Moon in Scorpio - Fall - Discussions, questions

Random Stranger » Random Stranger (I realised that it’s infamously rare to put Scorpio in a positive light. This post isn´t helping. It’s really hard, but sometimes, you have to give the devil his due.)

- Introduction -

The Moon is in fall in Scorpio. Scorpio and Capricorn (the Moon’s detriment) are the hardest signs for the Moon to be in. In Scorpio, Lunar significations such as (but not limited to) comforts, emotions and nurture are disrespected. Life is unsupported here; the Moon is unhappy to act on behalf of Mars, whose desires conflict with the Moon’s. You could say the Moon is ignored or disrespected here.

- Scorpio’s Qualities -

Polarity: Nocturnal
Mode: Fixed
Element: Water
Ruler: (Mars)
Symbol: (Scorpion)

- Positives -

However, not everyone with this placement is doomed to failure. If one transforms into the Phoenix, they can harness the best qualities of this placement.

The Moon in Scorpio makes for an excellent psychologist, one who understands how other people work. This is advantageous in understanding and supporting one’s loved ones but also in defeating threats and enemies, spotting their weaknesses. Whether the Moon in Scorpio uses this to help or hurt others is up to them.

The evolved Moon in Scorpio can make for a truly compassionate individual, one who understands and assuages the pain of others. An example is supporting a soldier suffering from PTSD but this is not the only example.

But the Moon in Scorpio can also indicate an emotionally strong/stoic person who can brave all kinds of hardship and pain. This can make a loyal, reliable ally. There is also the grim determination to achieve one’s goals. This Moon sign may do for a ruthlessly protective man/woman, protecting their friends and family.

However, it’s not easy to transform or evolve. That requires opening up to others and letting go of grudges or negative emotions that eat the individual from within. There needs to be a catharsis to release all of it - but unfortunately, that’s not common.

- Negatives -

The Moon nurtures by, paradoxically, stinging others. The Moon’s comfort is in privacy and, paradoxically, intensity. The Moon has to make home in a marshy, dark, dreary, bloody battlefield. Only Mars thrives in such a sign.
Don’t put the receptive Moon on such a battlefield. She’ll be shell-shocked. She’d be giving a two-thousand yard stare.

It’s like having war and death from within: dark, turbulent emotions too uncomfortable and intense for the Moon. Scorpio prevents the Moon from naturally expressing her emotions, hence the adjective “secretive” to describe this sign; Scorpio hides these emotions to avoid being seen as vulnerable or weak, hence its hard exoskeleton.
These emotions are bottled up but don’t dissipate; instead, they grow worse. For example, bottled up anger breeds toxic grudges and a negative, venomous being. Those grudges should’ve been let go of a long time ago, so Scorpio doesn’t obsess over butchering or poisoning those who have wronged them. Okay, Scorpio doesn’t always obsess over revenge.

Whilst determination is generally a positive, there is the risk of becoming so obsessed with one’s goals that one heartlessly tramples on others to achieve them; climbing the social ladder or getting noticed by someone, who knows?

The Moon in Scorpio does not believe in the goodness of others. By always keeping its emotional exoskeleton/armour on, it stays distant from others at the cost of relationships. Scorpio may be so paranoid as to believe that others are plotting its downfall. The lesson should be to trust others more. However, you’re not paranoid if you’re proven correct.

Scorpions aren´t the only nocturnal predators. Vampires are predators too.
Emotional vampirism is definitely a risk with this placement: draining others or getting drained emotionally. This is where abuse, manipulation, both neglect and jealousy/possessiveness thrive: by feeding on, not feeding, the vitality of others.
Interestingly, Bram Stoker, author of Dracula (the world’s most famous vampire), had the Sun and Moon in Scorpio.

- Conclusion -

The Moon is in fall in Scorpio because her nature contradicts Mars’ and Scorpio’s. She nurtures life; Scorpio kills life.
You can’t be emotionally open or vulnerable without expecting risk. Therefore, it’s hard (but not impossible) to be motherly in the nocturnal home of Mars.
Interestingly, though they are trine, the rulers of Cancer (the Moon) and Scorpio (Mars) are in fall in each other’s sign.

Why should you be motherly in a fight, let alone a war? Why should you care for someone who doesn’t care for you, or more accurately, wants you dead? Why should you keep caring for someone who benefits at your expense?

In Scorpio, it’s safer and easier to give a cold shoulder than a shoulder to cry on. There are strengths to being a wholly martial beast like Scorpio. But there are weaknesses too.

JayJayAstrology I have such a different feel for the planets (including the luminaries) than anyone thinking in terms of exaltation, dignity, fall and detriment.

To me, the Moon is super sensitive to the energies of all the other planets and signs. It receives. It feels. It reflects back what it receives. It´s a state of sensitive reception in my mind. So it is sensitive to all signs and houses. It receives the energies there without any subjectivity. It reflects without subjectivity. It just does its thing - receives, feels, reflects. There are some who say that the Moon receives all the energy from the planets and disperses it throughout the earth.

So whatever sign and house it is in - it does this. If it is in Scorpio, it still does its thing. It receives, feels and reflects. So, I think in Scorpio, it will participate in its characteristic way in response to the way a person responds to Scorpio. Scorpio is about bonding. We can bond to people, ideas, ideals, behaviors . . . so wherever the Moon in Scorpio is, it will tend to be involved and bonding to the activities of that house. It will add sensitivity into the process. The person will feel it all the more. It will add focus there. And it will be a big part of that person.

I don´t think the planets really like or dislike a sign or house. I don´t think they make those judgements. We do. As an astrologer, I try very hard to just see how a planet, with its particular energetic qualities, will be used by the person with the sign´s qualities it is in.

When I was learning astrology, I was taught the essential dignities too. But over the years, I found that it just doesn´t work for me. I have evolved the way I see it over time as I read more charts . . . and I have to say, the way I see it now, seems to resonate with most people I read for. It doesn´t mean that certain placements or configurations aren´t more challenging than others, but it isn´t due to detriment or fall. It´s more about how each part supports the whole in moving the energy in the chart. Energy must move. When reading a chart, we are reading how the energy is moving. And yet, no matter how unsupportive a chart seems to be - there are always possibilities to rise above any stuck place. It´s all how we see it and respond to the energies we are using.

The language of fall and detriment - makes one think that the effect has no other possibility but to be less than good or best. I just don´t think it´s true. I think anyone with a planet in fall or detriment, can utilize that placement in a highly positive way.
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Random Stranger It’s been two days since the last post. I’m not content with letting it end like this. It’s time I talk about traits of the Moon in Scorpio, even though I don’t have this placement. Not everyone with this placement is the same. Not everyone is vengeful or manipulative. Some with this Moon sign are genuinely sweet unlike the sign itself.

NOTE: The expression of the Moon in Scorpio varies not only by the aspects and house of the Moon (she joys in the 3rd), but also the placement and aspects to Mars (he joys in the 6th). Some write Pluto as the ruler (or a co-ruler) of Scorpio but I reject this; I also reject ties between Scorpio and the 8th house (unless one has Aries rising). Only consider Pluto if he aspects the Moon. Finally, the sect of the chart matters. Someone born at day (with the Sun above the AC/DC axis) will generally receive worse significations of this placement, as the Moon and Mars are out of sect. Conversely, someone born at night (with the Sun below the AC/DC axis) will generally receive better significations.

ciocia.matylda Hi,
I highly recommend watching this video on scorpio moon - https://youtu.be/C03NtN98N_U
As a scorpio moon, I agree 100% with everything said there.

Plus, I believe every positive essential dignities of planets (like domicile or exaltation) means the flow of energy in particular area is light, natural, constant, while when it comes to fall or even detriment, the flow is more challenging, its more rough, could be irregular. The energy of scorpio in emotions and other moonish areas is challenging, but not in a way most people think. It´s not that scorpios don´t have tools to process their emotions (and emotions of surrounding cause they attract and collect energies that require transformation), it´s just the emotions and things they go through are truly dark and intense and thus, their coping mechanisms and healing process can come in waves, in some parts/moments can be abrupt and in others take really long time as they are a fixed sign and need to establish everything on their own terms, even when it comes to inner, emotional life.

Hope this is at least somehow helpful, sending much positivity your way.

nutelina » Ksuwaves I liked this answer; simple and to the point.

viv » Random Stranger Thinking about Pluto
One astro teacher of mine said he thought Pluto should always be thought of with Persephone, or in the Hindu tradition Shiva with Kali. Mother Kali is worshipped because she brings an end to illusion. She was created out of Parvatis sacrifice to destroy the demons.

So when we experience being stripped naked by these archetypes it isn’t random or wanton. It has helped me to remember that Kali has a golden core. You can give your hatred, rage, fear and despair to Maa Kali in her blue black form and she will transform it and appear as golden, giving you back golden energy. That’s transformative!

viv » Richh3 Thanks for sharing Rich
I was just in an online seminar with a “famous” astrologer who talked about his own eighth house Mars in Cancer .. he said it helps him dive in deep through the astral layers of other peoples psyches, which of course if used without discretion or for selfish reasons could be intrusive. With your deep sensitivity you might have similar abilities? Btw many people use 10-12 degrees gof aspects to the luminaries I use 10.

viv » Random Stranger Well the eighth is the house of death and transformation after all, why would any planet or luminary be comfortable? My Moon is there and I feel it allows me to bring insight and nurture to others..the trine to the Sun certainly helps!

Ksuwaves » Random Stranger I believe that the ancients didn’t see anything wrong with Mars as ruler of Scorpio only because the knowledge about Pluto wasn’t available at that time. I agree that both of these planets are harsh and deal with death, destruction, control and dominance, After all, war - it’s all about it. The difference in my opinion is that Mars doesn’t care about deep psychological understanding or anyone’s transformation or a soul growth. It’s mission is to conquer and fight on a very primal level and establish dominance for the sake of proving who is in charge. It conquers and moves forward to the next challenge for the sake of a competition. It always on a move on in a battle ground. Pluto doesn’t care about competition as it’s already knows it’s power. It doesn’t care about war for the sake of war either. A war (Mars) brings death and wounding and Pluto IS death and wounding. It knows it’s power because no one can avoid death and by wounding it shows a “weakness”, so leaving a choice to blame a “war” or address what made you weak to become wounded, where the transformation comes. Again, only my opinion, but I think both of these characteristics really do fit a Scorpio personality. Possibly, there are other explanations to this in Vedic astrology which I am not aware about. I study western astrology and adding Pluto to Scorpio sign makes a lot of sense to me.

Ways_of_Leavin' » Richh3 Cancer is very sensitive on the Asc (I see the Asc more as how we ´meet the world´, for a lack of a better or longer explanation - as opposed to just a mask). Your chart ruler is ofc Moon, and placed in Scorpio...yes I believe your words. Moon is additionally in a fixed house so you have double the fixed influence to it. From what I´ve read other people could easily bring you in tears... Double fixed could make you prone to hold on to emotions and people. Virgo is also one of the more sensitive signs. Probably you are someone who tend to worry a lot.

I wonder if that Jupiter on your Neptune has the effects of "expanding" your sensitivity.

I noted you also have a Moon quincunx Saturn.

It´s good to hear that things have been getting much better for you though:) (Sensitivity and emotion can also be very pleasurable, can´t they?...) With your Sun conjunct Pluto transformation is inevitable

Random Stranger » Ksuwaves I agree with what you said about Pluto. Parental neglect and abuse is something I would never put past this sign.
However, I believe Scorpio’s harshness really comes from Mars. Scorpio’s desire to control and dominate is because of Mars, which is incompatible with the Moon’s desire to nurture and be nurtured. Mars fits the themes of death and destruction far better than you may think.

A lot of what Pluto does is unrelated to Scorpio. Rulerships weren’t about affinity or synergy. They were really about ownership and hospitality. I guess people in the past didn’t see anything wrong with Mars’ rulership of Scorpio until they suddenly thought it was “deficient” when Pluto was discovered.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme…

Ksuwaves » Random Stranger I agree Transformation is being overused but it’s only loose it’s meaning when used by and spoke to those who are unfamiliar to it’s process. It’s similar to the “self love” that everyone is advertise and throw without real understanding what it means and people who really struggle with that cannot get it and feel worse when told to love themselves because it’s only can be understood through the experience. “Evolved” Scorpio moon is something. The thing is that you have to see the darkness, feel the darkness and live the darkness before you can heal it. Scorpio moons live it in depth of the soul so they can spot it in others and either use it or heal it, but that’s only because they already went through something similar either in the past life or this life that’s why they can spot and see it easily. Yes, I also agree about the mother (or a Cancer moon) expected to heal and help with the child’s trauma. In contrary, it said many Scorpio (not all, of course) moon’s don’t get such support from their mothers, so they left alone to deal with their intense emotions and traumas and in a substitute for nurturing they receive controlling, manipulative and/or emotionally unavailable parent (the dark side of Pluto), so it’s far from the comfort home. So yes, the “wounding”, because they just know exactly how it works 😞. Water signs definitely associated with the healing, but the healing of Pluto is very different from nurturing and caring healing of Cancer and from unconditional and universal love healing of Pisces. Pluto on its own is very harsh, it has no mercy really, as it heals through distraction and death it strikes to the very core, rip out pieces and leaves you out bleeding until you figure out what part of yourself you didn’t wanted to see and let go.

viv » Turbo TJ Thanx for this Turbo

viv Interesting links thank you.

My sense of what the Moon is comes from an hermetic view. Moon is the last sphere the incarnating soul enters after preparing other qualities in the planetary spheres en route. In the Moon sphere we encounter the ancestral family lines that have come together. We unite at some point with the fertilised embryo and begin to co work with the processes of cell division and neurological growth that occur during prenatal life. Rudolf Steiner describes this and so does Michael Newton author of life between lives. Therefore the Moon in a natal chart gives some indication of the nature of this process of incarnation in utereo and during birth. We can look at pre natal eclipses too. Stan Grof, Rick Tarnas and friends speak of the influence of the outer planets during the birth process. That’s another post!


I look to the Moon in a natal chart to tell me about the person’s feeling of being welcomed through this embryonic process, is there a good match with the mother for instance, did she welcome the baby? I look for the clues as to the quality of early attunement and nurturing, leading to secure or ambivalent /insecure attachment in infancy, and in general to the person’s feeling of secure embodiment and the ability to give and receive nurture, including for themselves.


Asteroids such as Demeter and Artemis conjunct the Moon can support the Moon in different ways. Black Moon Lilith conjunct and square can indicate ancestral trauma in my experience. This can be severe enough that a person becomes suicidal if they do not have help in bringing the old stories to light and releasing them so they can be free to live their own lives.



The old picture of the Sun being held within the crescent Moon seems important to me. I regard Sun as the spiritual intent to be here on earth, fully present in physical form in the life. The Moon, including the physical embodiment process, family and culture are like layers which the spiritual individual needs to encounter and transform in the first 24 years, which is how long it takes for humans to become physically mature.


I believe every psychological defence aka “inner critic” we encounter in our inner work relates to “instinctive” protective beliefs and behaviours around safety, trust, self esteem, belonging and productivity that really relate back to the first seven years under the influence of the Moon. I like to help people engage and educate these “inner critics,” so that they can co exist with their radiant Sun selves, do what they came to do and find true soul mates.



Emotional development begins early of course but I don’t believe we are really free of societal influences, and then not always, until after Moon return at 27 and Saturn return at 29-30. We can then choose how connected we are to family of origin. Saturn calls us back into incarnation and the Moon makes physical embodiment possible. We work through what we have been given and learn to stand for ourselves.



Thus every placement of the Moon tells a long story! I’m not that sure that classical indicators as to exaltation and fall are always relevant. More important is the person’s relation to the energies (divine beings) working from one or another zodiacal direction. One of the reasons I don’t do charts without interacting with the client is that I need an intuitive sense of their individuality!


Thus the whole question as to qualities of a “Scorpio Moon” will depend on the individual working with these energies.



Aspects are important too. I look especially to the inter relationship of Sun, Moon and Saturn and then connections to the inner planets. Aspects to the outer planets can be harder to make personal when young and sometimes maybe problematic. For instance when I see Moon /Pluto in a young person’s chart I’ll consider the transpersonal journey as best I can but I’ll also be looking for other strengths in the chart to help the person handle this kind of power while still being able to have or to develop everyday nurturing relationships.

Best Viv

viv » cubic Yes interesting I think potentially Moon Scorpio could be incisive and helpful but there’s also that scanning for danger, whether that be real in the present moment or not. Needs a good analytical mind alongside.

viv » cubic Hi Cubic
thanks for comment. It wasn’t a physical attack and I wouldn’t link a particular sign to actual murder either. It was a totally unexpected psychological attack in a group setting.The psychic energy I felt was murderous, but in that setting with others present, I was not at physical risk. It did feel like she was unhinged though. Sharing as an example of Mars working through Moon and wondering if my sense of risk of physical attack comes from her Scorpio Moon exactly conjunct my Asc and thereby square my Sun.

I tried to work out if and how I might have hurt her, and asked same, but got a continuing onslaught of wild accusations.One lot was via WhatsApp to a group we were both involved in to which I replied very simply. More by email, which as far as I know have remained private. It really did feel like an ongoing psychic attack until I invoked protection and stepped aside. I’m OK but bemused and it appears the relationship has died.

I have actually worked with female inmates who had killed and some I felt had hair trigger reactions which might make them a risk again. But this woman was not a client and I wasn’t “ on guard” like in a prison of course!

Ta Viv

viv » Random Stranger Hey thanks
Yes I have the chart but don’t have permission to comment publicly. I think the lesson for me was to be able to feel, but ultimately not identify with the feelings but let go. She tells me she works from the “ heart of love and light “ so I’ll just leave her there! May it be so.

Turbo TJ I have in the 10th house conjunction to . At times I get very angry over slightest situations. Can let the hate boil and brew to the point of wigging out on everyone. Very dark and evil attitude toward the world in general. Went through a gothic phase where died hair black and makeup and all. Dont usually open up emotionally to others but when I do I open all the way up. Hard to trust others at first but when I do I trust deeply. Hate getting my feelings hurt will expose anyone´s faults when they do hurt my feelings. Very vengeful and resentful toward those who oppose me.

But on the more positive side. I have a great loving heart to those who shown me they deserve it. Love to study occult and paranormal subjects. Have an excellent memory. Will return favor to those who help me.

Scorpio moon may be negative vibes in me most the time, but when I do allow myself to open up to the transformative vibes I can feel it lift me higher than the evil brooding

Random Stranger » Ksuwaves I get what you’re coming from. I think Mars and Pluto do conflict with the Moon; in fact, I already said that Mars’ nature conflicts with the Moon’s.
However, even though I believe that Scorpio can transform into the Phoenix, I still find “transformation” to be such an overused word that it’s kind of meaningless.

I reserve the “healing” aspect to an EVOLVED Scorpio Moon. Aren’t mothers expected to nurture their children, which includes healing their trauma? Sure it’s uncomfortable, but I think Cancer (ruled by the Moon) is capable of healing too, so it’s not mostly Scorpionic. Healing is more watery, really. Of course, water doesn’t define the water signs themselves, nor the other way around.
Other than that, I think “wounding” would be more accurate for this placement. What is that venomous tail for anyway?

Ksuwaves Moon is a ruler of Cancer and a placement of home, nurturing and a mother. Scorpio ruled by Mars and Pluto, that associate with “war””death”, and “power” in where the home is, which the opposite of comforting, cozy and secure feeling. Transformation and a healing of self and others of psychological traumas cannot be a comfortable process to say the least so it’s a very intense placement for the Moon to be in.

Emanuel https://www.youtube.com/watch/…

cubic » viv "I didn’t respond in public but I really felt as if she meant to kill me."

"She wouldn’t meet"

Does that mean that nothing really happened in reality, but you felt like she had the intention to kill you?

Idk about jumping on correlating Moon in Scorp with some kind of brutality like that. Most people have nothing to do with murders and all that business, and I don´t think anyone has found correlation with Moon in Scorp and serial killers so..

By the sound of your story it sounds like you did absolutely nothing to provoke that situation, there was no build up, she just came outta nowhere like a crazy woman and it seemed to you like she wanted to kill you.

Random Stranger » viv Whoa! It’s a relief knowing you’re fine. I guess THAT would be a (but not the only) negative expression of the Moon in Scorpio. Do you have the rest of her chart?

viv Interesting thread for me.
I have Scorpio rising and a month ago experienced an attack I didn’t expect by woman whose Scorpio Moon is exactly conjunct my Asc. I didn’t respond in public but I really felt as if she meant to kill me. She wouldn’t meet and emails did not help. No matter my insight that I may have exposed her vulnerability or perhaps she was jealous ... None of my detatched analysis helped. I had to own feeling hurt and angry. I really felt I narrowly avoided being ripped apart ! Whew.

Random Stranger » (dragonfly) I agree. The Moon (and any other planet) in the 8th can be beneficial depending on other factors (e.g. aspects). The 8th house is often considered unfortunate, but it doesn’t always have to be so in a person’s chart.

However, going back to the Moon in Scorpio and finishing with the 8th house, I reject the 12 Letter Alphabet. Unless you have Aries rising, the 8th house isn’t a Scorpionic house. There are no natural rulers of any of the houses. However, there are planetary joys (e.g. Mars in the 6th), although no planet joys in the 8th.
I’m disregarding a person’s whole chart to focus on the Moon to broadly describe how it expresses itself and why.

That said, one should also take sect into account if looking at one’s own or another’s natal chart. Someone born at day (the Sun above the AC/DC axis) will generally (not always) receive worse significations of the Moon in Scorpio; the Moon and Mars are out of sect. In contrast, someone born at night (the Sun below the AC/DC axis) will generally receive better significations.