Pluto´s are "good" for the community because of this sort of global consideration about the effects of one´s actions, and about other community member´s actions on the whole, and the power to continuously subtly heal/moderate in a humanitarian way just by their presence.

Pluto is always manipulative regardless of house placement, so this one is manipulative in a subtle way where it can confuse others about whats going on, and work its magic from a backstage place. Coming dry out of the water after a swim sort of thing. It can be quite difficult to be aware of that dynamic also.

I do like other 12th house Plutonians as they seem safe and considerate people, and the ones who have gone through all the crazy difficulty to get on top of that placement are amazing to me in that they manage to keep it up.
January 2, 2022 at 10:58
(Virgo) Astrooo » alphaviolet
Summary of previous episodes:

Ep1: You are 8 = you must use your energies for multiple metamorphoses.
Ep2: you have a natural capacity to create relationships
Ep3: the alchemical axis H8 / H2 that you live under the Communication / Understanding of the World mode, is the spine of the development of your personality. The mastery of this axis is problematic given the forces involved.

/////
In this episode, I will study the mediator of the forces present, your Mars Pisces 29 ° in H4.
If Mars is equidistant from the two poles (Mercury / Moon + Saturn / Uranus), it is not at all impartial in your birth chart.
1 / Mars is instinctively at the service of the beautiful Venus
2 / Your Mars is Jupiter sextile. Mars appreciates Jupiter, because with Jupiter it can expand and with the feeling of acting for Justice
3 / Jupiter Taurus H7 = Venus is in the background = Mars is even happier working for Jupiter.
4 / Mars does not like Saturn, because Saturn is a constraint on its action.
5 / Mars H4 (natural house of Cancer) + Sun Cancer H8 (natural house of Scorpio) + Ascendant Scorpio + Pluto Scorpio H12 (Natural house of Pisces)
==> Mars looks more towards H8 than H2

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 = your principle of action, Mars Pisces H4, is easier to direct towards H8 than H2.

== the bubbling in your Athanor H8 will increase tenfold.

Or H4 / H8 (+ H12, but we will leave H12, and Pluto ^^, quiet for the moment) = Aquatic houses = Houses of emotions.

Mars Pisces = principle of action REACTIVE = Mars will be extremely sensitive to atmospheres, like a fish in water which will be sensitive to the temperature and the current of the water.
= Mars Pisces is going to be calm and positive if the mood is calm and positive.
= Mars Pisces will be aggressive and negative if the mood is aggressive and negative


Mars Pisces can also be compared to a stream that can rest peacefully in its bed or come out of its bed to cause flooding.
The floods are not generated by the stream, but by the overabundance of water = the accumulated emotions that overflow, in psychological comparison.

Floods of psychological (crying, screaming, hurtful words, etc.) and physical (violent response not proportionate to the aggression) violence.
Nota :
Mars = Neptune = Poseidon = storm and earthquake, so Mars Pisces....

Point of attention with a Mars Pisces: violence against itself.
The main technique of fighting aquatic fish is flight = flight from oneself = dissipation of violence by using drugs to "get lost", by bodily modifications to punish oneself or more radical: suicide, definitive flight from the physical incarnation.

So to summarize, your Mars will not initially help you manage this H8 / H2 opposition, but rather help to unbalance the relationship towards H8, your bubbling Athanor.
And thus amplify this feeling in you of "being inundated" by a tsunami of feelings, which you feel impossible to manage.

Ouch ... Will our heroine AlphaViolet manage to emerge unscathed from this tsunami?
Don´t miss the next episode ^^
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January 2, 2022 at 11:01
(Virgo) Astrooo » viv
Hi Viv,

What do you mean by system?
January 2, 2022 at 14:02
(Pisces) fishscales » cubic
"Another aspect of it is the feeling of powerlessness, and encountering figures / experiences that render you effectively powerless when growing up or later. Yes Pluto is in a water house, but 12th house is a fluctuating, "unreliable" one.

There is suppression of power, and the person is chained by the universal(?) humanitarian code of 12th house/Pisces."

Both valid points.

Personally, I think this placement is a sign of abuse of power in past lives. Pluto´s sign placement can point to the arena of life in which power was abused. Regardless, the karmic scales must be balanced.

Power that serves the ego and conscious desires is denied here, for the most part. However, real power, which I would say is energy directed beyond fulfilling desires of the ego, is accessible here...with alot of work.
January 2, 2022 at 14:29
(Leo) cubic » fishscales
"Personally, I think this placement is a sign of abuse of power in past lives. Pluto´s sign placement can point to the arena of life in which power was abused. Regardless, the karmic scales must be balanced."

In my view of course, I replace "past lives" with something like "immediate family tree" so I have found on one of my parent´s side there is deeply ingrained habitual abuse of power in interactions, that isn´t easy to catch at all or confront for most people. It´s both brutal, civilized and unnecessary in the same time :61: Very difficult stuff. That habit I suppose was (partially at least) copied by / transferred to one of my parents.

So in my case I think that´s why I got my Pluto in 12th.

"Power that serves the ego and conscious desires is denied here, for the most part. However, real power, which I would say is energy directed beyond fulfilling desires of the ego, is accessible here...with alot of work."

Hmm. Something to think about.
January 2, 2022 at 17:45
(Cancer) alphaviolet » viv
Thank you so much, Viv! I started looking at the whole chart system. Some of it resonated and some of it didn´t. I have been drawn to mentors lately. It seems like they are entering my life all at once! I don´t know where I would be without being able to express myself creatively through music, singing and dancing!
January 2, 2022 at 17:49
(Cancer) alphaviolet » LotusStar
Thank you for the encouragement! There has definitely been an obsession with avoiding the darkness. I think for much of my life, I distracted myself with taking care of a lot of wounded birds, narcissists, etc. I´m done with that. But looking at the darkness within myself has not been easy haha!
January 2, 2022 at 17:58
(Cancer) alphaviolet » cubic
I´ve always felt drawn to helping others, definitely! It´s nice to talk to people with this placement. I feel like all my life, people have held me to such a high standard and always view me from afar, never really seeing that I´m human too and need help sometimes, as well.

"Especially because there are simply people who will come up to you to bask in and use that healing energy, and ride into the sunset with a bunch of fake thanks sprinkled, if that. It can be a real problem over time and a discouragement."

Oh boy, you are speaking directly to me with this one. This has been a recurring theme in my life. So much so that in the past year, I´ve become a hermit trying to protect my energy at all costs. It has allowed me to think more clearly about past actions but I know it´s not sustainable for the long haul. I have gotten better at trusting my initial gut reaction though and not "feeling bad" for people or giving them what I think is the benefit of the doubt.

Thank you for the response!
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