kind person vs unkindness in astrology ?

January 3, 2021 at 05:17 (UT/GMT)
(Sagittarius) jaderosez
kind person vs unkindness in astrology ?
I literally accidentally deleted my post. So excuse my laziness. But in general what do you guys use to figure out whether someone is a kind person, whether they operate with morals etc?

what in a chart would indicate someone with low morals, low character?

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January 4, 2021 at 02:47
(Virgo) rohini moon » jaderosez
No problem, homeslice. :32:
January 3, 2021 at 22:35
(Aries) JayJayAstrology
Here is Ted Bundy´s chart with Nessus. It is not conjunct his MC, unless you think 9 degrees is a fair orb. It is in Taurus, like my Nessus.
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January 3, 2021 at 22:00
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » rohini moon
Thank you for writing all this down. It is very interesting and insightful
January 3, 2021 at 21:58
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » MagentaP
That´s very interesting. I wonder what people would say about my chart with a 12rh house stellium, sag, and pluto involved.

But I´ll tell you something I have realized or discovered in relation to potentials. But this is only my thoughts so take it with a grain of salt

The most rare thing in your chart (that isn´t generational) speaks the most volume but it´s also contextual in the sense that it depends on where you are born, the given conditions (most serial killers are also a certain demographic like most are male, and not that I want to be ´sexist´ but testosterone, addition physical strength and the way society conditions a male versus a girl does play a role on how a chart would manifest and whether a chart aligns with someone becoming a serial killer).

I´ll give you an example. Let´s say you have three girls. One has sun in pisces, and another has sun conjunct neptune. (sun conjunct neptune is much rarer as less than 1/12 for every girl in the generation has it.) Both have similar meaning. Chances of someone having sun conjunct neptune is 1/365 if the orb was 0.

Let´s say that the sun conjunct neptune lives in a country where there´s a prevalence of divorce or a country that´s war-stricken, the sun conjunct neptune person is more likely to idealize a distant father who is never attainable in any form because dad died or divorced from mom, than the person with sun in pisces who lives in a country that has a low divorce rate, isn´t war stricken and is generally a peaceful and happy country.

I recently found out the interpretation of mercury pluto conjunction to be soo damn accurate that even the ones that were hard to predict like "dead twin" IS true.

But many astrologers don´t see things in a contextual manner and don´t know what factors to weigh when reading a chart.
January 3, 2021 at 21:42
(Sagittarius) MagentaP
Very interesting and particularly the discussion over Serial Killers. The reason being is my chart was read by a practicing astrologer as a chart depicting a violent person and likely a Serial Killer. I am still in the relatively early days of learning astrology, but very early on when testing astrology to see if it was something I wanted to explore, my method was to receive random thoughts in different forums on a variety of charts, mine, my mothers other family members etc. I did not put a name to the chart, just asked for feedback. On my chart - Sag. sun in 8th house with multiple T-Squares to outer planets (and positioned to experience Pluto transit conjunctions to all of my personal planets -currently conjunct my moon in Capricorn) - the Astrologer responded that my chart (she did not know it was mine) was the prototype for a serial killer. She insisted that she studied Serial Killers and the T-Squares to sun in the 8th house would yield a violent person. Now this was shocking to me - a vegan since 1983 (I did not want to kill animals for my food) and someone who cannot to this day watch a single violent action on TV/Film (I turn my head every time) this initially turned me off Astrology. Of course in further exploration another Astrologer said it could also mean I have to learn to jump hurdles - bingo that was spot on. So, circling back - can you read a chart to predict the character of a person? In my experience chart reading is in the eye of the beholder and a slight window into general potentials and how those potentials may manifest. :74:
January 3, 2021 at 21:40
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » JayJayAstrology
I don´t know what you´re replying to here. We´ll end it here if you don´t want to discuss some more. LOL I said that too! And besides, every time I make any ´generalisation´ about the symbolism, I´m not the one bringing up personal experience to argue a point.

You didn´t have to look at the study I gave you anyway, I´m simply having an open discussion here. OF course you´re not going to be replying to the valid concerns, arguments I bring up here. Just the ones you can easily dismiss.

Generalizations about a sign isn´t bad as long as people don´t think it´s applying to a person.

Here´s the thing about astrology. Noone knows how much to weigh factors in a chart as in what matters the most, and what comes in the way of a symbolism yielding some truth? If any seasoned astrologers, or studies showing what is impactful which can also be backed by a theoretical framework, symbolism, or methods of interpretation could be amazing. Like houses vs aspects vs sign positions vs house rulers in signs and houses vs fixed stars vs decans etc

An open discussion here would´ve been nice but many people get so offended and bring up personal stories that have very little to do with the argument. Then it becomes an ego game. So yeah, I´m not ending this discussion.
January 3, 2021 at 21:13
(Aries) JayJayAstrology » Green Garden
Where did you find the information that Nessus was on Bundy´s MC in birth chart?
January 3, 2021 at 21:09
(Aries) JayJayAstrology » jaderosez
I just said that Sagittarius is concerned with morals - it is into philosophy and religious ideals - right and wrong, good and bad. It is a sign that rules law and justice along with Libra. That isn´t all it is, but your post was asking about kindness and morality.

As someone said here, none of us are just a pure sign anyway, so any statement we might make about what a sign means will not represent the whole person.
January 3, 2021 at 20:54
(Virgo) rohini moon » jaderosez
From my book "Astrology of the Seers" by David Frawley.

"Five planets in Scorpio in the 4thhouse of the emotional nature. Most noticeable is his debilitated MOON Which is close to the Sun, as it is just past new. Before it, in Scorpio, is a conjunction of three firey planets: MARS, KETU and the SUN. Finally we have Mercury, which by its mutable nature takes on and magnifies the influence of Mars.

The fourth house, the moon, Mercury and the lord of the 4th house - Mars - are all severely afflicted, showing a deranged mind and emotional nature. The moon brings with it the influence of SATURN in CANCER, which it rules. As a LEO ascendant, the Sun is STRONGLY afflicted. Here we see Mars energy at its worst. A mind and heart saturated with violence. The violence directed against - MOON - WOMEN.

Jupiter and Venus are at the end degrees of libra in a cross sign conjunction with his planets all in Scorpio. Such a close grouping of planets, particularly with strongly disposed malefics, is not good.

The planetary rays get confused and murky (in Scorpio). His benefic conjunction Venus and Jupiter in libra allowed Bundy to ´appear" like a nice person and to attract women. As did his generally warm and expressive LEO ascendant. Yet being in his third house, ( a martial house) Jupiter/Venus are at an impulsive combination and kept him preoccupied with sex. Saturn in his 12th house shows his negative fate and time in prison.

Such people display a dark yet hidden character. The thrive on the drama and polarity generated by this deception. It was no doubt that inflated ego - and need for drama (LEO) and love of deception that motivated Ted Bundy.

Quite often behind the attempts to please others, is the egos need for power and drama, which can become violence when the darkness and ignorance behind it come out into the open.

All of his planets are between the 10th and 4th houses, on the PERSONAL side of the chart, with NOTHING on the relationship side. They are between Rahu and Ketu, showing a Kalasarpa Yoga, involving his emotional nature and the public image."

Whew! Yes I typed that all that out because the imgur upload thing, does not work for me anyway. I hope those interested found it helpful to learn more on how to properly read a chart.
January 3, 2021 at 20:53
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » Green Garden
Ohh wow that´s so interesting. Mc is also public reputation or what you are known for. And in the end he became known for Nessus.
January 3, 2021 at 20:50
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » leorising
Thank you for this!
January 3, 2021 at 20:49
(Taurus) » jaderosez
System message: Post has been written by user Green Garden, who already deleted profile on this website:

I think it is fitting. Just think at the massacre at the sorority house.
January 3, 2021 at 20:45
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » Green Garden
Ted Bundy has Nessus conjunct MC?
January 3, 2021 at 20:42
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » Moon_Queen
LMAOO we all know every sign has it´s negative stereotypes. The reason for this one is:

1) They are not a sign that recognizes beauty and not one like tauruses/scorpios who will simply stick with a beautiful woman they chose
2)Jupiter is the planet of the expansion
3) Honesty and non-nonchalantly saying things like: ("your friend has a nice ass." "Your friend has so much more money than you do") LOL
4) Won´t appreciate or think much of your internal OR external beauty, won´t see it with much acuity
5) They move on from you when their need for freedom supersedes any kind of intimacy they have formed with you. They are one of the most detached signs.
6) If you have a problem with them moving on, you´re scapegoated as the "crazy ex" lmao

I´m talking about purely the sign of sag, NOT a single placement of sag but the stereotypes people derive FROM the symbolism.

If people were pure signs, I wonder what a sag -scorpio relationship would like with the scorpio having many friends like libra/aries.

The sag would tell the scorpio that libra is hotter than her and scorpio would continue to delete every single picture of her on her social media and cry herself to sleep lmao Joke is on Scorpio because sag doesn´t even care for hot girls and cheats on her with Aries.

That should be stupid mini youtube series (I´d tune in).
January 3, 2021 at 20:35
(Taurus) » jaderosez
System message: Post has been written by user Green Garden, who already deleted profile on this website:
I am started to study the "abuser" asteroid Nessus and thought it would bei interesting to see the Nessus constellation in Ted Bundy´s chart.

It is a wide Nessus/MC conjunction with Square to his Saturn/Pluto conjunction in the 12th!
I got goosebumps by looking at the chart.
January 3, 2021 at 20:29
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » leorising
Do you guys give more importance to aspects? Do classical astrologers use transpersonal planets?
January 3, 2021 at 20:15
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » goldenlion32
They are a social and generous sign. They are not pretentious like many others. (eg Caps) However, (I myself is going into a mental health field), there´s a difference between helping a lot of people and getting some recognition for it and maybe even some god like status as a result(sags are known to be generaous) but they are not ones to be playing devil´s advocate for the underdog, and changing a system for ´fixing´ helping the undergod or even understanding what makes the underdog.

Now me saying all this, doesn´t indicate what I believe or what I advocate for. It´s just based on the symbolism. God isn´t going to make it easier/defend for the devil even if the devil had valid reasons to turn evil but God will in fact spare some level of generosity to anyone.

For example, leos are the king, and sags are "god" so they will one hundred percent be generous to give but they are also the ones that´ll allow/enable/enforce capital punishment rather than change the system that creates the underdog. Fire signs are the patriarchy (fire signs are male) who has everything, and gives when they feel like it. (Leo being the king, Sag is god, Aries is the general) all of them are leaders.

Also keep in mind Jupiter is broad and Positive, Saturn is restrictive and negative. So for pure sag energy to contemplate negativity is not their basic instinct.

The ones that change the system for the have-nots are OTHER signs. And these signs have good and bad to them as well and certain moral principles that guide them.

Now again, these symbolisms are like paint. A chart that makes a person is much more intricate with a complicated mixture of paint.

A moon conjunct neptune in sag/ Moon conjunct Anteres in sag/ Sun in sag/ And someone with moon in sag and sun and venus in capricorn as opposed to another combination IS going to be very different from eachother.

My argument with Jay Jay was solely based on the symbolism because at first she stated that sags were defined as morals but ted bundy, and then when I critiqued the notion of sags always being moral as to say sag´s symbolism is not really deep (because every sign has something missing), this was my attempt to clarify what I meant.

Because astrology does eventually turn into a game of discrimination because it is a system based on categorization. Often times, you have to be very careful with the language you use so thus my long posts, clarifications and analogies LOL
January 3, 2021 at 20:08
(Libra) leorising
I am studying classical astrology and on the chart the last thing we look at is the position of the planet in sign. we have to look at the terms and face of the planet is in, look at planetary dignities, look at the strength of houses, if the chart is day or night and after that account points ( not to mention fixed stars, asteroid and the Arab lots that may be in conjunction with the planet ) I believe that your intention to study charts should be more in-depth, than just consider the positioning of planets signs. :68:
January 3, 2021 at 19:55
System message: Post has been written by user Moon_Queen, who already deleted profile on this website:
Sagittarius is wonderful sing and I´m not sure when this reputation of shallow sex freaks started to follow them...

It might be because of their honesty, since they loudly and carelessly speak thing that other would rather hide.
January 3, 2021 at 19:38
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32 » jaderosez
I´d have to disagree somewhat with one line. You say Sagittarius won´t help the underdog. I have a lot of Sag in family and friends. They tend to be in Human Services which is pretty much every kind of rehab there is, homeless, mental health, medical health, developmentally disabled, mentally impaired, and tend to be a lot of educators in prisons, EMT´s, Police, Fire Fighters, Social Workers, Politicians,Etc. I suppose it depends on the Sagittarius soul contract. I have some who are in different branches of Firearms and Tobacco. Not sure, what you mean they aren´t willing to help the criminal? Many work with criminals every day.
January 3, 2021 at 19:38
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » JayJayAstrology
Also wanted to say something else. Morals and ethics encompass many aspects and certain signs are good with certain morals and ethical principles and not others.

Example: Sags may be generous and give openly money, compliments, but might hurt lovers along the way.

Scorpios would be stingy, stuck up, distrustful, but might give his life for a lover. But if he is hurt, he´ll take revenge.

If you know anything about Carl Jung´s Fe or Fi, or Ne or Ni cognitive functions, you´ll understand what I´m talking about.

So the thing is depth is not exclusive to morality. Of course these stereotypes are base on the symbolism of the signs.

And if you can´t make generalizations based on astrological symbolism, what use is astrology then? So reiterating, I´m trying to find when the symbolism of astrological aspects and signs should be used and when it should not be.

Secondly, I also want to say some planets do better in certain signs. So I wonder if someone with debilitated planets in bad houses, what exactly does that mean and what conclusions can you yield from that?

Like a sun in scorpio may be fine but moon in scorpio or venus in scorpio like you said? And for example a moon in sag (it isn´t debilitated), may be okay enough to lead a respectable life without committing extra crimes (or immoral acts that they will be held accountable for sooner or later).

Sun in sag might be even better because sun does well with fire signs, AND sun and jupiter (the ruler of sag) are friends.

Another thing to keep in mind, let´s say you do get a statistical significant results from a study (yours or the one I gave you earlier), how would you derive which symbolism is responsible for what thing? Like earlier I mentioned 12th house was prominent in the study (but could that mean it´s because 12th house is related to prisons, or deluded ways of thinking)
January 3, 2021 at 19:22
(Sagittarius) jaderosez » JayJayAstrology
I would love to see this study. If it is true, the venus in scorpio is interesting. I have included another study here and you can see for yourself. Would love your input. Who knows a bigger study might indicate that debilitated planets, or planets that do bad in signs may be an indication to something.

Sags aren´t deep, They are broad, there is a difference between the two. Both can be useful and amazing in their own way. That´s what the symbolism mean. I have a sag stellium, I´m not trying to discriminate here. Secondly, sag is not a responsible sign. It likes the path of least resistance, and it likes it´s freedom. It is THE sign of the harmless fuck boy archetype, excuse my language.

However, sag is the sign of generosity and ruled by the greatest malefic. But it is also the sign of God. And god wasn´t aware of what action God took that made lucifer turn evil (he once was the most dedicated angel and was relegated), Zeus wasn´t aware of why Hera was jealous, and Zeus left a hell lot of chaos behind him and brought out the worst in people. Sags are generous as the symbolism suggests, but that´s it. It´s not the type that´ll defend a past lover that they have felt nostalgic about for years and it´s certainly not someone that goes and protects or pulls the underdog above or prevents him from doing crime. Instead because of sag archetypes in the collective conscious (Yahweh, or Zeus), others are scapegoated eg lucifer and Hera, Lilith, Hades etc

Sags are good enough to be seen as Good, but careless enough to evoke a reactions so intense that the other force/person is seen as evil or scapegoated. So My point here is this is why it´s symbolism indicates that it "is moral" but I´m pointing out the problematic assumption of that notion itself as the very notion of Sag´s or God being good is an inability to think/look deeper.

Just ensuring this, no need to bring personal experience into it as much more things go into making a chart such as for example I have moon conjunct pluto in the 12th in sag and I´m an introverted girl, who is obsessive but at the same time I like to learn about everything and I like my freedom.

BUT I´m looking for instances when the interpretations of astrological symbolisms yield some truth, OR when they don´t and why that exactly is. Does that make sense?

With that being said, sag´s stars include things like Anteres, nakshatras(vedic lunar mansions) like Mula and jyeshta, and even have constellations like the serpent bearer that is in the sign of Sagittarius. HOW THAT CHANGES THE SYMBOLISM AND USEFULNESS OF THE SYMBOLISM OF SAG is something to note here and study in depth.

Like how would moon conjunct anteres look like in sag as opposed to it just being in sag. OR what is the difference between the serial killer sags, and the generous, freedom-loving but superficial sags I mentioned up there?

Which brings me to another topic that should be in a different forum but we all know tropical astrology is based on the sun´s light to the earth, and it is procession based, emphasizing equinoxes and solstices. However, that location of space is in a different constellation with different fixed stars and how that affects the symbolism and thus, the manifestation of the character of a person is also something I am interested in learning. For example: the serpent bearer constellation is very different from the general symbolism of sag. But I´m sure other constellations may be more in align with the tropical zodiac symbolism. I hope that makes sense.

My aim is not to virtue shame, generalize, discriminate, but just to find some sort of usefulness to astrology. No one is perfect, hell I am not either just look at my mess of a chart (I literally have the markings of a serial killer minus the neptune aspects)

Here´s a study here if you want to see, and sag up second:
Odds of the following is greater among serial killers:
1) 12th house prominance
2) neptune hard aspects
3) mutable signs with a higher likelihood of pisces and sag…
January 3, 2021 at 19:08
(Taurus) » Moon_Queen
System message: Post has been written by user Green Garden, who already deleted profile on this website:
I read that all his victims looked like the posh ex girlfriend! He was not good enough for her. She declined his marriage proposal.
Sounds like a sick, very sick revenge.
January 3, 2021 at 17:28
(Taurus) IIyyaarr13
J Vernon McGee shows the faith degrees of :175: & :181: activated from :173: by :193: & :198: and it was why he became a national figure in spite of being a slow native of South Texas!
Posts: 32-8 7-1
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