What´s going on with my pluto?

July 8, 2021 at 10:24 (UT/GMT)
(Leo) Anni23
What´s going on with my pluto?
I have many aspects to it and it´s supposed to be one of my 3 most domiant planets. Yet I do not think that I can perceive it´s influence as being particularly strong. As for it´s placement in the 2nd house I have no idea what it is doing there!

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July 8, 2021 at 14:23
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio
Are you stable financially ? Are you unbothered when others take from you ? Experienced any loss that reshaped the way you value your self-worth or personal resources ?

Pluto is dominant but you have a lot of earth energy in your chart. . .
July 8, 2021 at 14:55
(Leo) Anni23 » OctoberScorpio
I suppose more or less I am financially stable for some time yes. But I find that I may not be able to currently predict my future in these uncertain times and it may be that the period of "peace and stability" I have enjoyed (eye roll) may be coming to an end sooner than later.
I am more concerned with my continued mental stablity.
All good things must end so they say..

I honestly cannot say what I should predict. Which is indeed unusual for me to experience in a way. I´m used to more internal upheavals. Although even those I could have dealt with in a worse way (and possibly therefore better) that is the effect of my moon of course. To want to establish in the mind that everything is ok in some subjective sense even if objectively it looks bad :61:

I am not sure what my losses are as I do not have much beyond mere "stabilty" in the present.

Yes I thought that earth and air are my two more dominant elements. I have thought that this must have had some stabilising effect on what otherwise might have been some chaotic influences :61:

Which of my aspects to pluto do you think should be of the most (observable) importance?
July 8, 2021 at 15:42
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio » Anni23
its kind of hard to tell which you chosen to carry most weight. tightest orb would be the semi square to Jupiter. Some people don´t consider minors but I do. by experience, I do feel their importance.

Things I wrote are very general, just my thoughts on having Pluto in 2nd. . . I have Scorpio there so I resonate with, to a certain extent.
July 8, 2021 at 16:28
(Leo) Anni23 » OctoberScorpio
Oh I didn´t know that it was semi-square my jupiter. It doesn´t show up on here under my aspects. Would you say semi-squares are particularly important generally then? I haven´t read about them

What has been ypur experience with pluto in your second house? Financially/personally

Also as another issue I wonder if Pluto is the ruler of scorpio as we know that there have been some issues with that planet/astronomy and modern astrological definitions.

Same could be said for other signs as well..
July 8, 2021 at 20:54
(Gemini) AmberMoon
If I´m not mistaken Pluto co-rules Scorpio with Mars just like Neptune and Jupiter rule Pisces.

Sometimes they are referred to as the ancient rulers (that is: Jupiter, Neptune) for those planets.

In Vedic astrology that ancient rulership is still maintained.

8th house and all things Plutonian evoke in me personally a feeling of intensity of which I can at one time wonder: what would life be without it (~ we also go to the theatre for emotions/thrill/some profound experience).
And the other time, I´m thinking: if I could choose, I might not redo this. It´s too intense.


Not sure about 2nd house effects, but maybe helpful as related: the experience of having lived under a Pluto MC line (since MC and income are linked.)

- 🙂 Intense
- those backstabbers that live in every company? Yea... You will see the backside of betrayal (in case you thought the front was already ugly enough)
- there are no certainties on the workfloor regardless your efforts, promotions, etc. E.g The company will just go bankrupt and you´ll have to start all over again.
- There´s something draining even in the parts you enjoy doing most.
- Many endings, for example: people leave, you get fired, bosses change, divisions shut down, company files for bankruptcy
- correspondingly: bank account ongoing shift between happy and the end of happy.
- Focused display of authority from your superiors, in whatever humble and unhumble ways. Even the co-workers will try to have a go at it.

- Etc.
July 8, 2021 at 21:23
(Leo) Anni23 » AmberMoon
Oh yes so they say. Also the moderns often do not prescribe jupiter anymore to Pisces, well that at least makes definite sense to me.

Though I suppose I could see it as possible generally speaking that some if the signs could have two ruling planets. Also at the same time I can see that traditional astrology may have gotten more right than wrong.

Gosh that seems very negative.
I have read that also I should have plutonian characteristics in the financial department :23: and regards to the accumulation of money :63:
Though again I am uncertain if the second house mainly regards finances/or business
July 8, 2021 at 21:41
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio » Anni23
"Would you say semi-squares are particularly important generally then?"

I take them into account but many astrologers don´t. They´re minor aspects so you have to manually select them on astroseek settings (under the chart options) Octile and tri-octile means the same as semi square and sesquadrate. 45 or 135 degrees.
People tend to place less importance because minor aspects are easily suppressed rather than squares causing such an irritation that forces an action. Squares truly challenge us. . . considering minor aspects, which I also think sextiles is one, I wouldn´t take more than 2 degree orbs.

"What has been ypur experience with pluto in your second house?" Financially/personally

I have Pluto in 1st house conjunct my asc. Scorpio rules my 2nd house. If you use WS, I have sun-mercury-uranus in 2nd house. Whatever I answer might be more personal to my chart, though I am secretive about my finances. I have both my parents and one sister with Scorpio on their 2nd and they are all like this too. Family secrets always involved finances, personal ressources. . .
July 8, 2021 at 22:02
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio
There´s a subconscious fear with Pluto being in this house. it is the house of self worth, personal resources. possessions.

could be fear of death, fear of poverty not having enough, you could even fear money, as you see how evil its effects have on the society. fear of being abandoned and etc.

edits/: Outer planets are more felt on subconscious levels. Vs inner planets that you literally see from your eyes. You might not feel this way. Events might happen triggering it, lost of job, changes, fluctuation in resources etc. relying on people that will betray you, (testing self-esteem) going through all this will make you more powerful and resilient, Pluto transforms you. like a Phoenix from the ashes, you’ll rise again from those downfalls.
July 9, 2021 at 16:07
(Leo) Anni23 » OctoberScorpio
Ahh ok perhaps I see now. Yes many of my relationships have either inexplicably fallen apart/or because they were with people who were dealing with heavy energies of their own and they became toxic.
Yes it has made me have to reevaluate what I really have and who I can rely upon (in fact nobody. Currently. Often I´m optimistic that will change however) What with the extended current situation and having moved somewhere new I am just stuck from only half way having moved on and out into a less toxic environment.

Hmmm.... I am pretty sure this has made me incredibly resilient emotionally. Ans of course my moon in virgo in the 12th helps too. (Hinders and helps lol)

I would have thought that this had more to do with something else however. Or that the effect would be strongest if I had pluto in the 5th, 7th or 11th houses.
July 10, 2021 at 02:28
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio » Anni23
I feel you on that, I´ve had similar experiences. looking into your 2rd, you´re right about your Moon. it´s conjunct Mars, ruler of Scorpio.

"I would have thought that this had more to do with something else however. Or that the effect would be strongest if I had pluto in the 5th, 7th or 11th houses."

Yes, for sure! I mean, we barely scratched the surface. Pluto is not like cookies and cream, it goes a lot deeper. Whatever house Pluto is in will have a certain form of intensity. in psychological patterns that urges us to control ourselves and our environment, how we exert our power and this stems from subconscious fears. Pluto disrupts and brings change (transformations) by eliminating what inhibits personal growth. Whatever house it´s in will be the "themes of those transformations.

Im not sure what you meant by strongest in those houses ? was is generally speaking or applied to your chart ?

Pluto in the 5th house. We´re both Libra risings. It came to me not long ago that this transit will last 20 years. Imagine! 😳
July 11, 2021 at 04:18
(Leo) Anni23 » OctoberScorpio
Yes.... usually I have thought/felt that my moon is the start and end of all my problems but maybe also the partial solutions for them.

Hard things in our charts are actually like this. Blessings in disguise others might say. But they aren´t necessarily in disguise, just sometimes we feel to hate them and at other times love them.

And I´m sure that there is something about balance too which goes beyond even virgo/libra tendencies but your also right that people tend to avoid the effect of pluto like the plague on their existence that they may also deny but it probably has the capacity to remove what has no utility etc. for us. Or for our souls
Well at least I think I believe that by this time.

Though it shouldn´t be a imagined strength, but maybe a sense of self that should be purified perhaps...
(Still I don´t want to think that this will continue for years and years more :61:)

*oh I meant I thought that in those other houses it would apply more to relationships

But you meant that anything (incorrectly) attached to self worth/identity can be plutos target right?
Which would be Very likely to include false relationships right? :61:
July 11, 2021 at 15:08
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio » Anni23
I think many things in our charts will include relationships. they mirror ourselves, right ? I remember my dad always saying stuff like, “if you hang out with losers, you’ll become one” we are who we attract. And yes, when we realize those “toxic” relationships and get out of them, it does come with death/rebirth, Purification, transformation. . .

Pluto targets directly to self identity would be Pluto in 1st, conjunct the asc or Pluto in strong aspects to Sun/Moon. Well from my perspective. In the 2nd house will have to do with personal worth, values, personal resources, personal possessions, usually the “themes” of the 2nd house. You also have Sun trine Pluto, so I could only assume it would be also big part of identity for you.

When I first learned about the squares to my Moon and planets in my 12th, I did resent my chart very strongly. Ha! Blessings in disguise indeed. We can’t escape them, but we do learn and grown from them. I still am, I think this cycle will last for the rest of my life.

I heard a few times, Pluto is the soul of the chart. It represents inheritance, death/rebirth, rejuvenation, refinement. The soul never dies, only the physical body retires.
July 11, 2021 at 15:44
(Leo) Anni23 » OctoberScorpio
Omg I have it in strong aspects to my sun and moon :42: :42:


Unfortunately for me I have usually attracted people who are the best and the worst at the same time..
You probably know the type.
Big morals... high ideas. Turns out to have a hidden big ego as well and probably deep deep set issues.. Could be these are people with heaps of potential ironically. With this sort you almost don´t know what your going to get :63:


I´m still not sure how pluto being trine my sun is a big part of my identity. But maybe it is and I am concealing it from myself even?

Ha I know what you mean about resentment! Related to the 12th house especially. Though this came a little late for me actually. At first it didn´t come as a surprise by that stage even though, and I could at least see why it was be worth it. Already knowing at that age why it would be worth it. I suppose I wasn´t as scared of the process, and maybe still aren´t as I can see that I possibly should be

But then I do believe what you have said- you choose who you know/and you choose who you become.
This is comforting despite all else. The light of salvation at the end of the tunnel.
July 11, 2021 at 15:54
(Aries) Jay Jay
Pluto is a transpersonal planet - not a personal one - so its influence often feels like a pressure coming from outside of ourselves. Pluto says we must evolve the sign and house it is in. So, since the 2nd house is about self-value, self-concept - you are evolving how you feel self-value. It´s in Scorpio, so what you´re evolving may be around how you bond with people - the boundaries you have with people. I think you´re probably quite sensitive with both Cancer planets and Libra rising - you feel other people´s energies - as you relate to them. This can make you want to help them in order to have more pleasant energy exchanges with them. Or maybe you withdraw or do the opposite - take control of the interactions, if it is really unpleasant. Either way - having this sensitivity makes you have to deal with people´s energy.

Your North Node is also in the 2nd house - so in Sag, you are to expand your self-concept or self-value - through learning and growing - expanding your mind and experiences. Since other parts of the chart also point to relationships - Libra-Aries ASC-DES and other planets - together with the Pluto in Scorpio, the chart is addressing relationship issues. You are learning to be less attuned to the needs of others and other people´s feelings or energies and have more attention to your own self-development. And you will work toward more independence within your relationships, with healthy boundaries.

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July 11, 2021 at 16:17
(Leo) Anni23 » Jay Jay
Ohh.. that´s correct. I have done both of those ways. Although I´ve dealt with all kinds of people and unfortunately for the latter approach (avoiding) only works with some people. Many people it seems repel a mutual energy flow.

Though I have felt before those (failed)exchanges the energy leave me by what I feel is the necessary separation of the self. :63:

Often at these times I do not even feel much for those people or for myself.
In fact I feel that I have never had the opportunity to connect (so far) with anyone on a deeper level and that I am disconnected from anyone else. By this process I have felt I couldn´t feel much with/without relating to another person or concept of people. A long time ago shutting down emotions that cannot be continued

I feel like I am not meant to have relationships (inc even family/friends)

So I don´t know if I feel that I have succeeded yet by doing this process of embrace-reject repeatedly. Though I am comfortable now rejecting people,.. I do not see why I should only meet people who this will end up happening with.
I don´t see the lesson here.

As for my nn, which I am still to consider in position to other factors I am aware of in my chart I am more of a traditionalist and am persuaded (also because of other factors) to use whole signs
July 11, 2021 at 17:34
(Aries) Jay Jay » Anni23
Yes, I think it´s true to find people to go deep with. There is always something missing from the "perfect" relationship. But, I think most of us do not find a perfect relationship. We appreciate people for meeting parts of our relational needs, even if on a superficial level.

And I do think that having an equal energy exchange is rare. I do not expect it. I also think that having relationships isn´t for everyone. Some of us are tuning into our soul selves and this is more important - and - Libra can be turned inward in order to do an energy exchange with Soul-Self. Maybe this is more how you are using your Libra?
July 11, 2021 at 18:39
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio » Jay Jay
Hi Jay Jay,

I understand what you mean. Were all saying similar things here but with different words. just my opinion.

“Pluto is a transpersonal planet” is the correct way of saying. and “must evolve the sign and house it is in” I think this is the lesson of Pluto. no ?

We’re just looking into one aspect and for sure there’s so many layers we can unravel so its hard just in few sentences to a forum. the whole chart needs to be considered of course, I understand.

Would you say all outer planets are transpersonal ? Uranus Neptune Pluto ? Idk, I believe they are. Is what I was trying to explain how “events” might happen triggering those energies of Pluto. I would think the same for the other outer planets.

If you have time to share your thoughts :)
July 11, 2021 at 19:13
(Aries) Jay Jay » OctoberScorpio
I´m sorry - I didn´t read all the comments, so anything I said was just coming to me while looking at the chart and not in response to anything anyone was saying.

Yes, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are deemed transpersonal planets, and I agree with that. Of course, what they ask of us can feel very personal when we aren´t doing what they ask of us and they cause problems or like you say - events - that teach us a lesson. But we don´t always feel them when they transit, do we? I think of those planets as triggering us rather than they being triggered, but this may just be semantics here - you may have meant that. If we aren´t doing what they ask - then I suppose you could say we ourselves are triggering the event.

You could say that the transpersonal planets are soul-oriented or are part of the soul putting pressure on us in three different ways to turn our attention toward our souls -- to become more self-realized. The personal and social planets describe more of our personalities. That´s how I see it. I imagine - much like you see it.
July 11, 2021 at 19:33
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio » Jay Jay
oh no, no need to apologize. I just meant to say we were all talking the same language, different words. Im happy to see your comments. I always learn a little something from them, which I´m grateful for. Please don´t be sorry!

Yes totally I meant they trigger us. I think we do feel the effects of these transits. I know it´s personal to each individual but when tr. Pluto conjunct my natal Sun, and same when it transit conjunct my IC, someone very close to me passed away to the non physical. Sun, and Capricorn ruling my IC. Both times was paternal figures. Strong coincidences from life events relatable to my transits.

Like I mentioned up here, Im not quite sure what to expect with Pluto transit in Aquarius for 20 years. I think if something important happens, might be when it will be aspecting points to my natal chart. Specially square, conjunct or opposite to anything I have in the fix signs. Hopefully not a constant 20 year long ongoing effect, yikes!
July 11, 2021 at 20:20
(Aries) Jay Jay » OctoberScorpio
Yeah, I think the 20-year long effects apply more to social and political life - in a general way. I think the transpersonal planets do indeed seem to affect us when they are in hard aspect to our chart in close orb. Otherwise, we tend not to notice them too much. Sometimes there is an effect to me when they are in hard aspect to natal planets - but not always. What I´ve noticed is when two of them - like Pluto square Uranus and then hard aspect to natal planet - that´s when it´s difficult not to notice them. But, yeah, it´s not a consistent thing - and quite individual! I recently had TR Uranus conjunct natal Venus - for a long time - and if there was an effect, it was very subtle - and I was not sure at all that I felt an effect. I had guesses, but it wasn´t obvious to me. It didn´t hit me over the head with a lesson.
July 11, 2021 at 23:13
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio » Jay Jay
Well both those cycles I was in personal year 9. (numerology) so maybe that explains why.

Sometimes I get very passionate about astrology and look for the correlations, significance to prove its accuracy. Maybe I see it as too big of a deal at times. On the other hand, I can get really skeptic about things and realize with "ah ha" moments how true and insightful this science is. yes, I call astrology a science :)
July 12, 2021 at 00:12
(Aries) Jay Jay » OctoberScorpio
Yes, I´m also one who is quite skeptical about astrological correlations and interpretations. I have to prove it to myself - with repeated correlation for other people. But there are many possible interpretations - and different ways of responding - so I always keep an open mind. Astrology is an elegant art and science - and it all depends upon our skill as to how well we use. It takes incredible time and effort to be good at it. Even if I don´t notice how a transit might be affecting me - I still keep an open mind - because maybe I´m just not yet aware of it - conscious enough - or simply don´t have the skill to interpret it!
July 12, 2021 at 11:27
(Leo) Anni23 » Jay Jay
Yes I agree with most of this.
We cannot depend entirely on other people.
Well some of us can´t.

Perhaps it does come down to something like luck (and astrology hehe)
Unfortunately though we do not always get what we put in.
(And then there is karma and hard lessons for mistakes made.)

I would like to think that on some level it comes down to what we want on a deepest level though. That could be more than one thing. To have our development obstructed is surely the worse event.

The only thing is that for some people, like myself, we may be wondering after a time if our lives are meant to be about being disconnected Completely or connecting despite many failed attempts.., even achieving a "greater" connection. (Astrology and similar ideas may play into this)
As the desire for both seems to be present :23:

I´m not quite sure about what you mean about libra here?
July 12, 2021 at 12:33
(Aries) Jay Jay » Anni23
Libra does an energy exchange with other people - but - it can do an energy exchange with Soul if turned inward. Usually, people use Libra to exchange energy - feel other people´s feelings, thoughts, their energy - and I think of this is horizontal sharing of energy between people. But, when we are connecting to Soul within - it is used vertically - internally. If you don´t feel connected to your higher self or soul - then you won´t relate to this.

When we feel blocked "horizontally" people often are forced to receive love and support within themselves. Sometimes a very hard childhood with little positive energy from family, will put a child in touch with higher energies of Soul - in order to get through it.

It is human to want love - to want to bond - to deeply share ourselves with another - but if the lifetime is more about making a transition from the human external focus to the human Soul-Spirit focus, there is both, the desire for deep emotional bonds - and yet, in this phase of spiritual development - we are thrown back onto our inner life.

This may or may not be what is happening for you, but it is an explanation. It can feel lonely - but at the same time - there is the excitement of developing a more spiritual life - which only happens from within and in the privacy of our inner world. I think it takes several lifetimes to go through this "phase". It isn´t easy because the urge to bond with another is biological as well as emotional - strong.
July 12, 2021 at 12:54
(Leo) Anni23 » Jay Jay
Ok I think that this makes a lot of sense.

I feel suffocated often by the presence of other people, even if it is "neutral". A complete lack of freedom even.. I realise that this may be largely imagined. As It occurs I think even when I have not been personally compromised in any way.

Only my emotions feel real and yet even those may be susceptible to the presence of over people. Maybe sometimes it confuses me to have these unused emotions and have no application/context to justify my ideals even. I think that I used to be more ok with this but then also I didn´t realise before just how disconnected I was or would become and so let situations eat away at me slowly. I thought that my moon would deal with it basically. But I don´t know the purpose of my moon now almost. To protect? It will end up protecting me even from myself
Though I feel that I do need to protect myself from others but then also doing this that I likewise have suffocated myself

At least I may be connecting more with myself through spirituality now, thank god if this is true. Otherwise I wouldn´t know what would happen.. though this all seems like a two forked road

I suppose I just feel conflicted about this all. That the ideas I have should always be disconnected in my personal life from other people?

Thanks for this, I think it´s helping me to clarify a lot.. (maybe I do absorb others energies more than I thought I do)
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