Planets conjunct a house cusp - what do they mean? - Discussions, questions

Anni23 » Rosincvist Yes I was trying to specify what "that talent" might be. Or inclination, as regards the 4th and 5th house planets. As I disagree with having musical talent and am not especially sure if I am such a devout astrologer

Rosincvist » Anni23 "A talent" not all the talents, but "a talent"

Anni23 » Rosincvist Oh ok I see.... well I do love music. But to my knowledge and I assume that I have no talent there.

Is it generally significant that it is right at the end of my 5th house?

I had supposed any interest I had in astrology would be more 12th house related however.

Though the 4th and 5th houses, which I have in mutual reception contain saturn in Aquarius and Neptune and Uranus, and I still don´t know what overall influence these planets have in these houses.

1janos » Ways_of_Leavin' Hi,

Let me attempt to clarify.
What was found, that only the - so called - hard aspects described anything of use consistently.

So that leaves us with conjunctions (0°), semi-squares / octiles (45°), squares (90°), sesquiquadrates / tri-octiles (135°), and oppositions (180°).

Once the direct midpoints are calculated, the program adds 45° to each and every value, and sorts them into Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable lots. Therefore we do away with signs, houses and other somewhat arbitrary stuff.

Surprisingly enough, there doesn´t seem to be any difference in the descriptions identifiable. The insights, that can be gained, describe a very complex, subtle, in depth and potentially confusing picture. At times only after prolonged examination and contemplation of the findings is it likely, that you will make sense out of what you read. Then, you may discover details about yourself, that you were not aware of before. Most of it will make a great deal of sense.

Some of it is a bit stark and clinical. So, I am afraid there is no room for sentimental, vague, imprecise, wishful thinking. The subtle complexity can be startling and your feelings, fantasies and desires are not taken into account.
The brief descriptions include on the left page:
- the Principle associated with the particular midpoint
- Psychological correspondences, desirable and not
- Biological correspondences or medical astrology based observations
- Sociological correspondences
- Probable manifestations desirable and not so much
and interpretation of the factors, when they are conjunct in the traditional sense with an orb up to 5 degrees.

On the right page specific descriptions are include in point form, of all factors that make contact with the midpoint in question, listed from Sun to MC.

For example, in your chart the MC is calculated to be in Sagittarius 25°39’.
That means that your mutable MC can further be described by taking into consideration ALL the midpoint descriptions between / to all the way to / and all other ones in between.

Please remember we use a 1 degree orb only. I imagine it makes sense, that the closest midpoints of / Ascendant is the most relevant one.

That describes - and here I am quoting verbatim for you:
A restless character changing her objectives in life and constantly searching for new stimuli and contacts. Excitement, making changes, cooperation in the technological and industrial sphere.

I imagine it goes without saying, that if you want to engage with this kind of in depth work, you can not do it without the ultimate reference book.

Hope this is of some use to you,
Janos

Rosincvist » Anni23 Twenty-Seven degrees of is Astrology in the sign of Astrology.
The end of the positive fixed signs is Musical.
Your is between the two.

Ways_of_Leavin' » 1janos Thank you for taking your time to explain, Janos. I´m still however a bit confused on how to use Cosmobiology and what it´s really based on... you mention the 8th harmonic, what does that really mean ?

A quick Goggle search gave me this: "Your 8th harmonic chart shows your 8th house vibration or personality — it can show themes and issues you have around your own 8th house and how you deal, accept or deny these themes, this also ties into the sign on the 8th house." But as it mention chart are we speaking about something different here ?

I don´t have any experience at all with midpoints; I have only looked up the (very short) interpretation of some of my own in Parker´s Astrology. When I generate my midpoint chart here, applying Cosmobiology I get this: https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/c…

I see that e.g. my MC is conjunct my / midpoint, as well as my / falling on the MC. Moon is square the /MC midpoint, as yet another example. Do you mean that, ideally, I should purchase this book, and in this book there are given interpretations for each of these aspects ?

The midpoint calculator shows both direct and indirect midpoints. Do you only use the direct ones? And the aspects to them should include square/conjunction/opposition only, with max. 1 d. orb?

Citing Wikipedia (for a lack of a better source):
"Cosmobiology continued Witte´s ultimate primary emphasis on the use of astrological midpoints along with the following 8th-harmonic aspects in the natal chart, which both Witte and Ebertin found to be the most potent in terms of personal influence: conjunction (0°), semi-square (45°), square (90°), sesquiquadrate (135°), and opposition (180°)."

I´m still confused about the concept of Cosmobiology vs. just doing regular midpoints... Is it just the concept of focusing on using midpoints + on the 8th harmonic aspects in the natal chart, or is there some sort of ´special´ way you calculate or read the midpoints

viv » 1janos Thanks so much Janos.🍀

Anni23 » Rosincvist Sorry I´m not sure if I follow some of that..

Rug-rats. Are you saying that I may have lots of children?

Hippie people have close neptune/uranus aspects do they haha
So I must be a hippie
Didn´t the conjunction between neptune and uranus last ten years though, and not everyone born in this time are hippies

Does this mean it is less significant within my chart? As everyone had these planets conjunct at this time

What do you mean about saturn between astrology and music?.. Aquarius and Pisces?..
Or the 5th and the 6th

So are you saying that saturn in my chart effects the 6th house? Which actually is ruled by the 4th house, so I am thinking that the 3 houses of 4, 5 and 6 are working together somehow..

1janos » viv Hey Viv,

I think the ownership of the ultimate reference book is essential. Here is one.

https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/…

The amount of information can become overwhelming. Strictly use 1 degree orbs only. Once you have the book I can tell you more, if you want.

Rosincvist » Anni23 In terms of fifth-house; True for it would follow the affirmation; "I would like twenty rug-rats scrabbling about my flat!"
The Concrete term for the intense brilliant mental power of erschel closely combined with the Psychical is "nightmare"
Some Q people born when I was born are awesome talents!
The Hippies are divided between those who have & those who have , soon it shall be versus
Chas E. O. Carter would point out that you have between Astrology and Music, which is a good zone of aptitude!

Anni23 » Rosincvist What interpretation would you have of my saturn at 28.55 degrees Aquarius almost at the end of the 5th house? (At thr very end uaing whole signs) I´ve never really related much to what I have read about it being in the 5th.

Does it have some influence on the 6th house?
Also my 5th is in mutual reception with my 4th house which contains Uranus, and neptune however.

viv » 1janos Thanks for your response Janos and thank you and Petr for creating this resource. I did see these pages but wondered if there are any interpretive prompts. Should I buy the Egbertin book or a later one? Re your own practice do you advertise or just have a listing somewhere?

And yes, as an Art Therapist no one really knew what I was doing alongside my clients ... just so long as I made some notes and they improved and mostly loved it it was all OK and for 30 years! Turning my thoughts to psycho ed exploratory courses and mini workshops now with the possibility a few people will want to do one on one personal work to go deeper or supervision. Che sera .
The pandemic has slowed all that down 👩🏽‍🎤🧑‍🎤 🧙‍♂️Groups have become the new weird ! Tho Ive joined Playback so maybe some dream theatre to come. Best Viv

1janos » viv Hi Viv,
You certainly have been busy, and your level of education and commitment to the cause is commendable. Hats off to you, and I mean this sincerely.

I´ve also trained in Art and Movement therapy, the Gestalt Approach, as a foundation, Psychosynthesis, Provocative Therapy, Holotropic Breathwork and the therapeutic use of flower essences. I was a founding member of the Australian TransPersonal Association and the Australian Spiritual Emergence Network. I´ll stop there, as this isn´t a job interview.

I´ll exaggerate a little now, to make a point.

In my opinion, it is not possible to make a living doing real therapy in a PC riddled environment. However useful it may have been, there is no way of poking, choking, or doing ´river therapy´ with people nowadays. We must not upset people or stress them out. They must not experience unpleasant feelings, that may lead to the development of emotional tensions and unpleasant thoughts.

In the past, the motto: ´Whatever works will do!´ guided me (us?). Today therapy is done according to guidelines and established policies. Laughable BS!

In the past, I also preferred to do a mixture of group and individual based work. My partner and I established and ran The Centre for Personal Growth in Port Macquarie 1993-2004, but then pulled the plug, due to lack of serious interest.

Nowadays I see the occasional individual person and even that is dwindling.


The calculated Angles are the same with Koch and Placidus house systems.
Though I found the Koch house system most relevant and accurate, Cosmobiology plays a much greater role in my work nowadays.

1janos » viv Hi Viv,

It is a bit tricky to talk about a synopsis, because there isn´t really one. The introduction, that was written in the most recently updated and published edition originates from 1972. It is 35 pages long. At the end of the book there is another 29 pages long Post Script - if I can call it that -, further elaborating on the topic. This includes a significant amount of instructive information about the maths involved in calculating the data.

Nowadays, that is pretty irrelevant, because Petr has kindly modified and further developed his software, as a response to a request of mine, about 4 years ago. His contribution remains most valuable, and I wish to acknowledge it with a great deal of gratitude for his efforts.

I took the liberty and generated the kind of Cosmobiological chart I use to demonstrate the amount of data becoming available. This is based on the 8th harmonic, so the sorting involves all identifiable midpoints sorted into the 3 groups of Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable positions. It can´t be used without the actual reference book, which includes information from to only. , and other asteroids are not included. However the available data is pretty exhaustive and provides in depth and accurate details never encountered before in classic interpretations. Once you get the hang of it all, it is not difficult to extrapolate further details related to midpoints involving and .

https://horoscopes.astro-seek.com/c…

Hope you find this useful.
Janos

viv » 1janos Hi Janos
This came through just as I was writing. I did have a reading with a cosmo biologist who at that time was NSW Northern Rivers so I was award of midpoints but haven’t used them systematically. Yes I’d love more info Is a synopsis of the research findings included in the book?

viv » 1janos Hi Janos
Thanks for your reply. I’m a psychotherapist too which is why I asked you. Trained in Art Therapy, added advanced Gestalt, then 1300 hrs and 10 exams in Mindells Process Oriented Psychology which is a post Jungian modality , then Counselling Masters and then Sandplay, Dreamwork, Experiential Astrology and Archetypal Astrology plus everybody’s workshops and courses along the way for decades. I supervise graduating Art Therapy students at Murdoch Uni here near Fremantle atm.

I see you are on NSW south coast. My experience has been that the days of people investing in 2-5 years individual psychotherapy or governments subsidising this are over, no matter what trauma they’ve lived through! It takes me 2-3 hours to get a good overview of a chart about the same time as a full bio psycho social assx in fact! But of course exploring what that means in terms of the person’s lived experience is something else. I agree that how the person is living their potentialities is essential to know , and that comes out of the co working, trust in the interpersonal field between you.

I want to discuss initial info with clients and then support them to explore archetypes in experiential groups with art, movement, dramatic enactment, body symptom work etc. In the couple of decades I worked in Mental Health I found a mix of group work with individual initial sessions and in depth reviews worked well.Right now I am shaping my way forward in private practise as to who wants what, while Saturn transits my sun 😂

I have always studied astrology but haven’t added it to my offerings until now. Working on a website , seeing the people who find me, and thinking about whether to run an experiential intro to astrology course atm

I was asking in case you had specific experiences of one house system being more accurate than another in any way except by “feel” . And if “ feel” did you keep records? Is the IC more accurate for example with Koch ? What about division between 6th and 7th aka Dsc? I’ve always used Placidus, recently added Whole signs and am trying out their ideas on sect.

Any ideas most welcome. Message if you have time. Best Viv

1janos » Ways_of_Leavin' I´d like to recommend something to you, namely the study of Cosmobiology.

This is a method of gaining deep and accurate insights, that is far more precise and accurate, than classic astrology and does away with highly arbitrary house systems.

The method is based on Mid-point based work, and was the summarisation by Dr Reinhold Ebertin on a decades long, very large number research project conducted by Astrologers, Doctors, Psychologists and Statisticians in Germany and Switzerland between 1920-1970.

The most important reference book is awkwardly called: The Combination of Stellar Influences or often referred to as COSI.

Please let me know, if you want more information.

1janos » viv Well, all I can say, that my fundamental training and occupation is as a psychotherapist. Trained in Humanistic and Transpersonal psychotherapy 1982-´87.

While working with people I became very curious and suspected, that progress could be facilitated, if I had greater insight into what was going on in the depth of people´s consciousness. Most people have little in depth grasp of what is actually going on. That fact is often the motivation to enter therapy.

Though I find astrology to be a wonderful tool, most people seem to forget the fact, that it can only be an approximate map. Must not mix up the map - the astrological chart -, with the territory - the individual, whose chart it is.

The undeniable fact is, that statistically speaking 4-5 babies are born every second on the planet 24 hours a day, every day. The differences among them - to some extent -, will depend of course, where they were born. However, what an individual will realise of their potential, as described in the Astrological chart, is pretty hard to predict.

I imagine you´d agree with me, that astrological symbols and their complex interrelationship can be used to describe the issues, challenges and even potential solutions for addressing people´s ´life battles´.

To accomplish that, I need to invest a significant amount of time and effort to understand their chart. I also need to spend a significant amount of time in intimate contact with a person to understand, where they are in their process of self discovery

So, I chose the Koch house system after spending considerable time with people asking for assistance. The observation was, that I gained the most accurate insight into their life and ´issues´ using the Koch system. This experiential proof was enough for me.

The thorough understanding of an astrological chart and therefore a person´s life is a very arduous undertaking. That effort can yield remarkably accurate and descriptive results, but for me - for example -, it takes about 100 hours of concentrated work.

Ways_of_Leavin' » viv My mistake. I will look up Dionysus, sounds interesting

Ways_of_Leavin' » Psyle Sorry for my very late reply... I have been testing different house systems on my own and others charts, and as well have been paying more attention to transits as compared to what I usually do. I was quite busy up until lately so I forgot about it a bit some time. Around the time I wrote this post tPluto was conjunct my Mercury-Saturn-NN near the 12th H cusp, and tSaturn cojunct my nSun in the 12th. Both planets have been retrograde for some time. I wanted to see when either of these two were 6 degrees away from 11th and 12th H cusp... seems Pluto was around 6 d. away from 11th H cusp in January or so this year. Unfortunately I did not pay too much attention and can´t really remember too well... or is this phenomenon only applicable to Saturn anyway ? I imagined something similar with Pluto. Well as he wrote himself the 6 d. "rule" can be applied to any planet. I would "report" here when I know more about Saturn but that would still be some time later as he is still in the middle of my 12th H.

"Quite packed and intense" - yup that also resonated. Pluto indeed does leave anything the same; sometimes it´s hard but also very needed.

Thank you so much for sharing what Stephen Arroyo wrote. I do not e.g. believe in cusps when it comes to the signs, as e.g. "being born on the Pisces-Aries" cusp, but as you do I believe it´s somehow different in regards to the houses. I know for reports on Astro.com such as the Personal portrait they interpret planets being close to a house cusp as being in the next; I´m not completely sure what orb they use but having played a bit around with my TOB I figure it could be about 2 degrees. I have not read much Arroyo but I do in fact own one of his books, "Pluto: The Evolutionary Journey of the Soul". I never read through all the chapters but enough that I respected him a lot. Intuitively, 6 degrees seemed too large but if he says so, well, I keep it in mind.

I would like to give my experience or view but it seems I´m not as knowledgeable or experienced with astrology as you are (I cannot comment on Rahu/Ketu, or SN/NN, and your Sun). But your examples are very clear and do make sense. Your chart ruler Mercury being conjunct Pluto (in Scorpio) must make you quite an intense Gemini riser with great depth to your mind. I see your Mercury is conjunct your POF in the 6th too... 10th H ruler in 8th... Does your work somehow involve investigation and communication ? I´m not too sure what to make of this. Interesting that we are both in the medical field. I noticed that you have a Draconic Sun in Pisces btw - I´m not sure if it can explain introversion or being solitary but possibly it could also have something to do with that (as far as I have understood our Draconic charts show our soul´s purpose, or how I see it, how we are deep, deep inside, adding some other layer).

viv » Ways_of_Leavin' Sorry it took so long! Yes it takes a while to get to know asteroid archetypes. Lots of living with mythology to find out what resonates ..Dionysus on the Sun sounds quite a story!

Ways_of_Leavin' » viv Awesome, thanks! Apparently asteroid Requiem is right on my MC... Dionysus is on the same degree as my Sun... Asteroid Minerva, and possibly also Orpheus and Child conjunct Asc lol, I have no idea what it means tbh

Ways_of_Leavin' » 1janos Psychotherapist and astrologer, interesting combination!

I looked up my chart using the Koch house system. As you say, my Mercury-Saturn-NN moves to the end of my 11th house. Saturn is basically directly on the house cusp..! Saturn is indeed very prominent in my life. Astro.com actually gave me Saturn as my dominant planet, if I´m not mistaken (of course, there are different methods or equations of determining that; I cannot comment on their validity). Mercury-NN are within 2-3 degrees of the 12th house cusp.

Well I can say I identify much more with all these planets being in the 12th house vs. in the 11th. I can´t exclude an 11th house influence though. It´s hard to say... If I apply the theory I discussed here originally, using now Koch instead of Placidus Saturn (and also Mercury-NN if you allow around a 2 degree orb) and not Pluto will be conjunct a house cusp. As mentioned though, I have anyways much Saturn/Capricorn influence, and also Pluto in Scorpio in the 8th house.

I see it´s difficult to determine if a planet conjunct a house cusp gives a dual house influence and/or sort of "amplifies" the planet/house. I need to look up much more charts to have any idea at all.

And yes, I´m aware that I have the BML conjunct my MC from the 9th. Also, as I pointed out in my reply to Viv, I have asteroids Dejanira and Lilith (tightly) conjunct my Asc.

Well... My goal so to say was not only to make more sense of my own chart but to be able to test this theory and see if it applies to other people (too), and what others have to say about it; if you agree or disagree. Anyway thank you for your input, I do appreciate it. I will be looking up other chart as well using Koch, and see which system resonates more (I´ve recently been challenged by an astrologer to use to whole sign system instead so as you can see it takes time).

viv » 1janos Do you have time to elaborate about why you chose Koch to explore intra personal aspects in your therapeutic work Janos.? I sometimes work. With an astrologer who uses Koch and significantly my Mars Venus Pisces which are at the end of the fourth in Placidus are in the fifth in Koch. Thank you
.

viv » Ways_of_Leavin' Sorry serennu.com. two ms also centaur asteroid ephemeris search will get you there