THE PLUTONIANS

November 5, 2021 at 22:43 (UT/GMT)
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
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THE PLUTONIANS
Plutonians remarkably resemble the physical characteristics of their ruler; they always seem distant, indecipherable, cryptic, mired in an observation that is actually supersensible, although not apparent.
I mean a Plutonian is a being who captures everything that surrounds him in a very deep way, but does not look directly in the eye; he captures everything from the side, pretending to be distracted, as if looking elsewhere.

It seems that he/she was always "in the clouds."
But although he/she is capable of going internally to the fifth hells in full conversation, that should not deceive: he is constantly seeing everything with his internal X-rays, with those eyes that seem to look into the deepest abysses through us.

He/she is always watching us as we came into the world, that is, naked in body and soul.
Many times, these people are known to be psychics, that is, they have such a deep perception capacity that others say they are seers, etc.
Another notable relationship is given by the name of the two planets of the system and the particular attraction that Plutonians seem to feel with all things related to death:

Pluto was the god of Hell and Charon the ferryman who carried the souls of the just dead to that place. The very borderline location of the Pluto - Charon system, and the extraordinary characteristics of its orbit, also lead us to a feeling of the frontier of the solar system, a feeling of border, portico, end ... verifiable through statistics .
Indeed, the key feeling of the Plutonians is that of the completion of things, which simultaneously causes fear and atavistic attraction.

The Plutonian is highly aware of the limits, of the constant neighborhood of the end, of the mystery of transformation. This feeling, this constant, perennial contemplation, is what colors every second of the Plutonian´s life, and the cause of most of his moments of distance from others, who do not hesitate to classify him as apathetic. This sentiment is also the reason why the Plutonian is almost always unconsciously boycotting projects, both his own and those of others. It is very difficult for him to be just creative and not destructive at the same time.

He/she has a deep compulsion to abruptly end all things (although on the outside it does not seem that he is the culprit, but others), which often causes his entire life to be tinged with the secret melancholy of things abandoned halfway through and of people forever estranged.

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December 5, 2021 at 11:09
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
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In vedic my Moon in Scorpio...it resonates so much with this position. :122:
December 5, 2021 at 10:56
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There is only so much a person can change and transform especially within ones self that they then fail to be anything. - Taurus Moon opposite Pluto in 8th.

Scorpion energy is not all about just endlessly transforming, you have to have an outlet, Pluto is also a destroyer, but for some reason people use subjective morality to base their ideals upon what cannot be controlled with an ideal.

It is simply not that simple.

Pluto & Moon dominant, Saturn / Uranus 2nd dominant.
Capricorn dominant.
December 5, 2021 at 10:21
(Gemini) AmberMoon » Etherealmind
I found this one quite acceptable actually.

Think of clouds in the underworld.
December 5, 2021 at 10:16
(Gemini) AmberMoon
That is deep. Thank you for sharing.
December 5, 2021 at 07:49
(Scorpio) Heßen Lutz
AstroSeek tells me my dominants are Mars, Jupiter and Pluto with equal score between them.

This description of a Plutonian is very interesting but the Plutonian often also has a piercing glare, especially Scorpios. Another aspect of the Plutonian is that we often rise through our ashes at some point in our lives. Like a Phoenix. This would be an evolved Scorpio placement.

Scorpio Sun, Uranus, Rx Venus and MC as well as Pluto and the North Node in the 8th House.
November 10, 2021 at 09:33
(Leo) Anni23 » Aren Levi
Yes and no

Firstly it appears to come naturally to me.
I´m like a duck that washes shht off it´s back

But then also I have control issues etc likely and it´s a great way to just control what you can and forget about everything else

It´s also good to be calm almost all the time cause occasionally it freaks people out when your like this when you "shouldn´t be" and even then your reaction seems weird, either too removed or by reverse overwrought in its stoicism :4:
Or Alternately suddenly reacting also freaks people :61:

(Having said this it´s worth noting that my Mercury is in Cancer.. so I also have a line to draw somewhere at times :22:
Or maybe this does contribute to my above overall attitude idk)
November 10, 2021 at 08:37
(Virgo) Aren Levi » Anni23
being stoic is boring, is it not ? :4:
November 10, 2021 at 03:24
(Leo) Anni23 » Aren Levi
Right, so I´m very aware that suffering is part of life :61: but in terms of the attitude you can have/develop towards it isn´t it better to become a stoic? And not be bothered by much of what "should not concern us"..

In that case or in any case still we will not necessarily be suffering constantly, or without reason?..

Unless of course some of us are and just aren´t as aware of it :23:

Also aren´t Scorpios stoicsm?
(partially at least)
November 9, 2021 at 23:07
(Virgo) Aren Levi » Anni23
the most suffering can be experienced by suffering alone

only divine can be comfort in such a situation or the fact that those that you love are not suffering ...

its a twisted cicle of pain and love
November 9, 2021 at 15:31
(Leo) Anni23 » Aren Levi
Ahh.. I´m sorry.
We should exchange notes on how to "suffer well" :61:
November 9, 2021 at 02:54
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » Red Lion
:15:
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November 9, 2021 at 01:35
(Pisces) 1janos » ram_goat
This is not an easy read. This is only for those, who want to understand the way an idiot has mislead the non German speaking world, and demonstrates how easy it is to be duped, if you don´t study things thoroughly and in depth.

I am going to describe the profound consequences of the acts of an idiot, whose lack of comprehension of the topic of Psychodynamic Theory and of the German language lead to a devastating misunderstanding and misapprehension of fundamental concepts in English.

James Strachey and others described what happened 40 years after the fact of him and his wife Alix, going to Vienna and spending time with Freud in 1920:

"Looking back forty years later at this turning-point, Strachey commented in a ´disarming passage´ to his fellow analysts on his then qualifications as a psychoanalytic candidate, as compared to modern times: ´A discreditable academic career with the barest of B. A. degrees, no medical qualifications...no experience of anything except third-rate journalism. The only thing in my favour was that at the age of thirty I wrote a letter out of the blue to Freud, asking him if he would take me on as a student´."

He continued by saying that, having spent a couple of years in Vienna, “I got back to London in the summer of 1922, and in October, without any further ado, I was elected an associate member of the Psycho-Analytical Society. ... A year later, I was made a full member. So there I was, launched on the treatment of patients, with no experience, with no supervision, with nothing to help me but some two years of analysis with Freud".

He concluded wryly that the modern "curriculum vitae is essential. Whether it is possible for it to become over-institutionalized is an open question. Is it worthwhile to leave a loophole for an occasional maverick? ... if the curriculum vitae had existed forty years ago, you wouldn´t have had to listen to these remarks tonight".



Their first fateful blunder was, that they decided to translate Freud´s works from German to English without really grasping the depth and simplicity of what Freud established as foundations of his work. The other devastating factor was their subpar understanding of the German language for this purpose. The third one was their taking artistic licence in translating the original concepts.

In one of his last letters to Freud, Ernest Jones wrote that ´You probably know you have the reputation of not being the easiest author to translate´. Certainly when translation into English first began, ´the earliest versions were not always felicitous ... casual and at times fearfully inaccurate´.

The most ´obvious flaw in this translation was the substitution of esoteric neologisms for the plain German terms Freud preferred´. For example his "I" and his "It" become the Ego and the Id. "the translation of instinct for Trieb [Drive in English] ... thus basing the whole concept on a complete misunderstanding since Trieb and instinct have nothing in common". Anyone who reads Freud only in Strachey´s English translation cannot understand Freud´s concern with man´s soul".

While accepting that "Strachey´s translation was also an act of interpretation and it has not been hard to find spots where he went astray", the fact remains that "Freud was delighted with the work Strachey succeeded in doing"; whilst even into the twenty-first century "the German editions have relied on Strachey´s editorial apparatus, which should be a testimony to what he accomplished".


Where Strachey and his wife succeeded admirably was the very thorough editing and referencing of the works.


The most devastating mistake is related to the casual substitution of the German personal pronouns to the Latin based seemingly sophisticated anglicised alternatives.

Ich - which in German - is simply the First Person Singular pronoun: I.

Es - which in German - is simply the Third Personal pronoun: It.

The ultimate aim of Psychoanalysis according to Freud is to amalgamate/integrate I with It.

This is the most profound statement that Freud has ever made. Please notice the similarities between this and the translated Sanskrit "I am That" or go all the way and make the pronouncement like Nisargadatta Maharaj: "I am".

So, due to his profound mistakes, today we are stuck with these totally useless, pretentious and vague concepts, that are utterly misunderstood by members of the English speaking public and professionals and all of those from other backgrounds who have no grasp of the original concepts.

The Super-Ego doesn´t have its roots in Latin. The original term in German was ´Uber Ich´. That means: above the self or conceptually more correctly: Idealised Self. What I aspire to or desire or expect of myself or should be.

So the primary aim of therapy, personal growth or personal development is for the sense of ´I´ to integrate with the sense of ´It´ or ´other´, as guided by the optimized self image.

This is a major ´accomplishment´ and lets face it, regrettably the vast majority of the population never gets near that level of personal growth.

So, to see and relate to the Ego as something evil, wicked, dirty, undesirable, to be wiped out, or overcome, is based on a silly man´s - and his wife´s - misunderstandings of the insights of a genius.

To reach mature level of Ego development is highly desirable and fundamentally important.
November 9, 2021 at 01:27
(Gemini) stigmí » fishscales
You remind me “ Sometimes you have to do something unforgivable , just to be able to go on living. “

Thats what I feel as scorpio energy...it is something that many people cant accept...something going from deep of our past and past of past...
And “Scorpios” can use “bad” energy as engine...
November 8, 2021 at 22:11
(Virgo) Turbo TJ » ram_goat
Is astrology a popular subject in prison?


Not at all. I was at a institution with 2,500 inmates. I only came across a few scattered individuals who had very little bits of knowledge of Astrology... I had just begun my journey down the rabbit hole of astrology maybe 1 year before my crime. Then inside the joint during the summer of 2017 at the time of the great American solar eclipse I started my yearly subscription to the magazine "The Mountain Astrologer". This magazine became my study guide and tool for developing more of my understanding of astrology.
November 8, 2021 at 21:55
(Aries) ram_goat » brookirenee
and he is extremely possessive and intense

wouldn´t be surprised if he had some bad aspect between pluto/moon/venus going on. Those tend to be jealous types. With anything pluto/scorp related, it´s always several layers deep. Possessive is what you see on the surface, below that, obsessive, one level below that, fearful, below that, insecure..

If you follow things to their roots and foundations with pluto people, it really isn´t so complicated. What complicates things are those many many middle layers between the symptom and the cause. This middle zone is a very murky and confusing place for these pluto types themselves. Often so befuddling they retreat into shyness or art or simply silence and solitude.

Pluto is not the most complex psychology- only for the ones who must live it, but it can be said that they are too close to the individual trees to be able to recognize the forest.

Just consider root causes with these people, and be aware that they themselves are often utterly lost in the middle layers between cause and outward expression. This brings us back to personal evolution and why the failure rate is so high with plutonian types. They get lost in the middle somewhere. For all that perceptive nature they are born with, they might as well not have any at all, for what good use they make of it in solving their own problems.

.
November 8, 2021 at 21:48
(Aries) ram_goat » brookirenee
Hard to say which is more accurate. I have Gemini moon in Vedic, but I also have many things in gemmi to begin with, in my western chart. Comparing too much never got me anywhere, so I don´t do it too much. I will look at Vedic or other charts, like Chinese astrology, just for some insight, but I don´t get too deep into these systems.
November 8, 2021 at 21:27
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » ram_goat
System message: Post has been written by user brookirenee, who already deleted profile on this website:
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moon in fall says it all

what nice word play
thank you for your insight (:
my partner has a scorpio moon
and he is extremely possessive and intense
but he’s also a libra moon in vedic so I’m just gonna pretend his vedic chart is more accurate lol
November 8, 2021 at 20:59
(Aries) ram_goat » Turbo TJ
My last 2 years of sentence I wrote a book about addiction and prison through an Astrological lens.

Is astrology a popular subject in prison?
November 8, 2021 at 20:58
(Aries) ram_goat » Etherealmind
Then I heartily invite you to ignore my voice and not read what I post, and I will extend to you the same courtesy.
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November 8, 2021 at 20:17
(Aries) ram_goat » brookirenee
Moon in Fall kind of says it all. Most people that have it dislike it, complain about it sometimes, but overall, the same dynamic as any other scorp placement.. either master the challenges or let the challenges become your master.

The rest is just details.

Personally, I find Scorp moons to be highly perceptive, but as always with any
scorp placement, the water is usually badly muddied by the usual scorp failings and impulses: paranoia, obsession, secrecy, mistrust, a need for control, deep seated & unresolved insecurity.

All figments of the ego, again.. ego and this sign.. a complicated and troubled relationship
November 8, 2021 at 20:06
(Virgo) Aren Levi » Anni23
:4:
lady, all of my 1st house is same in vedic and tropical charts

i am scrop in all the charts no matter what


.... i am "daddy" scorpio
November 8, 2021 at 17:15
(Virgo) Turbo TJ
Very interesting thread here. I most def relate with your :178: content and can validate the :178: :160: compulsions.

I have 8th house Sun Mercury Venus along with Scorpio Moon Saturn and Pluto. Saturn my chart ruler is in Scorpio. I recently just got released from prison after serving a 7 year sentence for a violent crime. My last 2 years of sentence I wrote a book about addiction and prison through an Astrological lens.
I wrote a chapter descriptively covering the time of my Saturn return where Pluto was nearing my Asc within 2° when I was manufacturing methamphetamine and end up attempting to kill my son´s mother´s drunk step father for abusing my 3 year old son in middle night. Even after I´ve told this man that my son is telling me about the abuse, and it better not happen again. I also had lots of hate and aggression toward this family for narking on me for cooking dope. I committed a home invasion landing me behind bars.
November 8, 2021 at 16:09
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » ram_goat
System message: Post has been written by user brookirenee, who already deleted profile on this website:
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What’s your opinion on a Scorpio moon ?
November 8, 2021 at 10:16
(Leo) Red Lion
This is what you get when death is someone´s constant companion.
November 8, 2021 at 08:09
(Aries) ram_goat » 1janos
Ego noun, plural e·gos.

1. the “I” or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.

2. Psychoanalysis. the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.

3. egotism; conceit; self-importance: Her ego becomes more unbearable each day.

4. self-esteem or self-image; feelings: Your criticism wounded his ego.

5. (often initial capital letter)Philosophy.
a. the enduring and conscious element that knows experience.
b. Scholasticism. the complete person comprising both body and soul.

6. Ethnology. a person who serves as the central reference point in the study of organizational and kinship relationships.

**

I think 5b is what most people understand and mean when they say ego. I certainly had this definition in mind when I wrote. If I were to put a finer point on it, I would go with definition 2.

.
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