Gatekeeping - Discussions, questions

Astrooo Hello,

if I understand the meaning of your message correctly, are you complaining about not being greeted with open arms by the "spécialists"?
this is normal, it is the meaning of any initiatory journey, whatever the specialty (cooking, occultism, gardening, etc.).

Catch-22 I´m not understanding what you mean actually...

atlantickush Hi.

No, I should have made that more clear. That´s exactly NOT what I meant. I would call that grandiosity or attention seeking.

By gatekeeping I meant when it is done specifically along the lines of the reasons above.

You get it in Egyptology for instance, Graham Hancock has talked about it a lot. The mainstream Egyptologists will be so mean to people from outside the status quo, because their status is more important than the discoveries I guess.

You are also seeing it with psychedelics too, how the same people who ridiculed drug users twenty years ago now won´t shut up about MDMA therapy and won´t give credit to people who intuitively knew it was kinda wrong that the drugs had been left out of medicine or whatever.

I´m just wondering if people see that in the world really. Theres an impulse for some people some of the time to be pretty dishonest really in order to protect the status quo. I don´t know why I´m just figuring it all out.

cubic » atlantickush "because their status is more important than the discoveries I guess."

Yes, even in charts we call the 10th house the Midheaven. Apperantly humans enjoy their status very much, above all else. Reputation, access to resources, power and subsequently networks are all tied to it, providing extreme survival value.

Well if you´ve fought tooth and nail and spend possibly decades acquiring competency to secure a position.. why would you give it away without a fight? Lose all that access to networks and resources?

Yes, people throw rocks down on the heads of the ones trying to climb I´ve seen nothing else, and it can be viscious. The ones climbing also do viscious things to get to the top. You MIGHT behave just as that once you´re in a hard earned position.

It´s good that some things aren´t easy to change, that way some stability is possible.

But yes many fields advance one death of a professor at a time indeed, and they are advanced by an extreme minority of people, who may not always live to see their theories or contributions get the recognition they deserve, and maybe that´s ok somehow in some ultimate way that isn´t easy to grasp, maybe it´s not.

What you describe is what I think people with prominent Uranus experience somewhat regularly. They can be the first to be hit by an idea or ideological shift, and become willing or unwilling mouthpieces of it, before it becomes acceptable in society, and Saturn and what it signifies is the first thing that the new idea hits on its way into the world.

I´ve made my peace with it and learned to enjoy the process on a small, private scale. I´ve donated to MDMA research (MAPS) many years ago, and for the fun of it, I shared to a few people the fact and was met with predictable incredulity and hidden dissaproval, and "this is weird/he is weird" and all that. For the record I´ve not done MDMA, but the whole process of the therapies made a lot of sense to me.

I do tend to blurt out things that are about to become the new in matter of a few months sometimes, meanwhile I may get some thumbsdown, hidden dissaproval, distancing etc. When the said thing becomes the norm I do not get excuses or recognition, but I enjoy privately being on the right path, and the little adrenaline rush from the risk of expressing something, that is yet to materialize fully. There is no upside to it other than that, that I know of, heh, but of course knowing whats next can be exploited in one´s specific field in opportune moments, so it´s not all useless secret larping about being a martyr4society.

So yeah like in the myth.. Kronos (Saturn) castrates Uranus, and its genitals fall into the ocean which is fertilized by his seed, and out of the foam springs Aphrodite (Venus). I suppose in that final stage the idea is harmoniously (Venus) integrated into society.

goldenlion32 » atlantickush As INFJ i´m familiar with Extroverts who usually are the one´s who put their names, and brand on the innovations, creations, and products Introverts design in every niche, category, label, title. They tend to sell the products as well and take the credit as you stated.

I know Gen X Introverts have been speaking out about this in every social class since we grew up with our brains locked and told we were weak by Extroverts and found out since 2003-2023 the truth coming out, we always knew what we were doing, but like you stated the Extroverts want credit that doesn´t belong to them behind the scenes.

I think the Introvert groups have been up and running and people have been speaking out in the mental health forums, relationship forums, entreprenuer forums because we are a lot of the educators, speakers, writers, and naturally you have the battle between the two online in social media breaking through the truth every year.

As your pointing it out once again.

INFJ´/INFP´s and INTJ´/INTP´s are your innovators, creators, technical, mechanical, programmers, scripts, coding, design, engineer, social workers, psychologists, advocates, entrepreneurs etc. Artists, musicians, writers. Graphic Artists.

I think 2024 in Aquarius Pluto you will see more and more of them become leaders, because they´re not sleeping anymore in all the generations.
They don´t care to be the 3rd party anymore.

atlantickush » cubic Cubic you are an absolute genius bro, thank you so much for that thoughtful answer.

It was Saturn square Uranus that had me thinking about this a lot, so kudos for picking up on that.

But I had completely missed the fact the 10th and MC is going to make such a big difference to how people gatekeep and how much they do.

You hit the nail on the head. It makes so much sense. I obviously was sounding really intolerant of the gatekeepers and I´m a Taurus 10th and MC so I´m most likely experiencing a Uranian perspective to this. If Saturn was in my 10th I bet I would be vicously lamenting the new ideas and upstarts haha.

atlantickush » goldenlion32 Goldenlion thank you for that. That resonates pretty hard and didn´t know about how it was widespread.

What you said chimed with me because I was arguing about Elin Musk the other day (as you do) and realised people must think he actually did the research and engineering to build the Tesla?! The people who would argue ´the Tesla is thanks to Elon´ are a good example of gate keeping for me, like you said, an extrovert who will take the credit.

Thanks again, really glad to know I´m not just talking rubbish here 😂

goldenlion32 » atlantickush I will tell you your not talking rubbish. Most people don´t realize the difference between the Extroverts and Introverts at face value. They function differently in society.

Carl Jung and Freud i believe i read somewhere that Freud kind of went after him and alder and you can see he had the focus at the time, but now with millennial´s Carl Jung is popular now after his death.

Before Millennial´s I don´t remember hearing as much about Jung, it was more Freud. But, it depends on what university or college you go too and what psychology program they have.

Then you can say with Einstein they told him he was dumb and turned out to be one of the most genius people.

Hopefully Gen Z and Millennial´s can break through all the ignorance of past generations trying to silence voices.

Astro-Seek.com » goldenlion32 System message: Post has been written by user Originallyweirdbutnormal, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Good post.
I am not sure I could make the extrovert / introvert distinction.

In truth both types are needed as a balance. Sadly society only seems to really let one type excel though.

It also depends on your circle and people you know too. Deep bonds can go a long way.

But without that. The introvert has a rougher time by default.

goldenlion32 » Originallyweirdbutnormal i think you have to hang out in the personality types forums to see how they interact with one another and see differently. i used to have them all in my feed on facebook.

i think it depends on the life lesson at the time. I had a huge group back home all the time and tourist area, where i just watched a video that came out in astrology about my group with Virgo Pluto 29 degrees that 2013-2019 was kind of a period of time that is once in a life time experience of being the lone ranger versus the group with the Uranus in Libra opposition Aries in Chiron and Virgo Pluto opposition Aries in Chiron.

Kind of was surprised to see the video and see how it did correlate with events in the physical.

Even though I am INFJ i did have a huge group of people around me all the time, and that is kind of blending in with everyone else, so in the mid-life crisis it was separating from the group and house cleaning of the subconscious mind and becoming the leader.

I´m not sure other people will go through that in their life time, but we did.

I know she had other passage rites for the other generations.

Astro-Seek.com » goldenlion32 System message: Post has been written by user Originallyweirdbutnormal, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I think you made a correct judgement about hanging out in the right spaces, thank you.

I can respect and see how your experiences add to the discussion.
I too am an INFJ with the (A) for assertive... but you have some years on me and a world of other experiences and I am gladly enjoying hearing your experiences, especially that yours make a way from personal to broader areas in a logical fashion.

Turbo TJ » atlantickush Cubic you are an absolute genius bro, thank you so much for that thoughtful answer.

It was Saturn square Uranus that had me thinking about this a lot, so kudos for picking up on that.

But I had completely missed the fact the 10th and MC is going to make such a big difference to how people gatekeep and how much they do.

You hit the nail on the head. It makes so much sense. I obviously was sounding really intolerant of the gatekeepers and I´m a Taurus 10th and MC so I´m most likely experiencing a Uranian perspective to this. If Saturn was in my 10th I bet I would be vicously lamenting the new ideas and upstarts haha.


For starts the "gatekeeping" is something we all pocess and express in our own unique demeanor... Example we may have some very dark despicable embarrassing truths about our past that´s quite appalling when we actually think about what we did. Now we may open up to a "lover" or a "friend". But soon as the "gossip squad" let´s loose and we become confronted by "peers" who we have never told these "truths" too. So most individuals will shield up deny and hide these truths... Gatekeeping...

Now onto the "specialist" gatekeeping... The Occult for example. Yes I one personally gatekeep most all of the Absolute Truths I´ve discovered. I like to claim the "Jesus" complex... It´s hard for "GOD" to explain/teach GODLY things to the lesser minded simpletons kf the world. So gatekeeping even at the most "ELITEST" level.

Good topic btw

Rosincvist » atlantickush ...Always difference for age categories; All children everywhere are presented with the idea of "5 senses" then as college students they are introduced to the sixth kinesthetic sense!
Children are given a chance to play with Ancient Egyptian vowels, then in college as young adults they are told there are no Egyptian vowels!
Celtic Art´s Center has acting for adults and `art´ for children. .................Muted lights for elders, flourescent lights packed close together to condition youths to noxious work environments.
Gender Categories; Self-Defense for girls, backpacking for boys!

atlantickush » Turbo TJ Yeah I hear you. Its an all too human thing to defend your ´image´, and it´s a very relatable problem. Though, if I had told someone something in confidence and people found out, I would hope people take it on the chin, be honest, and try not to such contraversial things!

The example you gave also folds in the problem of the judgementalism and scapegoating that goes on, which actually deserves its own post.

I´m going to do it 😅