Question for the people who use Whole Signs...

April 5, 2021 at 18:15 (UT/GMT)
(Virgo) LotusStar
Question for the people who use Whole Signs...
Do you use the traditional rulers or modern rulers for interpreting? Or, do you use both? If you use both, how do you reconcile them or is there one you give more importance to?

I am learning about it and although I can see its accuracy in some ways... It feels almost undeniable to me that, at least as far as transits go, I feel them as they cross the degree of the house cusp, not as soon as they change signs. What´s been your experience with that?

Thanks for sharing :17:

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April 5, 2021 at 18:21
(Libra) leorising
I studied classical astrology, but I have heard of several modern astrologers who use the traditional signs rulers.
For the analysis of aspects with Neptune Uranus and Pluto, classical astrology considers aspects of 1 degree orbs only :68:
April 5, 2021 at 19:39
(Aries) nutelina
>
I am learning about it and although I can see its accuracy in some ways... It feels almost undeniable to me that, at least as far as transits go, I feel them as they cross the degree of the house cusp, not as soon as they change signs. What´s been your experience with that?

What do you mean, with WH the cusp = change of sign or is the degree of the rising sign added?
April 5, 2021 at 22:37
(Virgo) LotusStar » leorising
Thanks :) Which house system does classical use?
April 5, 2021 at 22:42
(Virgo) LotusStar » nutelina
I mean, for example if my second house starts at 15 Sagittarius, I feel the effects of a transitting planet´s impact on that house after it crosses the 15 degrees and not as soon as it enters the sign of Sagittarius. I hope that made sense.

I am noticing when I do natal chart interpretations reading ruler of house in houses, using whole signs systems is being more accurate. But it seems when I am tracking transits, Placidus is being more accurate. But maybe it´s because I am not using the correct ruler, maybe should use only traditional rulers... So, I´m trying to figure it out. :2:

I see some readers using modern rulers with the traditional ruler as a lesser influence, and some doing the opposite or using only traditional rulers.

I myself am leaning more towards using both, but not sure which one to give more importance to. Sometimes they can be totally different.

For example, I know you have a few Pisces planets... Do you resonate more with the Jupiter placement, or Neptune, or both?
April 5, 2021 at 22:52
(Libra) leorising » LotusStar
placidus, for some specific reports whole sign.
about what you said about transits, in my case I also feel more accurate placidus :68:
April 6, 2021 at 02:48
(Taurus) Rosincvist
God :18:s for us to be sweet and simple however Astrology is salty and complicated! The thema mundi was perfect before 1781, but that has been so over for the past 240 years! Paid Astrologers are asked to bow down to women´s need for love affairs and Old-style Traditionalism.
The debate over :156: versus :159:; Jupiter is brilliantly sufficient ALL!! the time, however :159: can be completely off in the paranormal "outside the box!"
The Outermost planets are higher Octaves of the most personal planets; That is why Astrotheme has :155:, :157:, & :160: all the same red!
As for whole sign the bell curve of Ascendant influence in my chart is off in Leo even though I am a Virgo Rising! That is why first-house :199: ALMOST!! makes sense when whole sign is applied to my own chart!
April 6, 2021 at 08:44
(Aries) nutelina » LotusStar
>I mean, for example if my second house starts at 15 Sagittarius, I feel the effects of a transitting planet´s impact on that house after it crosses the 15 degrees and not as soon as it enters the sign of Sagittarius. I hope that made sense.

So you are saying WH doesn´t work for you in this regard? If WH starts at the beginning of Sagittarius...

As for rulers, I have not figured out which is which because I don´t see a limit of influence. As for the example I would see Neptune giving me a lot of illusions, it´s really annoying. But I´m also expanding my knowledge in the 9th house, just not all the time, I have breaks. So it depends on the transits.

I would like to test it before I´d come to conclusions. For me WH sign makes more sense (is it whole house sign or just whole sign?) that it puts my Pisces plants in the 9th house instead of Placidus in the 10th. My career was never stable, I can´t get along with people because I always have to learn more to get to an even higher position but that takes times of which I have less and less off.

So is Whole Sign calculated from the degree of the ascendant, in my case 18 degrees?
April 6, 2021 at 08:46
(Aries) nutelina » Rosincvist
Well AstroTheme can suck balls since :157: is not a higher octave of :155: whereas :160: I´d say more probable. All three are just not alike in my opinion.
April 6, 2021 at 09:56
(Cancer) Trevor777
In Whole sign, I use Traditional up to Saturn,

in Placidus I use all planets up to Pluto
April 6, 2021 at 18:09
(Virgo) LotusStar » nutelina
With Whole sign, they don´t pay attention to degrees at all from what I gather. Even if your ascendant falls in 18 Cancer, they consider the whole first house to start and end with Cancer, the whole second house to start and end with Leo, etc.

With Equal house system, if your ascendant is at 18 degrees, they consider all your following houses start at 18 degrees. With Placidus, the degrees of all your houses can shift because it´s based on some kind of mathematical calculation, and some signs can even be intercepted so that sign doesnt have any rulership on any house.

With Placidus you´d have a big emphasis in the 10th house, would mean someone quite career/status oriented, but with whole signs, all the Pisces energy would fall into the 9th giving you a stellium there, making you more interested in exploring different spiritual and philosophical teachings, and law. Mars in the 9th would also make someone quite a traveler and explorer, kind of restless. Where a 10th house Mars pours their energy into career and ambitious to make a name for themselves... Even if the south node being conjunct can tone that down a bit, or create the feeling of dissatisfaction, it would still be an area of emphasis where one feels comfortable and familiar to engage in. South node in 10th can be the workaholic types for who work is almost viewed as an escape from home/family drama.
April 6, 2021 at 18:12
(Virgo) LotusStar » Trevor777
Thanks for your reply, I think I am seeing that most whole signs users focus on traditional rulers up to Saturn.
April 6, 2021 at 19:09
(Capricorn) Emanuel
Mostly traditional rulers (and actually it make more sense as modern rulers are very slow moving planets),but... I tend to look more at modern rulers (even interpretation of planet in sign and house) if it make important aspects to personal planets in the chart.
April 6, 2021 at 19:15
(Capricorn) Emanuel » Rosincvist
Interesting. I read somewhere that actually many interpretation for Pluto are similar with those for Saturn. Neptune also.
April 6, 2021 at 19:33
(Capricorn) Emanuel » LotusStar
"With Placidus you´d have a big emphasis in the 10th house, would mean someone quite career/status oriented, but with whole signs, all the Pisces energy would fall into the 9th giving you a stellium there, making you more interested in exploring different spiritual and philosophical teachings, and law. "

In whole sign the most important house related to your career, path in life, reputation etc is the house where the MC is (and MC in whole sign can be from 8 th house to 12th house,though MC in 10,11 or 9 is the most often situation). The significance of the MC will blend with the significance of the house.
The 10th house is still the house of your reputation, public image etc... It brings another perspective, different from your MC.

For example... As a Cancer Ascendant I have 10th house in Aries, but my MC is in 9th house Pisces (and kinda make sense for a Cancer Ascendant to have MC in Pisces). I relate to the MC in 9th more... But i understand the effect of 10th house Aries too (with Saturn in Aries too).

From Wayman Stewart book

"ARIES ON THE 10TH HOUSE CUSP
Finding your strength and courage is an ongoing goal in life for you, thanks to your Aries Midheaven. You are also going to be able to parlay that aspiration into a career of some sort. Not only do what you want to do something with your life that requires you to be bold and brave, you also want to pursue your calling in life with boldness and bravery. This is due, in large part, to how you deal with fear or insecurity on a regular basis. Even though you may not personally identify with being this warrior type, your place out in the world will require you to be a warrior, in some way. In the process, you will come to understand that being courageous doesn’t necessarily mean not being afraid. It means being afraid but doing what you have to do, anyway.
So, when it comes to your goals in life, your profession, or your public endeavors, if you’re scared to do it, that means that you have to do it. In the 10th House, we are asked to face some sort of challenge and conquer it. But, with Mars, Aries’ ruling planet, ruling your 10th House, you are definitely going to have to face some challenges head-on. You’re also most likely going to have to do it on your own. Learning how to go at it alone, how to pursue something without much approval or help from others, will show you how amazing you can be when you are simply relying on yourself. It’s so much easier for you to turn to your loved ones for comfort or encouragement and with your Nadir in Libra, you can readily fall into co-dependent patterns while doing so. But, having Aries on the Midheaven is all about being independent, blazing your own trail in life and not asking anyone permission to do so.
While adopting and cultivating this public self, you can discover desires and passions that you didn’t even know you had before. This awareness began developing around the time you entered high school. Your teenage years were a period in your life where it was more crucial for you than the next kid to develop a greater sense of agency. Individuating yourself became a very important focus, which may’ve helped you finally stand out from your family, as did becoming more of a leader. Your journey through adulthood involves understanding the importance of assertiveness, something you began realizing from an early age. The 10th House shows the world’s expectations of us and how we can utilize those expectations to get ahead. Aries in the 10th means that the world expects you to be strong, assertive, and individualistic and that you have to express that inner fire in order to gain people’s recognition and respect.
Therefore, any line of work that either puts you out there on the line or requires you to be self-reliant is going to be the right choice for you. Making a career out of being self-employed is a great choice for those with this Midheaven, as you will consistently be forced to show plenty of initiative and independence through such work. You’re also well-suited for any sort of leadership position on the job, as you feel very accomplished whenever you can just strike out and take action and have other people follow suit. Jobs that are highly competitive can also bring out the best in you, requiring you to hustle as hard as you can to stand out and be a winner, as well as anything that is particularly athletic or physical.
The 10th House shouldn’t be used as a rigid career guide because it’s not one size fits all. For you, that’s especially true. Don’t let me or anyone else tell you what you should be achieving in life. Do it your own way! This will be especially important when it comes to your family. They have such a tremendous influence in your life but this is the one area where you’re going to have to forget about their approval. In some cases, those with their Ascendant in Cancer shouldn’t even expect much support from their families in terms of their career. You have to be willing to fight for what you want to do in the world, not letting anyone else dictate what those goals should be. By doing so, you will be defining your true desires and passions as an individual and pursuing them. That’s what’s most important, in the end. This placement is urging you to be truly, fully passionate about your career. If you’re not going after your actual passion in life, you will feel unfulfilled, unrecognized, and unsuccessful.
That strong sense of passion will also characterize your reputation and image. There are many Aries Midheaven people who are viewed as real hotheads by the public. Focusing so much on being assertive, on getting things off your chest, can easily lead to a public self that is always butting heads with others. Sometimes, you become so highly defensive that you end up going on the offense. But, seeing yourself as a sensitive or caring soul, you might find it hard to reconcile your sense of self with the explosive firecracker that the world sees. It’s necessary to recognize when you’re maybe taking it too far or pushing too many buttons. Then, this sense of recurring conflict out in the world starts to feel like a trap, like you’re being restricted by this role of the fighter. You’re always going to be known for that, which is why it’s better to be known as a fighter in a positive sense.
This is when you see the person with this Midheaven who gains high esteem and recognition for being a trailblazer, a person of fierce action, someone who is passionate about their singular vision and will do what it takes to make it happen. You’ve got to develop your aggression and then channel it largely into the pursuit of your goals, instead of the pursuit of conflict in your public or professional life. Risk-taking will be a part of the process, which you’ll find increasingly thrilling and invigorating. Although you generally like to play it safe, making it your strategy to take deliberate or calculated risks will bring you a great amount of professional satisfaction. Your competitive approach to your calling in life can also lead you to not only consistently come in first place but be the first person to do a number of things in your field. It’s also very common for you to be the first, and possibly the only one, to achieve certain things within your family. Regardless of the outcome, establishing a strong sense of individuality will be one of your greatest accomplishments in life.
"

And it kinda make sense for someone who has 4th house in Libra in Whole Sign. 4th house is what we do naturally in our private life. 10th house is quite a tough house... Because we leave the comfort of home and we meet expectations of people

Another link o this topic

https://patrickwatsonastrology.com/…


Wikipedia say this

"The MC in non-quadrant house systems Edit
In the whole sign and equal house systems the Medium Coeli (Midheaven), the highest point in the chart, does not act as the cusp or starting point of the 10th house. Instead the MC moves around the top half of the chart, and can land anywhere in the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, depending on the latitude. The MC retains its commonly agreed significations, but it doesn´t act as the starting point of the 10th house, therefore in Equal house it adds extra definition and meaning to MC and the cusps involved, but always MC is same in interpretations as other house systems.[citation needed]

This is also the more common criticism of the whole sign and equal house method as it concerns the location of the Medium Coeli (Midheaven), the highest point in the chart. In the equal house system, the ascendant/descendant and midheaven/IC axes can vary from being perpendicular to each other (from approx. +-5 deg at most at equator to approx. +-15 degrees at Alexandria to +-90 degrees at polar circle). As a result, equal houses counted from the ascendant cannot in general place the midheaven on the tenth house cusp, where many feel it would be symbolically desirable. Since this point is associated with ambition, career, and public image, the argument is that the Midheaven, therefore, must be the cusp of the similar tenth house. It has also been linked by extension with Capricorn (the tenth sign of the zodiac). Equal house system always takes MC to be first and foremost THE most important indicator of career, but 10th house cusp is simple like a weaker 2nd MC cusp and would be taken into account, but not at the expense of MC. Because the Whole Sign and Equal House system do take the Midheaven into account, but relies on the location of the Ascendant, it can be found anywhere between the 8th and 11th houses.[45]"


Interesting... As many say that Whole Sign system is to" simplistic". Well actually...by taking in consideration the 10th house and the house with the MC i think adds more depth to someone path in life.
April 6, 2021 at 20:25
(Aries) nutelina » LotusStar
>Question for the people who use Whole Signs...
With Whole sign, they don´t pay attention to degrees at all from what I gather. Even if your ascendant falls in 18 Cancer, they consider the whole first house to start and end with Cancer, the whole second house to start and end with Leo, etc.

Thanks for clarifying, I think something might get lost using this crude approach, however I do think some equal size in houses would make sense or maybe it is different for everyone, depending on what is important in their life. Like with the North Node in Virgo, having the Pisces Axis strong, could give a kind of balance. Just trying to fit some logic according to how I know myself.

>With Equal house system, if your ascendant is at 18 degrees, they consider all your following houses start at 18 degrees. With Placidus, the degrees of all your houses can shift because it´s based on some kind of mathematical calculation, and some signs can even be intercepted so that sign doesnt have any rulership on any house.

This makes a lot of sense, I will look into it.

>With Placidus you´d have a big emphasis in the 10th house, would mean someone quite career/status oriented, but with whole signs, all the Pisces energy would fall into the 9th giving you a stellium there, making you more interested in exploring different spiritual and philosophical teachings, and law.

Yah that´s what I found, too much 10th...
April 6, 2021 at 21:55
(Scorpio) OctoberScorpio
I use whole sign, I look at the outer planets and their aspects. but for the chart ruler and houses I apply traditional rulerships. I feel them much more when they change signs and the transitting aspects. Placidus is probably the most popular by default. so I wouldn’t doubt it’s accuracy, for myself is just personal preference. Traditional or hellenistic astrology is gaining popularity imo, which uses whole sign w/ traditional rulers.*(and modern)
April 7, 2021 at 01:42
(Virgo) LotusStar » Emanuel
I also see a lot of similarities between those 3. They each seem to take away something under their transits, for ones own good or not... just my experience.

For transits or solar returns, do you also use more whole signs system and find it accurate?
April 7, 2021 at 01:48
(Virgo) LotusStar » OctoberScorpio
Thanks, this sounds like a good approach. I cant seem to be able to disregard outer planets completely as someone who has a highly aspected outer planet, but I could understand sticking to the traditional rulers for house rulership, and the outer planet being a more background/secondary influence more so for aspects.
April 7, 2021 at 06:51
(Capricorn) Emanuel » LotusStar
For transits I use Whole sign yes.
April 7, 2021 at 12:32
(Taurus) Jimmy77
I use whole sign when using harmonics. it´s just easier since the harmonic charts are all set to whole. more or less for signs it works better. Obviously you won´t get degrees. But most predictive work is generalized anyways. Unless using transits for energies or lots for fortune/Eros etc... D1 D4 D9 comparisons I use whole only.


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