September 9, 2020 at 14:49 (UT/GMT)
(Pisces) bluerosepetals
Men who hate women and women who hate men. What do you think causes this, aside from bad experience with a particular sex/gender and difficult family patterns? Keep in mind that I´m not talking about people who simply hold certain stereotypes about men/women or who hold certain beliefs about men/women because of cultural reasons, I am talking about people who really, really HATE the other gender and/or have a history of abuse towards them (not just towards one person, but generally towards members of a certain sex/gender). So, try to think about people you know who exhibit those traits and post their charts ANONYMOUSLY (please don´t write any data that can be connected to a certain person, you never know who will read that - you can also send me their chart in PMs!) in Whole Signs if possible. I´m looking for some patterns in natal charts that can be found in men/women who hate the opposite sex/gender.

Also, feel free to share your thoughts or theories on the subject. Anything topic-related is welcome here. :1:

EDIT: Yes, if you post a chart just please make sure you write the gender of the person because I will look at those two groups separately.

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September 9, 2020 at 15:19
(Pisces) fishscales
I think this happens sometimes because people are dissatisfied with their OWN gender...or feel as if they are not a good example of their gender.

They sense that they may be rejected by the opposite sex because of this, so they attack, preemptively, by "hating" the opposite sex...Or basically, rejecting them before they can be rejected themselves.

I am definitely not saying this is always the case, but I´ve seen a few situations in which I would bet money that it was the case...

No chart examples to share though, sorry.
September 9, 2020 at 15:24
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » fishscales
I´ve seen this a lot while reading incel forums (yeah I´m a total voyeur) and I think you are spot on about this, especially the "reject before being rejected" thing. They also seem to dislike men who are more successful in love so I think there is also an element of envy and feeling inferior.
September 9, 2020 at 15:40
(Aries) hh

someone i know personally, verbally and even physically abusive to women, even at a young age, but mostly when drinking.
i have my ideas but interested in what you see.
September 9, 2020 at 15:45
(Pisces) fishscales » bluerosepetals
I think it could just as easily happen that people who are uncomfortable with their own gender may "hate" those of their own gender, because they can´t identify with them... They may relate better to those of the opposite gender.

There could definitely be an element of jealousy present in the above situation too. The person could get jealous of how people of their gender express their gender easily, while they do not.

Either way, astrology-wise, I think alot of this has to do with a weak Mars and Sun for a man, and a weak Venus and moon for a woman.
September 9, 2020 at 15:56
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » hh
Thank you!

So, what immediately comes to mind is Venus conjunct Saturn and opposite Chiron, which is sitting on his IC. Conjunctions can be both good and bad, but I believe that any conjunction with Saturn (especially of a planet like Venus) will cause difficulties. This person may feel inferior when around women, which is explained by Chiron on the IC (wounds related to home, primary family, mother). Also, Venus is square Ascendant - he may not feel attractive to women. Venus on Rahu/NN will put an enormous focus on women and relationships (I´ve heard it can also cause addiction to love/sex), but with Saturn also sitting there... he won´t be successful in that which causes frustrations. Lilith in the 8th house can also be a sign of childhood sexual abuse, but not necessarily. Men who have been abused in this way may abuse others later on in life. Moon square Lilith can cause dislike and even hate towards women who are freedom-loving and independent. Pluto in the 7th house can cause the person to either be controlling and possessive in their partnerships or to attract such people into their life. Oddly enough his Mars is well-aspected, but with all those other issues... maybe this is why he is mostly violent when drunk. He doesn´t seem like a physically violent person while sober.

What do you see?
September 9, 2020 at 16:06
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » fishscales
Yes, it can also cause hatred towards their own gender. I´ve seen that too.

Hahaha, I actually have the opposite theory. I think that weak Moon or Venus in a man´s chart with an overly strong emphasis on Mars and Saturn (which are also badly aspected) can cause an inability to "connect" with the feminine. For women, I believe that a weak Mars with an abundance of Neptune can cause a perpetual victim complex where she sees all men as bad people who want to hurt her (although here it might be more about fear and less about hate).

Now I´m really curious about what we´re gonna see in charts.
September 9, 2020 at 16:20
(Aries) hh » bluerosepetals
wow, really good. you confirmed alot, but also added stuff i didnt see or didnt know. i was very fixated on the saturn-venus, i failed to see chiron, i was fixated on chiron on the south node, which i know can indicate possible abuse, but didnt even see the venus-chiron hiding on the nodal axis. so much more difficult for him than i thought.
yeah, venus-sat-rahu, wants love and lasting love but afraid of rejection, rejects before being rejected, like you guys mentioned earlier. lilith in 8th on sexual abuse, eye opening for me, that i need to look into, we just dont know though because he doesnt open up, but very possible. and moon square lilith i guess confirms it as well, actually he seems to hit every button for distrusting and even disliking women, haha.
pluto in 7th, ive worried about that one too.

the only thing ill add is his mars. in sidereal, in taurus, so its backwards dignity and in the nakshatra of kritika, in the 2nd house of speech, add it all, this person is very critical and harsh in their speech, very cutting. i consider myself decent in speech and debate, but i really think twice before arguing with this person. i always have more information, but he is very clever and cuts deep to the core of the conversation, like a knife, and makes it hard to win an agrument, very logical and precise but unpleasant to be around when they are in a mood.
also kritika is sharp instruments like knives and mars rules the same, this person is a barber.

thanks for the analysis, i learned alot of new things to support explaining this persons behavior.
September 9, 2020 at 16:47
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » hh
Thanks. :1:

About that Lilith, it may not necessarily be as extreme as sexual abuse, but Lilith is a very wild point in a chart, and doesn´t do good in the 8th house. It can cause major trust issues, difficulty with bonding, inability to achieve intimacy... *especially* when squared by Moon.

You made a good observation about his Krittika Mars in the 2nd. Clever and also very persistent in a fight - I can imagine! I have my Ascendant in Krittika and poor anybody who gets into a debate with me, but with Mars I believe this is even more pronounced. His profession as a barber also makes sense.
September 9, 2020 at 17:16
(Pisces) Asteroid #448 » hh
Hi hh, this is not so much anything in the chart that I can see which would predispose one towards mysogny. Its almost a doppelganger chart to my brother and he isn´t abusive,drunk or sober. Though he used to abuse the bottle lol. But, even then, aggravated, he would never lift a hand to females.

Chiron in cancer though might be due to an ill-fitting family or head of the family, which would be the mother, father, or both.
I have this and most of the placements in progressed too but im the happiest person when drunk, or sober, certainly not abusive. He probably got bumped on the head as a kid.
September 9, 2020 at 17:30
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » Asteroid #448
Not everybody who has these aspects will behave like that, otherwise everyone born around that time would be abusive. It´s all just probabilities. And we have yet to see more charts. I´m also not necessarily looking for abusive people, you can hate another gender and not be openly abusive towards them (some people are actually very shy and don´t even talk to the opposite gender).

Also, having the exact same aspects may not make a person misogynistic, they can manifest themselves in different ways. We´ll see when I get more charts anyway, this is just one.
September 9, 2020 at 17:34
(Aries) hh » Asteroid #448
yeah, he has chiron in cancer/4th, he perceives the family as wounded him or neglected him i think. he also wants to cut off from the family (ketu/south node there). he gravitates toward higher status patriarchal men that he looks up to and aspires to be like, north node 10th with saturn/venus.
he does have a drinking problem, mostly happy and fun when drunk but ive seen a few times where he blew a fuse when drunk and become violent and verbally abusive. hes gotten much better in self-control but still remains untrusting with animosity towards women.
September 9, 2020 at 17:38
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32
I usually get into with other women because of Saturn Moon, and Saturn opposition Venus. And usually on their part. Where I don´t have much hatred for men because of the Fire and Mars and Jupiter in Scorpio.

I´m usually the one in opposition of feminine who want to bash men, and sometime think this was more about standing up for men when with some of the women out there.

Although, I have friends in the LGBT community since I have Uranus in Libra in the 3rd and North Node Aquarius. And just part of the times in 2020.

Usually, in my experience women hate men in the U.S. anyway because they´ve been conditioned since the Uranus in Cancer Generation to be independent women as a single mothers, move into the work force, be independent, and the Sexual Entertainment Industry became more prominent where divorce, separation, survival issues with raising children.

Silent Movies started with the Gemini Pluto Generation on film and the more it progressed in the 1970´s into pornography, magazines, films etc. Where in Saturn in Scorpio it was kind of exploding on the Internet for a bit with literature, came, virtual reality, and kind of where every relationship is affected now with the internet. Which social media sites started kicking it out the last few years.

It imposes a lot of sabotage in relationships where survival is concerned on the Taurus/Scorpio axis.

And most people don´t see it that way. They just see "Oh, I"m just enjoying the pleasure." What is the big deal. Well usually a sex worker, stripper, or whatever is draining the pocket book when it becomes an addiction.

And of course, there are some jerks who will pay for their addiction while telling the mother of a child, I can´t pay child support, buy diapers, formula, yet, support the lifestyle of their favorite feminine they´re focused on in sexual entertainment.

So this can create a lot of hostility with single mothers who have a child to feed, clothe, shelter, and the masculine is off fulfilling their sexual pleasures.

While these type of men will work hard, but be focused on themselves instead of focused on the family.

And in turn they hate the woman because she takes him to court and goes after him for child support. And he blames her for his wages being garnished etc.

It comes down to "Responsibility" and "Priorities".

This isn´t saying all men or women get themselves in this situation, but there are a huge amount of them since the 70´s who have had the experience. And many men find themselves in the same situation as well.

It doesn´t mean just sex, but any addiction to alcoholism, gambling, foreign substances, and too many other addictions people find themselves in to escape reality. This is huge since the Baby Boomer Generation, Generation X since the Traditionalists didn´t have as many options of Entertainment, and they might have gambled, but it wasn´t as prominent or magnified. You´re talking about gambling on the street and in a few places like in New York during their generation, versus Casino´s everywhere, online and offline gaming in 2020, and the availability of street drugs, and other forms of self-medicating is far more expansive since transportation expanded.

Most men and women fight over bad habits and addictions of escapism and entertainment. And there´s been a lot of talk over the decades it´s the men´s fault, or the women´s fault depending on the couple and their story. And it ends up in informational products through the decade.

Entrepreneurs also condition society through these niches, categories, and it was way before the Internet. It was on our book shelves and magazine racks. There wasn´t so much "Self-Help" I don´t think either. When you look at old magazines they had some tips, but not as expansive as today or distribution since the 1970´s. There´s been so many seminars, workshops, new product over the last 31 years just in my experience as a women. And some of those products were wrote by Baby Boomers who were going through the experience themselves.

This might go into the Political Agenda´s of the times and what each generation does with information.

As you see in Uranus in Taurus we´re ending a cycle of what we´ve taught the Generations since WWII about being a woman or man.
September 9, 2020 at 17:41
(Aries) hh
in terms of famous people with self-proclaimed hatred towards women, this serial killer comes to mind, Ed Kemper.

September 9, 2020 at 17:50
(Pisces) Asteroid #448 » bluerosepetals
Yep, i agree with you. Seeing the chart did get me a bit shocked because i believe (nowadays) that the chart and aspects predisposes so this does affirm, at least for me, that its character for some people, how they work with the aspects.

I actually do have an example. I know someone but i´ll keep the identity secret, really a very strange person who is very quiet, almost monotone, though i´ve detected in his behaviour a disapproval towards women, who speak their mind and dont stay in line.I dont know if mysogny but even as i´ve had doubts i tried to give the benefit of the doubt verbally but every single person whom i´ve mentioned him to says the same.. Him?.. Or he´s robotic, the man doesn´t even smile, he doesn´t have a personality. I´ve said that´s not true, I think its shyness but in all our interactions i sometimes wonder if he in fact is not so much shy but a mysognist/narciscist who cant bear anyone let alone me, barely a friend, to get close enough to someone for them to see that underneath all that calm he really is discontent, seething, and hates others but especially women if they´re their outgoing natural warm emotional human sides...
Sad too. Because i saw a lot of potential in him. Lol :-)
September 9, 2020 at 17:54
(Virgo) RohiniMoon » hh
Oh boy. The man who killed his mother and then cut out her vocal chords and put them in the garbage disposal.

A fine point. He hated woman due to his mothers poor treatment of him. In males - how your mother raised you/gave you (or not) nourishment certainly came make or break your views on the opposite gender in the long haul.
September 9, 2020 at 17:58
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » goldenlion32
Really, the type of men who refuse to pay for alimony for the child they helped create strikes a special nerve in me. I can´t even blame the woman for hating him in that case. Even if he can´t stand his ex, he should think about the child. His child. I believe that a lot of female rage towards men comes from centuries and decades of being stomped all over, and we still see double standards for men and women (good thing you mention sexuality and how much more freedom men seem to be able to get away with compared to women). Of course, hating any group is unacceptable because inevitably it leads to more conflicts and unfairness towards members of that group who are perfectly decent.
September 9, 2020 at 18:01
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » Asteroid #448
I would really like to see this person´s chart... sounds like Saturnian issues to me.
September 9, 2020 at 18:03
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » hh
Venus conjunct Chiron on the IC... Venus also very loosely square Saturn and Ascendant. See similar patterns? I also received one chart in DMs with a Venus square Saturn. I also personally know a guy with this aspect who hates women with a passion. We may be onto something here...

*Of course, not everybody with that aspect will be like this!*
September 9, 2020 at 18:13
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32 » bluerosepetals
What hit a nerve in me is when I hear those sex workers tell me, mother´s should become workers like them to support their children. :61: I don´t think every mother wants to sell their body to gain money and materialism.
September 9, 2020 at 18:28
(Pisces) Asteroid #448 » Asteroid #448
Forgot to mention, in person i can chat about anything under the sun but i felt a huge block in speaking, probably his saturn sq my moon/his pluto sq my mercury or saturn in 3rd house. It did add to the theory because he was rather satisfied at this surprising turnout, so much so that he then deliberately started hindering any "progress" such as attempting to draw him into conversation, he would ignore outright. So, what would you call that?
Have you ever heard of the Munchausen syndrome.. This is where the cause of the syndrome is caused, exaggerated, or outright faked by the caretaker, because it gives them a sense of power. In a way it is "curing" what is ill. But the person doesnt want you to really get better.. Why where would their use, their power be then?
So strike you down again they will.
Most people who deem there must be sort of a NEED for you to love them do this, and wont stop trying to prove you in fact need them rather than just love, or want them.
September 9, 2020 at 18:34
(Pisces) Asteroid #448 » bluerosepetals
So in essence mysogny could be a bunch of all these syndromes, saturn can put a huuuge damper yes. in a very uncomfortable place currently.. In my personal relationships. Cant say i dont see all of them as overly serious uncle types or with crazy uranian energy :61:
September 9, 2020 at 18:39
(Aries) hh » RohiniMoon
yeah, and his mother would separate him from his sisters because she thought he would violate them. talk about another laying prophecies for you.
September 9, 2020 at 18:50
(Pisces) Asteroid #448 » hh
Wow, this man sounds like a monster.
September 9, 2020 at 18:54
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » Asteroid #448
How is his Saturn aspecting his planets? It seems like he likes to feel in control and doesn´t let people get near to him, possibly women in particular. So it suits him that you feel nervous around him.
September 9, 2020 at 18:55
(Pisces) bluerosepetals » hh
I am actually surprised by how "mild" his chart looks.
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