thoughts on: a Good Chart, Bad Chart, Interesting Chart, Challenging Chart .....?????..... - Discuss

pluto°rising » Sizwe In my opinion yes, only in the holder of the chart. To clarify ..by saying "depends on the angle from which it´s viewed" I meant, the angle from which I view it. There are so many angles from which I view nearly everything. Lots of arrays in this corner!

Sizwe » pluto°rising Interesting array of thoughts indeed. The last paragraph has given me something to really think about. But do you think the answer to the question lies in the mind of the beholder of the chart?

zarko22 » MagentaP I don´t look at astrology as a mirror in which I want to be beautiful. Astrology is here to show us the way, to be an accurate guide with clearly written our + and - phases of life. Hellenistic and medieval astrology have that, clear and precise techniques when a planet "works" in our chart. Let me joke, although it is true somewhere, traditional astrology clearly determines which planet is "on duty" for a certain period and how long it will last.
Modern astrology will never have that quality.

Gunnar Stars » MagentaP Hi MagentaP, So sorry I didn´t see your question! My artist aspects is for me represented in the big three of mine, plus a strongly aspected Neptune in 5th and a Venus in late degree oob. I also have sun, Mercury, Ceres and Chiron in tenth house Taurus and a second house filled with stuff. I love to create "values" as paintings. Does it make sence?

JayJayAstrology » MagentaP My pleasure. Yes, lots of great comments and a valuable thread. Thanks for posting!

MagentaP » JayJayAstrology Thank you JayJay, I know I speak for myself and others here in saying your input is always very valuable. I have to say I am happy I knew nothing about astrology in my 20s and 30s so I did not fall into thinking there was some preordained fate written in the stars. This conversational thread has been helpful. My take, astrological charts are like everything else in life - there are opportunities and blockages, how it all plays out is entirely in the hands of the chart holder. I love your closing statement:

" There are people with highly supportive charts, that don´t take advantage of it! So, truly, it depends upon our consciousness, our ability to rise above or meet our challenges, and our responses to planetary energies."

That sums up the sentiment that I think all have expressed here in a nutshell. As always, thanks for sharing your astrological wisdom....

JayJayAstrology This is actually a very good question. But it isn´t easy to answer. I´m definitely a person who believes that squares challenge us to grow and change rather than block us - but the truth is, people experience squares both ways. There are also supportive charts and charts that offer little support for positive change - or you could say good and bad charts. So, the two are both "right".

I think the problem of language here is more about how one views life and spirit. If you believe that consciousness is bigger than the chart, and that we have choices in how we respond to planetary energy, then the language that squares offer opportunity for change is embraced. If you think you have no power in the matter, then a square could be experienced as a block that you cannot overcome.

It´s really an attitudinal or philosophical difference. Either way, whether you see a square as a block or challenge - in both cases, there is something to overcome - a conflict to resolve or not resolve. So, do we accept that we are blocked and give up? Or do we accept the challenge and grow and change? This is why I prefer the language of "challenge to grow" rather than "block". Of course, I have no doubt that some people experience a square as a block. The difference is only in the response to it. Do we expect life to not have any challenges? Do we expect not to need to grow or change? Do we accept defeat? Or do we accept the challenge and work at it - even if it takes years?

Now, I do think that some people´s charts offer less support for growing and changing - which means, the person has to rise above the planetary energy - and in some cases - support from other people really can help a lot. When I see a chart that seems to offer little support for resolving conflict, I really feel for that person. There are stuck places, and it can be depressing to be in one. However, I don´t believe in a hopeless chart, because there are always positive choices that can be made - steps that take us in a positive direction.

There are people with highly supportive charts, that don´t take advantage of it! So, truly, it depends upon our consciousness, our ability to rise above or meet our challenges, and our responses to planetary energies. In my mind, the positive message that we CAN deal with our challenges and grow from them, helps a great deal - even if no one can deny that some challenges are very difficult and take a long time to overcome. Life is not easy. At 70, I´m still working on some core challenges - but each year, I´ve gotten better. This gives me purpose and meaning in life. I may not have changed as much as I like, but I have taken my challenges seriously. Change is meaningful and I think, it´s the only power we have in life. We have very little power over other people, culture, politics and events, but we can change ourselves.

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MagentaP » viv Greetings Viv,

Yes, with Pluto a top 3 dominant in my chart as well, I can completely relate to your experience: "Pluto ruling and all the projections and power plays I tend to have to dodge coz of people being jealous or fearful"


I see you have 8th house moon, my is 8th house sun - a Pluto house. I recently read someones take on 8th house sun (not sure if they applied it to moon as well). That an 8th house sun has a lot of ´Pluto´ energy thrown at them, but never uses the same ´Pluto´energy in response. In my experience, the dark side of Pluto energy is all about gaining power and winning no matter what, acting on jealousy and fear with no sense of reason. Seriously, I am only human and hope that that concentration on dark energy makes their internal life miserable. I am just so over confronting that energy. I crave tranquility and an easy flow of energy....

Here´s to hoping a break is on the way....

Thanks again for your very interesting insights!

viv » MagentaP Hi Magenta
My chart is actually quite challenging too! Yod Pluto and Neptune to Mars Venus 4th. I believe it’s about constantly challenging and refining what love and desire mean. Venus is stronger so it means offering to what’s needed.
There’s an air sun and moon which is easy but that same sun is square Saturn and Asc and also square Jupiter in seventh. As you know handling a T square is not easy coz you need to take hold of the central planetary energy and work creatively with the squares so as not to constantly be caught up in the opposition.For me that’s the tension between inner and and outer, the need to give form to my dreams and spiritual impressions coz I want to as opposed to responding to what others ask of me.The partial resolution is communication and I’m thankful for the out of sign conjunction of Mercury in Capricorn which has a degree of order and logic!

None of its survival stuff but it’s challenging enough, not to mention Pluto ruling and all the projections and power plays I tend to have to dodge coz of people being jealous or fearful. Lots to do with death at different levels too. So not a rest incarnation!
Thanks for asking. Best Viv

MagentaP » Turbo TJ Greeting Turbo TJ,


Thanks for your honesty. Interesting, in comparing our chart ´afflictions´ I note some similar aspects. Sun and Mercury 8th, Sun (for me) in multiple heavy T-Squares, including with Saturn and Pluto, Chiron, Uranus, but not mars as yours includes. Your Saturn plays with your moon, mine with my sun. In terms of ´violence´, some have said of my chart with so many blockages that I could be ´violent´, but the reality is I cannot even look at violence on TV. Also, mine is female energy - which I am sure is a big difference on how charts manifest. However, yours manifested in your own words - some violent behaviour. I guess the moral is a chart cannot predict or map behaviour, our environment and circumstance has a lot to do with how our ´charts´ - ourselves - unfold. Thanks for the valuable input!

MagentaP » Castlewallsxo Thanks for that Castelwallsxo,

A focus on the positive.... starts now.... ....

MagentaP » pluto°rising Thanks for those true words of wisdom GirlPlaysguitar,

Swimming with the current (or better yet floating) is something I still have to learn to do. That damn tendency to swim against the current (fight for what is right, correct things, make it perfect...etc) has caused me quite a lot of lost time and has let life pass me by in many key respects....


I think my views on my T-squares have been severely influenced by the first person who commented on my chart when I started learning astrology. Her view (and she was an astrologer but did not know it was my chart so she spoke freely) was that mine was the chart of a ´serial killer´ - too many heavy hitter challenges and blockages to the sun would make the chart holder go off the rails. Serial Killer, ugh, I am a vegetarian since 1983....so...

I have recently thought I do have to try and go with the flow and see where it takes me....I wonder if it is possible....

Thanks again from when T-squared girl to another...

Turbo TJ » Travelguy35 I say yes sir you def have an intriguing chart. Everything wedged in together within 3 signs except the Aries moon. Mars right on the Asc very active and driven Pluto leading Oriental ruling your sun in his own sign. Very powerful presence to the public. Aries moon as the handle of the bucket chart pattern shows tempers can get the best of you and spin out of control.

Very interesting for sure

Turbo TJ Hi there. I was just reading all the post here and this interesting topic.

I argue that a good aspect can manifest in negative way. Example like a flowing trine can to easily usher in the free flow of a negative streak.

Now in my behalf I have been told I have a very challenging chart. T-square to the 8th house Virgo Sun from Chiron opposing Mars Uranus conjunction. Then have a challenging Aries point square involving Venus to Jupiter Neptune conjunction 8-12 house. And Saturn conjunction moon in Scorpio 10th. With Saturn sitting right on the mc.

During my first Saturn return 7.5 yrs ago I commit a seriously violent crime landing me behind bars for 7 years. Saturn is just now making his first square and I get released out of prison and transfer to a halfway house for few month´s.

The Scorpio moon in her fall has me very intense emotionally extremes from love to hate and pure disgust. Conjunction to Saturn makes it easier for me to hate and be closed off to the world of emotions. Saturn contacts sun Moon Asc and MC. Ruling my chart. I´m very hateful with my approach toward life. But do have good work ethics and good discipline when I actually apply myself to the task at hand.

pluto°rising » MagentaP This is my view now but don´t be fooled, I´ve spent many a day struggling and wishing I was someone else, somewhere else.

A general rule during life is that we sink or swim, and if one is unable to swim, learning to float is essential. But to float one must relax while struggling - a scary thought during a struggle, trust in self is required. Floating is the one action guaranteed to prevent drowning when navigation functions suffer. By allowing the current you harness its power instead of being a victim of it.

I barely know my head from a hole in the ground on most things, especially astrology, but this philosophy offers hope for the challenge of every square, the struggle of every opposition, the endless loop of every trine and the codependency of every conjunction. It just makes me feel better ..lol.

Do I choose challenges because of my chart or did I choose my chart (birth time) because I love a challenge? The answers determined by the angle from which it´s viewed. An interesting array of thoughts I will continue to ponder

Castlewallsxo » MagentaP You also have Jupiter trine Mercury, Venus trine Asc, and Sun trine Asc, which are good!

MagentaP » zarko22 Hmmm, I am not sure any study is ´wrong´ - it is just different. Are you studying vedic, hellenistic? Vedic, for instance, does not resonate with me.... my placements in vedic do not represent me. I have to go with the study of astrology which speaks to me in my tests of my chart and other people´s charts that I know.

What is your view of the right astrology?

zarko22 » MagentaP I like to read the opinions of you who practice transaturnal astrology. It is so good to know that people like to look at aspects first when they doing delineation of the chart 😀😀😀.Noone to mention north/south latitude or phase relative to the Sun or other important things.
In traditional astrology, aspects are, I think, only the seventh factor to consider the power of a planet.
You,people here,you are learning astrowrongy,not astrology

MagentaP » viv Greetings Viv,

Thanks for your thoughts. In an effort to learn, in what way would you say some charts "have supercharged talent"?

On the T-squares - I think I have four - so that would be I choose "difficult times to grow spiritually". I am failing miserably at that, sure I jumped the hurdles that I have constantly come across (except in the last 5 years- in which I am stuck in place). My wish would be "relatively easy lifetimes to rest and give back"...

Your chart appears to my un-trained eye to be balanced. Where do you fit in the spectrum - growth, rest or supercharged?

Thanks for the lovely thoughts...

MagentaP » anotheralex Greeting,

That is interesting, thinking the lack of exact aspects (whether tense or easy) makes it more difficult to see your path. I have to explore that idea further.

On a non-astrological level though, you are still young and maybe just taking longer to work through finding yourself.... which you said is becoming clearer. Sometimes it is just a matter of time....

Thanks for your feedback on your personal experience!

MagentaP » Gunnar Stars Thanks Gunnar Stars...

As a fellow Saturn involved in T-squares (multiple in my case) and an 8th house Sun and Mercury..I feel you! On knowing if yours is a good and bad chart - I think what we are getting from the responses so far is that all have unique charts with our own challenges.....

Help me learn....in what way does your chart signify painter? Are you referring to the Taurus sun? or Venus aspects?

MagentaP » pluto°rising Hi girlplaysguitar!

Oh, what a magnificent view - wish I was a philosophical as you! I get a bit envious of those that don´t have to struggle with issues/circumstance thrown at them so much.

I see your sun and moon are both hit with a parade of squares and opposites...but then as you mention - you would choose the challenge! I am lazier, I can raise to the challenge, but I am tired of so many of them. I could go for some free-flowing easy energy at this point, or rather fewer severe blockages...

Thanks for the enlightened thoughts...

MagentaP » Travelguy35 Intriguing? In an effort to learn more, what specifically and how does it manifest for? The Stellenium? The bunching in one quadrant? I am always keen to learn more!

MagentaP » Castlewallsxo Hi Castelwallsxo,

A very balanced view from a young balanced person. I do see that lovely Grand Earth Trine and am a bit Jealous. I

Thanks for the thoughts of good aspects on my chart. I guess some would say there are a few good ones, but by and large ugh...I mostly feel Saturn T-square and Plutonian energy coming my way near constantly

Interesting your thoughts of a 6th house Stellenium - I think some say 3 planets and some say 4 planets for a Stellenium. I have to explore and learn more to see if I feel it or not...

However, your point on tense aspects is well taken. True in real life someone coddled all the time does not grow! A very helpful view! Indeed, your chart looks balanced to my untrained astrological eye....

Thank you for your thoughts!

MagentaP » Fireyfish Hi FireyFish,

Thanks for that! Yes, I guess we all buck the trend of our chart descriptors! Indeed, while my moon is well aspected I don´t fee Capricorn in anyway. I feel more a Sag, Aries or Gemini moon. Since I don´t feel consensus descriptions of what a Capricorn moon should be it I tend to overlook moon - and overlook it´s trines and sextiles


Anyway, forever learning!

PS. thanks for the friendship request