In Defense of Whole Sign House System

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July 13, 2019 at 18:40 (UT/GMT)

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ancient_astrology

In Defense of Whole Sign House System

1) Whole Sign House System. What is it? Well, no matter where your ascendant falls in a sign, that whole sign becomes your first house. So if you have the Ascendant at 14 degrees Cancer, the entire sign of Cancer is your first house. Even if your Ascendant is at 28 degrees of Cancer, the first house is Cancer. Your other houses would be the subsequent houses. So if you first house is Cancer, your second house would be Leo, etc.

2) There is a reason there are 12 houses. It´s because they were meant to accompany the twelve signs.

3) Whole Signs was the ORIGINAL House System. It´s older than 2000 years old. It apparently got lost during the Medieval Ages, when astrological texts were being retranslated from Arabic back into Latin.

4) When the Hellenistic astrology texts were influencing Indian astrology, as seen in the Yavanajataka, whole signs house system was introduced into Indian astrology. Whole signs house system has been the main house system used in Indian astrology for the past 2000 years.

5) Personally, it´s when I started playing around with whole signs systems that large parts of my chart suddenly made more sense. For example, I could never get on board with my Venus in 11th house. From my life perspective, it made sense when it ended up in 12th house. Other things fell into place as well.

6) One of the dangers of astrology is that we aren´t critical. You can always fit your life into the procrustean bed of astrology.

7) Play around with the Whole signs systems seriously. I can´t convince you of its value. The above statement are just to tell you that this system has been around a lot longer than, say, Placidus. It has an uninterrupted history in Indian astrology. Does that make it right? No, but it does make it worth considering.

8) The great astrologer Robert Hand has been using Whole Signs since the 90s. Read his essay on it here for a more through defense:

http://planetwaves.net/pdf/…

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August 16, 2019 at 03:48

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fishscales » skinnylegsandall

"Whole Sign nay sayers say why use an antiquated system when astrologer, mathmeticians, and astronomers have come up with more precise ways of measuring distances?"

To me, the fact that the whole sign system was used in antiquity is one of the strongest arguments in its favor.

Modern society tends to fall in love with their "advancements" and automatically labels them as "progress."

I´m not downing the Placidus system...I use it myself, primarily...but just because something is touted as superior to something else because it utilizes newer techniques does not necessarily make it so.

To make a kind of analogy, the Giza Pyramids seem like relatively simple structures on the surface.

I have a feeling that if we tried to build them today however, we´d be in for a rude awakening, despite our architectural and technological "advancements."

I guess the point I´m trying to make is that I would never discount the virtue and validity of something just because it seems antiquated by today´s standards, or because someone says "oh, there´s a better way of doing things now."

August 16, 2019 at 02:04

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skinnylegsandall » fishscales

This subject satisfies my interest in debate :2:

love coming back to it now and again lol

Like many, I began my personal astrological journey with Placidus house system. Until I found an astrologer who explicitly uses Whole sign did I realize there was more than 1 house system!
It was an exhilarating period looking at my natal placements through it´s lens.
My Moon moved into the 1st (it´s placed in the 12th with placidus,koch, equal etc.) and Sun moved into the 8th which just CLICKED.

bbbbuuuuttttt...
There is a part of me that has an innate need for facts. Data. Proof!(working on my faith haha)
Looking at my chart in comparison to ALL the house systems (if you haven´t done this i recommend it if you´re curious) the natal placements shown in my astro-seek profile win. Whole sign is the ONLY house system that deviates from the usual distribution of my planets. Practically ALL other house systems have the same planet placements.

Another argument that is simple yet important in my opinion is that whole sign is rough. By rough I mean in it´s precision. Whole Sign nay sayers say why use an antiquated system when astrologer, mathmeticians, and astronomers have come up with more precise ways of measuring distances?
A visual: The technology of a 2001 nokia phone vs. the latest iPhone, Samsung etc.

Right now I´m leaning towards my Whole Sign placements until someone drops some knowledge on the subject that isn´t "Just choose what works for you" or my favorite "It doesn´t matter".

:20:

July 15, 2019 at 01:16

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fishscales

For anyone who´s interested, this article was very helpful to me when I first started investigating the whole sign house system:

https://kellysastrology.com/2018/…

July 14, 2019 at 17:37

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ancient_astrology » TimeSciences

<<t would be very helpful if astro-seek included an interpretation with the traditional horoscopes generated based on Evangeline Adams´ books for example or maybe a mention of other authors if they choose to combine interpretations because not everyone has immediate access to the works of these and others such as Robert Hand.>>

I understand why Petr opts for having Placidus as the default. After all, that´s what most people are used to. I am very thankful to him for including a Traditional Astrology calculator.

I am hoping that some people read this thread and will at least start playing around with the Whole Signs system.

July 14, 2019 at 17:30

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ancient_astrology » IIyyaarr13

Indeed the term for the angle houses (1st, 4th, 7th and 10th) among the Hellenistic astrologers was κέντρον, a sharp point.

July 14, 2019 at 17:18

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ancient_astrology » Leo Moon

You are right to mention the question of geography. At extreme latitudes, when using Placidus, one house can span three different signs. I´m thinking if you´re born in the extreme North or extreme South.

July 14, 2019 at 02:27

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Leo Moon » ancient_astrology

Ok. It is the time. I have about two months of study so I am constantly wrong . I am glad to learn.

July 14, 2019 at 00:58

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ancient_astrology » Leo Moon

Because of your birth time, yours is very close to being like Whole Signs. Nothing to do with being born in Tennessee. After all, I was born in Tennessee, too. :6:

July 13, 2019 at 23:51

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Leo Moon

Interestingly my chart is exactly the same I think as Placidus or whole house.
I guess being born in Tennessee has something to do with that.

I will have to examine the small details and see if anything is different.

July 13, 2019 at 23:39

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HeavenSent

So interesting. Agree. And thank you.
As my Asc is :182:

, and bc in Placidus, I have intercepted Houses, my chart ends up looking a lot like a whole house chart, with Aries (unfortunately intercepted) in House I, I can attest that in my personal experience, this is true. Hope that makes sense? (It does to me, anyway.)

:78:

July 13, 2019 at 23:10

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Leo Moon

I appreciate You explaining the whole sign system.

I had been wondering about it since You brought it up in a thread a few days ago.

I will check it out. Thank You.

July 13, 2019 at 19:58

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TimeSciences

Since I hadn´t used Astrology since my teens (20+ years ago) finding the popularity of Placidus & learning for example of Neptune in Scorpio occurring in my 8th house vs. 9th was rather bizarre, but then further exploration and learning of recent & historic individuals such as Evangeline Adams and W.D. Gann reveals differences between ´Popular/Psychological´ (highly general) vs. ´Traditional´ Astrologies which include much more and have notable histories of predictive accuracy. It would be very helpful if astro-seek included an interpretation with the traditional horoscopes generated based on Evangeline Adams´ books for example or maybe a mention of other authors if they choose to combine interpretations because not everyone has immediate access to the works of these and others such as Robert Hand.

July 13, 2019 at 19:19

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IIyyaarr13

Some of the folks with 00 dg. 00 min. Ascendants are terribly confused, it helps to have a number ´in´ the sign. It helps less to have it at the very edge; Cusp to cusp means spear-point to spear-point.
Someone with a 15 degree :176:

rising is a purer Virgo than I am at 1 1/2 dg. :176:

July 13, 2019 at 19:07

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fishscales

I have been impressed with the accuracy of the whole sign system in relation to my own chart.

Have not really researched it too extensively in the charts of others, although I´ve gotten to the point that if I´m looking at someone´s chart, I´ll almost always look at their whole sign placements in addition to Placidus.

The thing is, I find accuracy in my Placidus placements as well.

As I´ve written in this forum many times, I find that for me and my chart, whole sign is more accurate when it comes to physically demonstrable events and circumstances, and Placidus seems more accurate in terms of delineating psychological qualities.

That is just the theme that keeps coming up for me with my chart.

One thing that´s for certain is that I´m not inclined to disregard the whole sign system due to the fact that it has been around so long, and can be considered the "original" house system.

Those are the reasons why I started researching it in the first place.

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