Pluto in Aquarius

January 14, 2023 at 16:41 (UT/GMT)
iris70
Pluto in Aquarius
Hi all, :)
Below is the Pluto ingress chart that will take place on March 23rd this year.
I thought about starting a discussion about what to events this is likely to trigger and how it is likely to affect you personally.

I do not consider myself a Mundane astrologer, but I think that a thread on the topic should exist in the forum.
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February 28, 2023 at 21:19
iris70 » cubic
Cubic,
I do not understand how you put it. Are you implying that all astrologers predict a boost in technology/science with the coming :160: :181:, because there is some kind of scheme that makes all Astrologers around the world predict the same thing, as to emphasize the importance of technology, using brainwashing techniques to disconnect people from some senses and lead people to meaninglessness, as you say? :22:

I have explained why I said what I did, so if you really claim this, I wonder if I should be insulted, or if there is something very wrong here...

:85:
February 28, 2023 at 19:37
(Leo) spung » Lagu
I´m not sure what you are implying here, that´s not what I wrote. I referred to images and symbols.
February 28, 2023 at 19:32
(Leo) spung » iris70
I don´t want to imagine what it might mean, it just got me on reflecting how easy it becomes to change a definition of life or a human being and how scary it is. Since I´m on kind of friendly terms with both Aquarian and Plutonic energies, it was difficult to imagine their darkest shadow potential.

On the opposite side of that I do see the potential for the new understanding of what unconditional love is and what being human means, so I tend to see everything through those glasses.

Thank you Iris for your concern, that´s a good idea indeed, with the check up :74:
February 28, 2023 at 17:41
(Leo) cubic » iris70
"Below I am posting the chart of the World wide web. Needless to stress the power of :160: in :178:. What started then was *destined* to be awfully powerful so as to control/manipulate to obtain the goals of those in power, whose identities were/are/will be kept secret. I wish to predict something positive about it, but deep down, I am afraid I agree with you!"

I disagree. It wasn´t destined.

It´s just that anything ever created under the sun becomes corrupted and used for power gains and games ultimately.

Lot of posters in this thread, and not only - in general anywhere seem to be under the impression that somehow at some point we´ve deviated from the "smurf village" ideal - some kind of "good state" of society where people in power didn´t use any means possible to retain their positions, and gobble up even more power over the population.

We humans are predators, and other humans are more often the prey than wild animals nowadays, and the predatory class actively maintains narratives to deny this, because then it´s easier for them to have you.

Hell, it´s even in our cosmology. We have deception with Neptune, we have manipulation and sneakiness with Pluto - the deep power that is in the shadows. So yeah, it´s ordained by GOD that we´re manipulative, predatory and deceptive. It´s everywhere all the time. It´s just difficult or it makes one lose advantage over others to talk about it too openly.

Lol...
February 28, 2023 at 17:32
(Leo) cubic » JesseZX
Yes, it seems action starts from after the 10th degree. Before then it´s new perceptions.

Spontaneous grassroots - not even sure how often that ever takes place. Usually it´s politicians that are out of power, or their kids, acting through proxies, making it look spontaneous.

It´s ok, "the people" don´t really have generational knowledge how to actually rule, so it´s almost never that anyone out of the political class gets to rule coming out of grassroots movements.

Napoleon actually implemented the principles of the revolution. He also didn´t care about it - for him it was means to an end. He was effectively having all the power when he was pushing the changes, a king of France.

For drastic changes like these we need drastic and pervasive misery, that we can barely imagine where we are now.

So no, we don´t have (yet) the grounds for rehvolution.

If Pluto manages to initially smash over enough of society´s delivery infrastructures, while the Dems somehow magically get re-elected and continue ripping the whole world off and making insane decisions plunging us deeper into the miser, then maybe. But damn the USA is so rich, it´s difficult, there is a lot of dough to steal.


I think the revolution is another forever-expectancy the Americans seem to have.

I guess some say you´ve got a revolutionary spirit - fair enough. But I also see the trope as means for emotional management of the population - to re-channel the frustrations, you´ve to hope that one day, the glorious revolutions will come and the bad guys will be taken down, and society will run on truth and honesty from then on.
February 28, 2023 at 17:10
(Leo) cubic » JesseZX
"i´ve read from many astrologers talking about various forms of advancement and progress coming up for t:160: :181:. i see the :181: in those predictions but i don´t really see the :160:.
in my opinion society is too bloated with technology, and too bloated with "progress" which has become merely a political (:181:) term.
i feel that people forget we´re talking about :160: with this transit."

I think this is even more visible from Europe, not to mention non-western cultures.

All USA astrologers talk about is damn technology and progress.

Like we´re already too deep into it, it´s been technology, technology, technology progress, progress, progress since I´ve been born at the very least. Same damn chants.

At this point to me it´s obvious that astrologers tap into popular cultural tropes and sentiments for views. They don´t give a fuck, or are silly commoners-bots. Or maybe they cannot see anything else.

What does it mean? That Western culture itself is uhh Aquarian/Mercurian, and quite a lot of its mores/sentiments have been based on the last time Pluto was in Aqua.

Or it´s just this massive push ever since Newton to keep the technology focus in Western societies going.

Or this future technological ExPloSioN is this forever dangling carrot that is supposed to "fix" secret inner nihilistic attitudes due to West´s de-spiritualization/technological-materialistic focus, leading to disconnect from some senses, leading to meaninglessness etc.

Don´t get me wrong. It is powerful, and it maintains West´s position and advantage. Psychological quality of life is another matter. But its not so and so bad, compared to alternatives I suppose.
February 28, 2023 at 16:45
(Scorpio) Graham » Lagu


"A recent report from the CDA´s Scientific Institute suggests that allowing the creation of research embryos to avoid human suffering may become conceivable for this party, but it is doubtful whether the stricter ChristenUnie will also follow this path." ... https://www.progress.org.uk/dutch-e…
February 28, 2023 at 07:35
(Virgo) Lagu » spung
Does Pluto in Aquarius affect what happens in the Netherlands in any way? :4:
Are these your fantasies? Or are you just trolling....? :5:
February 28, 2023 at 07:28
iris70 » spung
Jesus, Spung! :22:
What does it mean "for purposes other than a creation of pregnancy" That sounds horrific!! You mean in order to create some fetus cells that can be used to replace/regenerate organs that are damaged? If it is on some cells stage...OK, maybe...
That transit seems rough, dear! I would take a good test on my health, if I were you. Maybe blood tests and a visit to a Cardiologist to check my blood vessels. I do not wish to upset you, maybe nothing happens which is my wish...just check!
February 27, 2023 at 22:47
(Leo) spung
Hi Iris!
For a while I couldn´t put an image behind the ´Pluto in Aquarius´ energy. But today I heard of Dutch government wanting to make changes on the Embryo Act like "lifting the ban on the creation of embryos for purposes other than a creation of pregnancy". That one did it for me...

Personally, Pluto will be opposite my n Moon at 0´29 Leo. I take it as another step on my journey of healing my natal Moon/Pluto square.
February 26, 2023 at 07:22
iris70 » Anthony19
:15: :1:
February 26, 2023 at 01:41
(Pisces) Anthony19 » JesseZX
Hello Jesse,

The 2020 Saturn/Jupiter conjunctions was at 0 degree 20´ Aquarius. These two will conjunct in Air signs for the next 180 years. So in 2024 Pluto will validate the 2020 conjunction. (In 2023 Pluto doesn´t get to that point before it retrograde back to Capricorn)

As the air triplicities are the Trinity of Relationships, Pluto will definitely wipe out some, rebuild some and transform some......like it or not...

The Jupiter/Saturn cycle is also a social and economic related Cycle. Therefore be prepared that Pluto will "change a thing or two" in this regards.

Pluto is still in his "sextile phrase" with Neptune, with Saturn trying hard to put down "roots in Pisces´, we should expect a lot of social and economical relationship "changes".

Whether this is good or bad will depend on where you are in the society....indeed in the world....
February 26, 2023 at 00:37
(Scorpio) JesseZX » iris70
yes, i am interested in any book recommendations you have, please.

as you said about :157: :156: :191: at 0 :181: being growth but on solid ground, the fact that it´s on solid ground means it will be more resilient to the tests of :160:. i think :160: will be able to expose those things that could be considered due for death, but because of the solid nature of what has been established by the great conjunction, and the solid nature of :181: in general (since it´s fixed), it might be difficult for :160: to destroy things so easily.
an example of this could be more corruption being exposed within "the establishment" but there will be no justice as a result.
i suppose a result of that might be like pressure building behind a dam, but i can´t make any predictions about that. pressure behind a dam is only potential - there´s many different things the energy can be diverted to.
February 22, 2023 at 19:16
(Virgo) GaySnails42 » iris70
I am sorry for sounding overly angry, I was mostly aiming for cynical and edgy.

I know it´s not all doom and gloom, a lot of stuff will change and it´s not going ot be all bad, I am just kinda tired of how Aquarius is often talked about as this brilliant utopian force when in most cases that is simply inaccurate.

Aquarius was/is ruled by Saturn for a reason, and I feel like that often get´s overlooked in favor of more hopefull narratives or narratives based around the idea of progress.

What I like about Pluto entering Aquarius is the same things I dislike about it, shaking things up sometimes can be a breath of fresh air, it can scatter all the stuff that held your life in place.

I am cautious with the optimism as an Aquarius rising lol, but that doesn´t make it a bad transit, the reality is that any and all Pluto transits are kinda heavy and messy in their own ways.
February 21, 2023 at 18:34
iris70 » GaySnails42
Hi Gaysnails!:) I love your nickname, very original like you are! :15:

Although you are pretty young, you appear to have a good grasp of Astrology symbolism. What is more, you are really aware of how bad the situation is and for all I know, this is not only in the US, the same goes to my country-Greece-too, the UK-according to what my friends there describe in their posts and what I watch on the news. Actually, more the less, the situation is similar in all countries, because after COVID-fingers crossed this time has come to an end-there has been the crisis in Ukraine, the energy and food shortages which intensified the financial insecurity world wide. Of course, there are always other factors concerning regional/less regional crisis, like environmental disasters eg the earthquake in Turkey, hurricanes etc. All this is a powerful, but very negative mix and people are realizing is how related all nations are with each other, how issues in a country affect the rest, no country is an island!

I agree 100% with what you have written! :15:
I particularly liked this:
===============
Capricorn is looking from the foundation up, Aquarius is looking from the outside in, yet both are very focused on limitations, rules and ideals.
================

Yes, this is the idea, there is no social unrest/revolution when people are happy. In times of revolution a huge change is needed and it comes with the overturning of the structures that society was build upon, because some change is essential!

===========
So what does this mean for the Pluto transit? Well Pluto like to magnify and warp stuff, it also is often related to power and wealth. Seems to me like an era of opportunism with little oversight, as old instutions fail different scams and systems will attempt to fill that need and vacuum, people will go off and try to abandon parts of society and culture that simply aren´t working for them in one way or another.
==============
That is right! :15: :30:

============
Those with power in society will continue to best maintain and expand the power they have, as they have always done, but in a landscape that is lot less unified or singular.
==========
It´s a common secret! :14: That has been happening ever since Human beings built the first social structures and the concept of ownership, being land, cattle, money etc was created. Unfortunately, ownership comes along with societies. Well, socialistic/communistic societies thought about distributing wealth, but still, even in Russia, there is extreme, outrageous wealth for some very few and the rest is poor. Recently there is a middle class that has been created to feel the gap between.

Thank you for the good wishes, we all need it! :160: is not like a walk in the park on a sunny day! However, there will be positive things-most Astrologers say so, I feel it is not wishful thinking-Maybe something good will eventually come, but, I feel, only after old structures are demolished, what was built on rotten foundations at least.

Thanks for your contribution and brilliant ideas! I hope to hear from you again, I share your anger and frustration, people find it hard to make ends meet, to cope in general, especially young people, I have 2 kids who are about your age who struggle, like all others, but I just wish to ask you to manage your angry vocabulary, because we are all angry, but we control ourselves, because this is a public forum.

:74:
February 21, 2023 at 17:34
iris70 » JesseZX
Hi Jess,:)
About :157: being a malefic. Well, do not stick on the word and it´s negative meaning. "Malefic" means that it does not produce comfort, instead it offers restrictions, hard work, discipline etc, but that is not necessarily very bad. Unless someone learns to work hard, be down to earth, learns self-discipline he won´t develop the backbone to work, achieve anything in life. Of course :157: does deprive us of things too. I cannot explain it further, perhaps I could suggest a book title to read, if you are interested.

As to the great conjunction, I had written this:
==================
Now about the great conjunction, :156: is indeed a benefic, is about optimism, expansion, wealth, expansion, but on the negatives, he inflates things. Since :157: is restriction, those 2 combined can produce growth, but on a solid :157:ground, which is realistic, not inflated. In :181:, an fixed air sign, it is about new ideas, that may bring social change, promoting humanitarian efforts and justice in the collective.
===============
The :157: :156: :191: at 0 :181: marks the beginning of an era, in which technological advancements, humanitarian efforts, social change, expansion of science and restructure are the major characteristics. This is the area- :181:, for whatever it stands-that humans will build upon.

Now t :160: will :191: the same degree. Maybe you are right, I think I agree with you, that at first we may-it´s a prediction, nobody can tell for sure-experience a lot of de-construction, things may get worse at first, there can be great social unrest, discomfort. This is necessary, because this is the nature of :160:: to regenerate. First :160: destroys and then rebuilds, what was not build upon solid foundations. So ultimately, we will experience in the next 20 year period what is promised, but first, all will be tested big time by :160:, who has a "keen eye" for finding faults. This is my view and what many astrologers feel too. Of course, I am not God to know exactly.

I think I agree with your ideas suggested in the rest of your post! I like it that although you are young, you can see things in depth. :151: :178:, you said, or :153: :178:? Or both?

:74:
February 21, 2023 at 10:13
(Virgo) GaySnails42
Ah yes, Pluto squatting on Saturns lawn 2: electric boogaloo.

Honestly I suspect that even tho there absolutely will be a general uprooting and upshake, going from earth to air, Pluto is and will continue to be focused on Saturns bullshit.

Aquarius is associated with exiles and anything or anyone who doesn`t fit in, those who exist in some form on the margins or completely outside of society, whilst Capricorn is more concerned with those foundational to society, the essential workers that everyone and everything in society relies on, simply to function and exist.

Some changes you can expect are already apparant under Capricorn, think of all the people uprooted by the housing market being run like a pyramid scheme, and the rise of digital nomads, that shit has Aquarius written all over.

Now that the foundations have been utterly fucked by Pluto, it will move on to whatever the fuck remains on the margins and those ouside of society.

As much as I hate talking about the french revolution and the american revolution, the thing that ultimately mattered about both of those is that after the foundations of monarchy were eroded, this relatively new class of land owners with their own businesses were what remained, and ultimately they were there ones to shape and decide what their societies would become going forward.

They became the new rule makers, and their values to this day are foundational to the way we look at the world, and society.

Many people have this friendly idea of Aquarius, but the reality is that Aquarius is concerned with very similar topics and themes to capricorn, just from a different point of view.

Capricorn is looking from the foundation up, Aquarius is looking from the outside in, yet both are very focused on limitations, rules and ideals.

Aquarius is what happens when you exist either without, or outside of a foundation, this also why I suspect it`s so heavily associated with revolution, bc a revolution is the breaking or changing of foundations.

Aquarius is a fixed air sign, So what does stable air look like? Its air that fills the vacuum bc nothing else will, it is rough and based on sheer nessesity, if you think of outlaws, pirates and cowboys, most people living these aquarian lives were doing it bc that`s what their options were, either bc they had no place in society or bc society itself was not present, as interesting and fun these periods and people often were we shouldn´t pretend it was all liberty, sunshine and roses.

So what does this mean for the Pluto transit? Well Pluto like to magnify and warp stuff, it also is often related to power and wealth. Seems to me like an era of opportunism with little oversight, as old instutions fail different scams and systems will attempt to fill that need and vacuum, people will go off and try to abandon parts of society and culture that simply aren´t working for them in one way or another.

Those with power in society will continue to best maintain and expand the power they have, as they have always done, but in a landscape that is lot less unified or singular.

Look at for example how social media has developed in the past 10 years, look how subcultures are diversifying as there starts to be less and less of a consistent or uniform consensus in culture and society overall. People are seperated, exiled, alienated and abandoned, that´s what the trend seems to be anyways.

Watch out for Tyrants, more so than even under Capricorn, since the promise of the good old days, or simply a parental figure that will take care of you will be both alluring and seemingly an easy answer to all the worlds problems, bc they will promise unity, a foundation, belonging and connection, and even a future.

Don´t fall for this crap we´ve seen enough of it in the world.
I wish all of you a good Pluto transit in these uncertain times.

Thanks for reading!
February 19, 2023 at 01:52
(Scorpio) JesseZX » iris70
i think i understand what you mean by :157: being malefic. i agree that it is always malefic, but i was using the words ´benefic´ and ´malefic´ in a relative way (which i know is not proper).
what i mean is, if :157: is malefic then that means it causes bad things to happen. it causes these bad things to happen by helping the bad things. if it helps bad things then that means it is beneficial to the bad things, so from the perspective of those bad things it is benefic (again, only in a relative sense).

i understand that this might only be an abuse of the principles of traditional astrology (specifically, the idea of malefic&benefic), or i could just be missing the point, but i still stand by the idea that the great conjunction was good for *certain things within the realm of :181:*, while t:160: :181: will have many effects that are bad for those same *certain things within the realm of :181:*

i don´t think :160: and :157: have the same goals, even if both of them are malefic. for example, t:157: :181: might have caused authoritarianism, whereas t:160: :181: might cause destruction of the institutions that allow for such authoritarianism. so an indirect effect of t:160: :181: is that it might negate the malefic effects of t:157: :181:, and if it negates malefic then it can be considered benefic (maybe not in the proper sense of the word but i think you get the idea, even if i´m wrong).
i think that governments and propagandists etc will lose credibility and authority. that seems like a safe bet, except i don´t like gambling.



i´ll add some more about the topic of climate change.
climate change is related to the entire atmosphere which involves the air element, and the climate is also viewed on a macro scale which means it is relatively static compared to daily whether cycles which are always shifting; so that means the global climate generally has a fixed quality. climate change is very humanitarian since it involves so many people being involved, and it´s a more abstract intellectual type of humanitarianism (which matches the air element). it also requires a degree of regulations (:157: rulership) in order to implement the various plans of action.
even if we´re only talking about something like plastic being dumped into the oceans, that doesn´t have the literal air qualities of the atmosphere but it does involve all the other qualities mentioned (regulation of groups of people, coming up with innovative solutions, etc).
there seems to be two commonly accepted solution to climate change: 1) authoritarian restrictions on our modern ways of life, or 2) we develop new technologies. both of these options are :181:
surely :160: will begin to play a role in this field but i´m not sure how. since :160: deals with power, death, rebirth, and transformation; i will briefly go through those options.
-power: maybe people using the climate change topic as a reason (or an excuse) to gain more power.
-death: maybe people talking about how we´re all going to die from climate change (doomsday preachers). possibly famines caused by new regulations (dutch farmers come to mind).
-rebirth: reemergence of pre-industrial ways of living, or something that comes after the ´death´ faculty of :160:
-transformation: new technologies sounds like a big one. overall transformation of how we view the entire topic (in the long term, any transformation of how we live will be derivative of the initial transformation of how we mentally understand the whole topic, i think).

there is also a prevalent notion in the field of climate change about how "we are all in this together"; that we should forget our differences and come together as one global humanity. it´s possible that :160: will break this notion apart. or maybe :160: will break apart all of our differences, thus uniting us all. or maybe a mix of these two.
i think it should be noted that :181: tends to view people in a theoretical sense, similar to how climate change data views humanity on a "per capita" basis.


===
>I think this is human nature-to corrupt
===
to an extent i agree with this, although i also believe different humans have variance in their natures. humans can also purify and refine.

===
>I feel that the coming :160: :193: :199: :192: :159: will bring technological advancement
===
i think so too, even if i don´t see where it will come from.
i have plenty of faith in the planets. it´s the modern civilization that i´m questioning. but maybe the orbit of the planets is like a well-designed clock and the gears cycle around at ideal intervals, providing useful transits right as they are needed. so in that case it would make sense that we get a technology transit right at the time when technology seems to be in such a degenerate state (or maybe i´m just pessimistic about modern technology).


by the way, congratulations on being a mother.
February 15, 2023 at 11:33
iris70 » JesseZX
Hi Jesse, again, :)
I like talking to you, because you possess a deep thought and bring up good ideas. Nothing about declining of intelligence! :4:

In general, I agree with what you say, but I have spotted a few things in which I do not, if you allow me!

==================
I say the great conjunction of 2020 was this: (benefic + benefic) x :181: = strengthening of :181:.
pluto is malefic and doesn´t have any special relation to :181:, so the upcoming t:160: :181: will be this: malefic x :181: = weakening of :181:.

for the first formula, the reason why i
call :156: a benefic is obvious, and the reason why i call :157: benefic is due to the fact that it rules :181:
==================
Well, according to traditional/Hellenistic Astrology, :157: is always a malefic. The difference is that in the signs :157: rules, or is dignified eg :177:, :157: is more powerful, behaves better and can promote his agenda more easily-not quite so in :171: :182: :174:, for example. :157: is authoritarian, is related to rules and restriction and we have seen plenty of it, while t :157: was in :180: and :181:, plus social distance.

Now about the great conjunction, :156: is indeed a benefic, is about optimism, expansion, wealth, expansion, but on the negatives, he inflates things. Since :157: is restriction, those 2 combined can produce growth, but on a solid :157:ground, which is realistic, not inflated. In :181:, an fixed air sign, it is about new ideas, that may bring social change, promoting humanitarian efforts and justice in the collective.

Undeniably, t :160: will be a huge test to those ideas, some may die, but only for something new to take the place of it, some "transformation" is indeed expected here-who knows what- The way you put it-correct me, if you did not mean it this way-is as if t :160: will "cancel" all the positive influence of the Great conjunction, but :160: may do so, :160: prunes things, but only to regenerate, because what existed before was not workable and needed improvements. I agree with you that all "pathology" related to :181: principals eg technology/science/social structures will come to the fore and many of which will collapse, because obviously there ARE improvements to be made, because there has been misuse and excessive corruption in all fields, including science and technology and as to social structures and institutions undeniably there is plenty of corruption. I think this is human nature-to corrupt...

I have watched the youtube, thanks for sending. :1: There are some arguments in it, but well, I don´t agree on everything, because I am an astrologer and I can see how it works. I can see that "the easy apples to catch" have gone and we need to put much more effort now to "catch" those on higher branches, but much more people are educated right now, actually, there has never been such vast numbers of educated people worldwide, it isn´t like in the old times that few had this privilege, so many brilliant minds were born and died without contributing to the rest of the society, as they were not backed up by their environment to make use of their potential and I feel-since it is Mundane, so we all make our own predictions-there is ALWAYS room for more innovation, more improvements, there is much more room for scientific breakthroughs and technological advancement. Actually there is no end to human creativity.
Maybe there are periods, as the video suggests, that technological advancements are at peak and lower ones, but there is always room for more.

Although corruption is undeniably in human nature, so is creativity and innovation. I am not 100% a pessimist. So I feel that the coming :160: :193: :199: :192: :159: will bring technological advancement, I cannot say as to what, maybe robotics/space travel/new technology/on medical research etc, but there will be, because I TRUST astrology, I know it works, much like we astrologers predicted massive death and fear/control with :160: :157: :191: :180: in 2020 long before it actually took place, for example. :3:

:160: may be an end (=death in a sense), but also rebirth/regeneration. When t :160: was in my 4th, to offer an example from my natal chart, I experienced my dad´s passing, but also the birth of my children...

:1:
February 15, 2023 at 02:23
(Scorpio) JesseZX » iris70
here are some formulas that i´m using:
i say the great conjunction of 2020 was this: (benefic + benefic) x :181: = strengthening of :181:.
pluto is malefic and doesn´t have any special relation to :181:, so the upcoming t:160: :181: will be this: malefic x :181: = weakening of :181:.

for the first formula, the reason why i call :156: a benefic is obvious, and the reason why i call :157: benefic is due to the fact that it rules :181:. maybe for all of us it´s malefic but for the sign of :181: itself, it´s benefic. in both of those formulas i´m using benefic/malefic only in the context of :181: itself. as in, not how the planets affect us but rather how they affect anything related to :181:.
specifically i´m referring the biggest and most ´ripe´ functions of :181:. e.g. covid lockdowns, propaganda, politics, "philanthropy", authoritarianism, worldviews, and technological bindings.
t:156::157: :181: seemed to promote those things. i don´t think :160: will have the same effect.

i don´t think :160: will just hop into the :181: machine and kick it into overdrive and amplify all the :181: stuff that´s been happening. maybe :156: and :157: did that, but i think :160: will do something more like breaking the various :181: machines.
to go back to the historical examples, this is what happened in the french revolution: the biggest societal structure was brought down even though it was very strong and stable. hatian revolution was a similar case: total overthrow of the dominant societal structure. the people on top, who were viewed as oppressors of the people on the bottom, were defeated. in the usa it wasn´t quite so drastic but there was still the ´rebith´ principle in effect, since the articles of confederation were scrapped and replaced with the modern constitution, and then we got our new president who voluntarily killed his presidency towards the end of t :160: :181:. the colonists arriving in australia could be seen as a reincarnation of english society into a new host.

i suppose there is the possibility that :160: could give power to the current popular :181: things, in which case we would see all the dystopian prediction come true, but i think :160: would only give that kind of power to newer things. the corrupt and senile parts of :181:, which is all the things i´ve previously mentioned, will surely be like the low hanging fruit for :160: to cull.
:160: is also good at spotting fakes so i don´t think it will fall for the ´typical tricks´ so easily.
the planets are all cyclical, and :181: has been the longest without getting a purging from :160:, so it´s understandable that most of our problems and tumors in the world are happening through :181:. now maybe :160: won´t simply wave his magic wand and make the bad stuff go away, but at least it will all be out in the open and everyone will see it, or perhaps we will have some refreshing change.


===
>currencies, banks, etc
===
i´ve read that pluto controls money. actually maybe it´s venus that controls money, but i think hades himself was ruler of gold and silver since they came from the ground. so that may be interesting.

===
>secret societies
===
that sounds about right. i think it would be brand new ones though. i think the talmudic groups, which includes freemasons and illuminati, will suffer more of the ´death´ faculty of pluto if anything. if a place like reddit can be considered a secret society then maybe that will suffer some type of death as well, like digg.com before it.
surely there will be new secret societies but i think they will have to be fresh ones, rather than just a rebranding of the old ones.

===
>If you check the WWW (World Wide Web) chart posted above, do notice that t :160: will soon :191: that n :157:, which is unaspected in 2nd. What is the situation? There is no control, no moral compass, no sense of responsibility/respect for regulations/laws with that :157: in 2nd unaspected. The only ambition- :157:- is how to make more and more money, to gain status and power
===
that definitely makes sense. but you know when things get reckless it puts them in a position to make mistakes. more blunders = more pieces taken.
before the french revolution the royalty did have some legitimate flaws and the french people did have some legitimate grievances (e.g. food shortages). normally the nobility would have been able to overcome such a situation without much difficulty, but pluto only needed small openings to slip in. :160: channeled pressure to the correct spots and then amplified the energy - in order to destroy the aristocracy. pluto is what created the environment for that to happen, otherwise it wouldn´t have been possible.
i´m not trying to be overly hopeful here, or to say that good things will just fall from the sky, but if there is such a transit for all of the lies and corruption of modern society to collapse as a ´house of cards´, then surely t:160: :181: is the one. i´m hesitant to make such an optimistic prediction but in this type of astrology we make predictions, so that is the one i make.

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>in 2025 from August :160: will be in :181:, :199: will have moved to :173: and :159: to :171:. This gives: :160: :193: :199: both :198: :159: and that speaks volumes of technological advancements. That pattern will remain for long. What is more, t :157: will join in 2026 in :171: :191: :159: to build structures :157: possibly on new :171:-at 0- ideals :191: :159: on dreams that can become reality.
===
that all sounds very nice. i just don´t see the technological advancement. i´m sure it will be something but i don´t see how it will be what people expect. i mean, i don´t think it will be some sort of spontaneous enlightenment, because i just don´t see where it would come from (but i´m open to the possibilities).
technology has become more infantile and easily-accessible to less intelligent people, but that doesn´t necessarily mean it´s gotten better. more software work is being outsourced to low iq countries, which leads to short-term profit but causes gradual flaws that build up and create a web of problems that eventually can´t really be fixed. america is apparently no longer capable of putting people on the moon, as another example. the "southwest airlines meltdown" is an example of something we may see more of.
here´s a video that adds some points to this: https://youtu.be/GfXkr1YheXk
another way of looking at :160: is to consider that it´s the last planet, or the end. so maybe technology will get to it´s end stage. like the idea behind "late stage capitalism" memes, except it will be ´late stage technology´, or maybe just ´late stage :181:´
another thing is that i´m not sure what people even want from technology. maybe the corporate/government types want to use it for more control but i don´t know what the common person would want, except for some kind of more efficient dopamine factory. i don´t know. there doesn´t seem to be much of a goal or a clear idea of what the underlying values are.

===
>I just wish to see something positive out of it
===
i think if you want something positive to happen in the world, you have to make it happen yourself.
in terms of negative things which may happen as a result of this transit, i think it will not be directed at us very much, but maybe we will get indirect negative effects. for example let´s say the waterbearer of the village is a bad guy. then :160: addresses the problem. that can be seen as a good thing, but now we don´t have anyone bringing us water so that´s another problem. maybe the replacement waterbearer will be even worse, i don´t know. but that´s the way i see it.
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February 13, 2023 at 18:14
iris70 » JesseZX
Jess, thank you for finding the time to post in this thread, because your ideas are SO interesting! :5:
I am not hyper-optimistic about t :160: :181:. In fact, apart from the positives as to technological advancements, as I have mentioned in a post in page 2, or 3
===================
:181:is not only ruled by rebellious and foturistic :199:. Traditionally, :157: rules :181:. During the years of :157: stay in :180: and now in :181: we have experienced much authoritarian :157: practices, employing technology :181: to control :157: people, for example in order to protect our health safety- eg lockdowns, masks, vaccination- This control may continue while :160: is in :181:.
-Technology is used to control/spy on our bank accounts, what payments we do, who to, in an effort to minimize tax evasion, although people who wish to do so find alternative routs.
-Digitigation of currencies, paying/buying by credit cards, crypto money :160: currencies are supposed to influence all transactions and we are already experiencing this.
-In some countries, digital ID cards are employed, my country included to prevent identity thefth. In all probability this trend will become more widely used.
-Another idea is about virtual reality :181: being used to connect people around the globe. Virtual reality is already used for entertainment purposes and I wonder what direction this will follow and how this will affect human relationships.
==============
I had added in another post about secret societies emerging, something like Illuminati. I think that technology will be a means to apply control/manipulation and a lot of facts will remain hidden, some powerful people will keep making HUGE money, the dark internet may become even darker, some people will use this technology to make money without paying their taxes, there will certainly be fake news circulating, conspiracy theories too and in general we may be even more confused as to what the truth is, what to believe, who to trust.
If you check the WWW (World Wide Web) chart posted above, do notice that t :160: will soon :191: that n :157:, which is unaspected in 2nd. What is the situation? There is no control, no moral compass, no sense of responsibility/respect for regulations/laws with that :157: in 2nd unaspected. The only ambition- :157:- is how to make more and more money, to gain status and power. I do not know to which extent t :160: :191: that n :157: in WWW will manage to transform and bring under control. There will be some clash, I feel, maybe some transformation, concerning regulations, but the powerful of this world stand behind all this, they do not wish to have transparency in the web, as this is a great tool to keep their identities hidden, to do their dirty jobs and increase in power. So, no, I do not feel that everything will be like a walk in he park on a sunny day.

However, in 2025 from August :160: will be in :181:, :199: will have moved to :173: and :159: to :171:. This gives: :160: :193: :199: both :198: :159: and that speaks volumes of technological advancements. That pattern will remain for long. What is more, t :157: will join in 2026 in :171: :191: :159: to build structures :157: possibly on new :171:-at 0- ideals :191: :159:/on dreams that can become reality.

I just wish to see something positive out of it. Of course there are massive dangers. The environmental issues may get even worse, but hopefully technology may offer solutions. Personally, I do not need flying cars! I would be happy to have a car run on "clean" energy, though. We may be manipulated towards several/unperceivable directions. I have read that the EU has agreed the use of cricket flour (from that insect) to meet the demands of the market for cheap flour. I do not know if this IS truth, but the thing is that we generally have no idea as to what we eat, what we hear, what to believe, or trust etc.

You are right about the :157: and :199: archetype. That is what I meant.

You say some interesting things about :159: :171: but our topic is on :160: :181: and do not wish to comment on that.

:1:
February 12, 2023 at 22:16
(Scorpio) JesseZX » iris70
===
>I feel that both act at the same time, though. There is some kind of clash with :181: as there is from one hand a need to maintain what is familiar/the status quo, often using authoritarian :157: tactics and on the other hand, there is an impulse for drastic action against everything Saturnian.
I feel you meant something like this in the quote above"
===

i didn´t do it on purpose but now that you mention it i think you´re right. i´ve had a similar thoughts in the past, that any time an aquarius seems like a revolutionary or "freedom fighter", it´s likely because they think their form of ruling is superior. they don´t want anarchy; rather they just want a different set of regulations.
another example would be the interaction between the human incarnations cronus and uranus. their roles were swapped here, as in: uranus was ruling and cronus was the revolutionary who overthrew him. this story shows how :157: :181: and :199: :181: are like two sides of the same coin

i´ve read from many astrologers talking about various forms of advancement and progress coming up for t:160: :181:. i see the :181: in those predictions but i don´t really see the :160:.
in my opinion society is too bloated with technology, and too bloated with "progress" which has become merely a political (:181:) term.
i feel that people forget we´re talking about :160: with this transit.
i don´t know where such technological innovations would come from. the intelligence of ´western´ countries is decreasing, due to dysgenic elements and degeneration of culture.
i haven´t seen any evidence that ai will do very much either. i don´t see how it´s different from the chat bots of 5-10 years ago, except more advanced and much more regulated. to me it seems more like a children´s toy, or something that people will use to do their thinking for them. i remember about 8 years ago when self driving cars were ´right around the corner´, and yet we still don´t have them.

rather than a new technological revolution, which sounds like some sort of benefic:181: transit, i expect something more like the opposite.
rather than flying cars, i would expect air travel to be banned/limited for ´climate change´ purposes.
the climate change stuff, at least with regards to the politics that surrounds it, will surely be subject to :160:. pretty much the whole topic is just a big aquarian racket. i think the atmosphere itself is an aquarian topic since it could be considered fixed air.

i think pluto in aquarius will give us more "breaking free from the matrix" sentiments (to quote andrew tate - a modern pop figure). uncoincidentally, andrew tate has created his own ´matrix´ network through his university and other online stuff

maybe a good way to visualize t:160::181: would to think of the story of cronus and uranus, but replace each one of those characters with hades.

===
>The public is hard to realize what is going on, possibly preferring to follow the trend of influencers!
===

i think the term "useful idiot" is related to :181:, though surely it would be considered a negative manifestation of the sign. either way it is something that will be influenced by :160: during the transit.


that article mentioned the usa civil war happening last time neptune went into aries. i think it´s more likely that a ´civil war´ would break out in europe. before the american civil war the usa was similar european union, in that the colonies were considered to be their own places and the union was just an agreement that they were supposed to benefit from. the south´s secession was very similar to brexit, and the southerners considered themselves as being invaded by foreigners when the north showed up. i would say this means there could be something involving russia, since i know the people in power love to provoke russia as a means of creating bloodshed on all sides, but with pluto in aquarius i think it´s much more likely that people would rather go to war with their own governments than go to war in a foreign land for no conceivable benefit their own people (but maybe that´s giving too much credit to the common citizen).
i know it will be a little while before neptune gets to aries so maybe the conflict over there will be sorted out by then, but i think wars typically last longer than expected.

thank you for that article by the way. i found it useful. (in case it seems like i have nothing but problems with it). overall i´m hopeful about the upcoming pluto transit, although maybe my scorpio ascendant makes me biased.
February 12, 2023 at 17:18
(Leo) plumreme » stigmí
I´m holding my thoughts on what it signals globally, except to say that I feel a mix of hope and caution ... of course, this could be projection, b/c it´s how I feel about how Pluto interacts with my own natal chart. I´m all Sag, Leo, Gemini

Personally, Pluto will (in order, starting in March)

Trine DC, Sextile AC

Oppose Sun (and square Uranus & Chiron)

Trine Mars & Lilith

Sextile Moon/Neptune conj

Oppose Saturn

Trine Jupiter Venus conj

Oppose Mercury.

During the first few years of this, Saturn will square or quincunx all of these. Then Neptune and Saturn will trine and sextile all of this, then comes Uranus in Gemini... conjuncting, sextiling or opposing all of them.

Telling myself if I can just make it through the next two years, there will likely be a lot of relief and ease. Anyway, an interesting time for fire and air heavy folks, especially in the early degrees!
February 12, 2023 at 16:31
(Virgo) Lea2191
AI stocks have gone through the roof in the last month. Everything artificial intelligence is hot. It is as if this Pluto Aquarius can not wait till March to start it’s influence. Perhaps it is the 29 degree Mars that makes it in such a hurry.
February 11, 2023 at 14:12
iris70 » JesseZX
Thank you, Jess, for your contribution here, it is all food for...deep thought! :79: In fact, I agree with everything you say! :1:

============
one force is centralized (the aliens from ´They Live´) while the other is heavily decentralized (the people who can put on the glasses). the decentralized force has the advantage here, for a similar reason why the usa military failed in vietnam and the middle east; centralized vs guerrilla.
=============

Yes, the above example is very :181: indeed! You know, :181:
is ruled both by :157: who needs to control and restrict freedom in order to maintain the status quo and :199: who needs to reform, brings extreme and sudden disruption to existing circumstances upsetting harmony in favor of freedom and independence.The Uranian principle challenges anything and everything that is Saturnian; that which is conventional, traditional and orthodox. This is why :181: is so controversial; you cannot tell from which principle it acts. I feel that both act at the same time, though. There is some kind of clash with :181: as there is from one hand a need to maintain what is familiar/the status quo, often using authoritarian :157: tactics and on the other hand, there is an impulse for drastic action against everything Saturnian.
I feel you meant something like this in the quote above.

================
another example of an aquarian network would be the global rothschild banking system. they don´t claim ownership of course, but that´s only because it´s basically an LLC - which makes it even more in line with aquarius in my opinion.
================
I agree and the reason for this lies in the paradox of :181: rulership, as described above. Our banking system is becoming more and more an Aquarian network, everything is digital, paying/transferring money etc Another example is bit coins and other crypto. Some people say that there can be a rise in the use of them, but do not take my word on it and start investing, maybe!

Thanks about that French revolution video! History is not my strong point! I had no idea that Illuminati and secret societies emerged with the French revolution, when t :160: was last in :181:. It is interesting that many Astrologers, as I have also mentioned in one of the original posts, suggest the rise of a secret :160: society :181:, possibly to challenge and overthrow the existing one, or in general the status quo. It is true that those in power may find a way to remain where they are, if they act in a smart way-they are powerful, so they have the best advisors around them, which can help them find the best of disguise to maintain their power. The power of the Internet helps powerful people, as you never know who said something and what his real motives are. The public is hard to realize what is going on, possibly preferring to follow the trend of influencers! :85:

Yes, it appears to me that during the t :160: :181:, there will be great challenges and transformation of the net, suggested by the :194:. As it is also suggested by all astrologers, there is going to be great technological advancements, especially between 2025-2027, when t :199: :173: :193: :160: :181: both :198: :159: :171:.

This is a very good article:
https://astrologywithandy.com/2021/…
:74:
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