Connection between the sign ruler of houses and house rulers - Discussions, questions

Zephyrin » Anni23 "But then also ascendant would have the first initial effect right?"

Most probably, yes. In case asc conjuncts with a planet (or planets) in 12th house, the nature of 12th house may keep chasing you, affecting your impression on others.

You have Asc/Jupiter(12) conjunction but Uranus(4) Neptune(4) and Mercury(10) squares Asc. Emphasize of Capricorn and Libra.

I would say that person has a strong sense of justice, take very serious what her loves ones/family said about her appearance and personality, she might have been criticised badly by old, ignorant people and also might have to deal with their harm. Problems with people may lead to reticence. She works hard and learn everything as far as she can in order to perfect herself along her life.

Anni23 » Zephyrin I would agree that stelliums or conjunctions seem to be easier to observe for obvious effects when located in the same house. That´s interesting that you believe that the energy of the element of the house where multiple planets are located can be sensed. I would say that I assume the same can be said for me with three planets in the 12th, well I´m assuming.. But then also ascendant would have the first initial effect right?

Anni23 » TaylorS1986 Thank you for making this distinction, I think that if it is as you say not connected closely with any given sign then it is easier to attribute appropriate associations without additional complications. Yet I suppose it was done originally because the houses do "take on" or resemble certain signs

Anni23 » Jay Jay Yeah I wasn´t sure about that, and there´s other aspects of these potential placements that I´m equally unsure about, like I´m not that engaged with or connected to any larger social networking.. as at least I thought sun in the 11th house (house of Aquarius)likes to do..

Jay Jay » Anni23 I think you´re seeing the signs in too strict or limited way. Jupiter doesn´t have to be exuberant and the Sun on the 11th isn´t necessarily super social. You really ought to have a reading from a good astrologer so that you can see how it´s done. There are a lot of mediocre astrologers out there so make sure it´s a good one. The way you´re going about it, isn´t really going to get you satisfying answers.

Del » Jay Jay "say if someone had a sun in Aries in the 6th house, in Pisces,"

Anni23 » Jay Jay Yeah I´m not sure if I´m exuberant enough for it to be in the 1st. Also with my sun being in the 11th also if this was the case. That paints the picture of a ´very´ social person. Also as for the sun potentially being in the 11th, I´m not really engaged much at all in "helping people" to be honest

Jay Jay » Anni23 "Also I have Jupiter in libra in my 12th which is a bit odd as it´s supposed to be rising yet it´s in the last house".

Do you mean since it is conjunct the ASC it´s confusing that it´s listed in 12th house? The ASC is the sign on the eastern horizon when you were born. The chart is backwards in that on a regular map, east is on the right. Here, it´s on the left.

The planets are moving counter-clockwise. Jupiter was indeed on the horizon. But it´s also in the 12th. I´d probably read it in both houses and see how the person relates to each. A person with on the cusp "items" usually has a personality to fit those situations.

It really is difficult to explain to people just learning. This is the problem with internet learning. It isn´t systematic learning - taking it one step at a time in order to build in understanding. It´s a mish-mash of information that ends up confusing people.

Jay Jay » Anni23 The best way to learn astrology is to study people with the planet in sign and house. How do they use them? You can go in circles thinking theoretically.

Not aiming this comment specifically at you - but anyone reading this - just saying - a good astrologer will make every effort to validate any theory through observing people. We each learn from our work with our own charts, but also those of others. For a theory to be validated, it has to work for a lot of people - not just for you or a one or two charts - it has to really work - or else you can never get good at reading.

Anni23 » Jay Jay No it´s in leo, but in the 10th. If this clarifies. I suppose this is different from the original example I intended for your ordinary planet in the preceding house. Also I have Jupiter in libra in my 12th which is a bit odd as it´s supposed to be rising yet it´s in the last house..

Yes I understand the overall interpretation now. Some other things I am wondering for example though- if this individual would be concerned a lot with work, as their sun sign is obviously a foundation of their character if they would also adopt habits such as fastidiousness, work and duty consciousness etc. Which are qualities also attached to the sign of virgo. But then again if this would be altered in this case by Pisces so they would have a more relaxed attitude to work perhaps? Etc. These type of questions which address how the underlying character of the sun person may be altered or adjusted

Jay Jay » Anni23 I´ve read through our posts and can´t find your example of Sun in Cancer, 10th house.

If a planet is a quarter of a degree close to a neighboring sign, you will feel both signs. You will be someone on the cusp. Still no matter what, the sign on the house cusp will be the qualities you need to express through. The sign on the house cusp colors the whole house in some way.

EX: Sun in Aries close to the Pisces cusp in 6th house with Aries on the house cusp.

First, interpret Sun in Aries. If on the Pisces cusp, we note how we might also feel Pisces.

Second, interpret the meaning of the house by itself - what happens in 6th house? What area of life is stimulated? Then how does the Sun function in the 6th house. Do you really love pets? Are you work in a pet hospital? Do you have a science-type profession? Do you love helping and serving others? Do you like to teach or mentor others? These are 6th house activities.

Third, interpret the qualities of the sign on the house cusp - through which the planet will express itself. The Sun expressing through Aries on cusp will probably be assertive, enthused, pioneering and think independently, for instance. With Pisces influence, the Sun will feel extra-imaginative and creative, for instance.

If the Sun was solidly in Pisces instead of Aries, then the Pisces Sun would need to express more assertively to fully utilize its Pisces gifts - imagination, inspiration, and creativity. The Pisces Sun would not necessarily know to be more assertive - but when it does not have success, we astrologers tell clients to use the house cusp sign to promote or help the planet who is "out of sign".

Fourth, any aspects to that Aries/Pisces Sun from any other planet in the chart, can also influence how that Sun functions.

Very often we have a planet in a sign that is not the sign on the house cusp. For instance, Venus is in Leo in the 3rd house but Cancer is on the house cusp, or, Moon is in Libra in the 10th house, but Virgo is on the house cusp. You go through the same procedure described above.

I hope this helps.

Anni23 » Jay Jay Ahhaha Ok, actually mine is smack on the cusp so that´s probably why this slipped my attention.

Umm ok for the point of the example let´s say it is on the cusp, unless that complicates the answer a lot more or pick another planet. Or better yet just use my example of my sun in the 10th house of cancer

Sorry if this was confusing

TaylorS1986 The modern idea of "house rulerships" in natal astrology (along with the rest of the 12-letter alphabet equating signs, houses, and planets) was largely invented by Alan Leo a century ago because he misunderstood house significations meant for medical astrology. It´s been regurgitated ever since because it allows lazy publishers to get away with just giving 12 delineations rather than 144.

The 6th house is just the 6th house, it has nothing to do with Virgo. Its significations come from it not being connected to the 1st house by a major aspect, but connected to the 10th and 2nd by trines. Traditionally the 6th is considered the house Mars has its joy in and was called the Place of Bad Fortune.

I have Jupiter in Pisces in the 6th. Jupiter there in its own sign seems to represent my concern for issues regarding the disabled and the working class. Both groups are specified by the 6th house and I belong to both groups (Jupiter sextiles both my luminaries).

Jay Jay » Anni23 "say if someone had a sun in Aries in the 6th house, in Pisces,"

You are confusing me!If the Sun is in Aries in the 6tth house, where does Pisces come in? You can´t have a sun in two signs, unless it is smack on the cusp of two signs.

Or you mean Pisces on house cusp, Sun in Aries in that house. Sun is influenced most by Aries but it expresses through Pisces house cusp - will need to use some Pisces qualities.

You have to look at the whole chart to ascertain how any one factor is going to influence the personality. There´s no formula for the example you´re bringing up.

Just think - in a house, it is what the planet is DOING in that area of life. The Sign is more like the psychological quality. Yes, they are often very similar - Virgo, 1st house - Libra, 7th house - but the house is the action and the sign is the quality.

Zephyrin "And if you have several planets in one house does this mean that you are heavily influenced by the ruler of that house? (Ie. 6th house Virgo etc"

As far as I observed from the charts of people I know well, yes they are mostly under the influence of the sign but also the element of the house, in some cases. Let´s say someone has Aquarius stellium; Mars, Sun and Venus are in Aquarius and in 12th house. No doubt there is Pisces influence due to the house but he/she may not act like a Pisces. Instead the first thing we perceive may only be the water energy.

"6th house in Pisces but any planets positioned there still get the Virgo energy right? But it combines with the piscean vibe as well?"

You might be right. A conjunction between Sun and Mercury in pisces in 6th house may condense the Virgo energy, too.

Anni23 » Jay Jay Thanks for making this distinction between houses and their sign rulers. So you would say houses then may have the greater effect, by the placement of planets within them than just the sign that the individuals house happens to fall in. Or is the energy still very much combined?

Yet also, although I understood your explanation, it has seemed to me that many of the characteristics of a given house (and placements there) coincide almost directly with the sign that is meant to rule it. Perhaps some characteristics are more immovable, especially when planets are placed under the overarching influence of a given house in a given sign. As for the example to give both piscean characteristics to any planets in the 6th house, and to the house itself as well aswell as simultaneously still being in the house of virgo so taking on those themes and characteristics too

I understand the last thing you mentioned quite well, that the sign a planet is in first and foremost influences it. Although of course then there is still the question of whole signs or not..

Also to continue further with the example, say if someone had a sun in Aries in the 6th house, in Pisces, how would this effect their personality? Because it would be also manifesting itself through each individual planet to have various effects on the identity of the sun in Aries person by altering even the basic Aries character. Specifically as the sun is perhaps the core of our identity in what order would the person associate themselves as being after a Aries? Would the character itself also take on piscean and Virgo characteristics in how they express themselves as a individual?

Jay Jay Yes, this can be confusing.

The sign on house cusp influences all the planets in that house.

If a planet is in a house with a different sign than the house cusp, the that planet is still primarily influenced by the sign it is in, but will have to express itself through the cusp sign.

The planet ruling the house cusp sign, will still affect the house, even if it is found in a different house and sign.

A planet in a house - your example - 6th house, because it is Virgo´s natural house will have a Virgo feel, but the houses are areas of experience where a sign is a psychological or archetypal quality. So a house isn´t exactly the same as a sign.

For instance, Virgo is all about details and analysis - it has qualities of being a perfectionist - and is often self-doubting. These are not house qualities. The 6th house is about health, pets, science, research, medicine, aunts and uncles, mentors, service to others. These are areas of life experiences rather than psychological Virgo qualities. Yes, there are similarities because a lot of Virgos are health conscious, and like to research. But, many Virgos will not especially be into pets or choose Science or medicine for a profession - although some will.

I don´t think you want to see these energies as blending and combining before you see them for what they are separately. A planet in Aries in the 6th house with Pisces on the cusp is first and foremost, influenced by Aries in the area of life that is the 6th house but needs to express through Pisces for success. So, Sun in Aries will be pioneering or a leader in the 6th house of medicine - so could be a doctor - who is top of his field, but in order to succeed, he needs to tap into his Pisces imagination and inspiration.

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