Accidental dignity?

June 3, 2019 at 00:32 (UT/GMT)
(Pisces) fishscales
Accidental dignity?
What do you think of the concept of accidental dignity, ie, a planet being dignified due to house position?

Second question: if you do adhere to the concept of accidental dignity, do you think it applies to modern rulerships, traditional rulerships, or both?

For example, if Pluto is accidentally dignified in the 8th house, do you believe Mars, the traditional ruler of Scorpio, is also dignified in the 8th house?

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July 26, 2020 at 17:39
(Aries) astro-flame » leorising
Yup, planets in the 8th always go through a transformation during your lifetime. And with the NN in the 9th you´re the seeker of the higher truth! :17: :17:
July 26, 2020 at 13:58
(Scorpio) Promethean_Soul » fishscales
It is very important in classical astrology when we talk about accidental dignities. It is very wide subject and i dont want to lose my time to find out it is true or not. For example it is said if a planet is near sun less than 9 degree , then it is under beam and planet debiliates minus 5 points. If a planet conjuncts with spica it gives plus 4 points. Spica + 4 , Regulus + 5 , Algol - 5. Where are Sirius, Arcturus, Rigel, Betelguese, Fomalhaut and so on. They are very strong fixed stars and why they have no effect when we account accidental dignities? Another question , oneday I watch our turkish astrologer who is well know and classical astrologer , he says 8th house is not house of sex and money he is very very bad house, but when he talked about part of fortune in Bill Gate´s chart he said , this is house of sharing money and power. what happened that bad house? I respect astrologers but i dont like when they distort truths. It is very easy to manipulate a chart with many probabilities. I remeber in a chart that wasnt seen anything bad but astrologer said jupiter is in such degree and this degrees term ruler is saturn and saturn is malefic so this happened. i dont like this and i am fighting against this to play with words to manipulate people. many people around world still dont trust astrologers , we need to be honest to ourselves first.
My mother has very very close friend and she is like my second mom. she has a son which his name is same with me and we had very very close relationships. a few months ago son of my second mom whose name is same with me died from terrorist attack and i could not believe that. He passed goverment exam and bacame a stuff in custom service and after his mother´s very very hard effort i asked myself how God let this very honest and good hardworking guy die? I was inceredbly sad. I asked his mom his birth date and time. I looked his chart and transits. He was sagittarrius asc like me then i understood why we had very good relationship. In his chart i didnt see somethinbg interesting in transits. But what drew my attention he has jupiter in leo in 9th house, pluto in sciorpio in 12th house and his neptune was conjunct with north node. İ told his mom he had so so deep and divine love to God and God also -loves him but how it can be done? her mom said last year he said ´mom I want to be die for our country and many people come to my funeral´. I understood real reason behind this. God realised his wishes. But i think many astrologers would try to find something. I found real reason before her mom told me fact. This is a case showed me when make prediction and analyze we need to be careful and honest. My critics are very harsh i know but after solving this problems we can believe in astrology. I am not interested in being astrologer , i just want to make astrology real contribution without expecting anything. I want to help astrologers if i can. So i am always very very carefull when i read something about astrology and hundred times think about it.
I know i write very long sorry for that, but i want to say something lastly. You know there are some degrees when planets exalts in signs. for example moon exalts in taurus 3. i had my own researches and moon is very strong in taurus 27 and it is moon taurus in sidereal. jupiter exalts in cancer 15 degree but jupiter exalts in preasape star cluster there is very strong energy there and i saw jupiter works very strong between 6 and 8 degree leo and it is between 14-16 degree cancer. We need to solve firstly why this degrees were given and why they exalt in sidereal system not in tropical. it is very important topic and thanx for that.
July 26, 2020 at 13:32
(Libra) leorising » astro-flame
I have a testimony for my jupiter in pisces at 8, it is a blessing, but I had to go through crises at all stages where I had to grow up. it is like that story of the eagle that has to lose its beak, it hides for a while until the new beak is born. I think it´s more or less like the story, or the crustacean that the shell is small and he has to hide to find a new shell. it is a painful process. but thank god it has worked so far.
and my faith in God always grows after overcoming every crisis :108:
with this post I also understood the nature of my north node in 9th house, and jupiter in 8th. then my north node will always cause transformations in my life :68:
July 26, 2020 at 12:59
(Pisces) fishscales
This is an old thread, but I was curious if any of the new crop of members have an opinion
June 3, 2019 at 17:21
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » IIyyaarr13
System message: Post has been written by user Liquidized.Mind.LM3992, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
Venus is solid rock... :4: :83:
June 3, 2019 at 17:09
(Taurus) IIyyaarr13
There are no accidents; George Washington, J R R Tolkien, Winston Churchill all miraculously survived the impossible because we needed them!
There are no coincidences, the mean surface gravity of Mars and Mercury are truly actually identical because Mercury is the north terrain of Mars over a core that once served Mars!
The sign positions are more powerful than the house positions otherwise children would have deserted public school much faster and earlier than they did! :1: :5: :4: :5: :62: :46:
June 3, 2019 at 14:54
(Aries) astro-flame » SpaceChild
You´re welcome! Feel free to ask any questions :98:
June 3, 2019 at 14:47
(Aries) astro-flame » fishscales
"I am guessing that, in your view, Mars does not gain much, if any, strength being in a house that is associated with a sign Mars is the traditional ruler of.

The reason why I´ve become interested in this is because I recently found one of my older astrology books that lists Mars as being in "accidental dignity" in the 8th house, but I do not seem to come across this view almost anywhere else."

Yes, correct. I would say it gains slightly, but nothing to write home about.

The biggest problem I think is the argument about which dignity has more weight to it - some authors root for accidental(house), some for essential (sign). But I understand them as 2 different things that can not be compared on the same scale. It´s like comparing rain and chocolate. One is wet and the other is sweet. Which one is better? Or which one is stronger? :117:

Same with 2 different dignities (or lack of them): What´s worse - to have ability but no opportunity or to have opportunity, but no ability? It just needs to be used as 2 different tools and it depends on the type of work you do. As I mentioned in the original answer - for natal analysis, primary focus is on angular houses, because these planets show up better, they´re more noticeable, have more influence.

All the other houses can be just viewed *in natal work* as "not angular" :3:

Now, if you do elective charts - then succedent and cadent are worlds apart!
June 3, 2019 at 14:08
(Pisces) fishscales » astro-flame
"So I´m thinking: maybe BEFORE the transformation it is weak, and after it becomes stronger? Or maybe when the transformation happens, it has a chance of going either way and if a person is not ready for it/fights the transformation then it really damages the planet?... or even this way: the planet is transformed and needs to be used in a new way, but an individual continues to try to use it in an old way and doesn´t get good results anymore... like trying to run an electric car on gas :61:"

All interesting takes. I am also wondering if failure to transform planetary energies in the 8th could also lead to an exaggeration of those planetary energies, but in an unhealthy, unproductive way...sort of like bread that´s put in the oven in order to rise, but left in too long. It will rise to the point that it collapses...similar to the "damage" you describe happening to 8th house planets that fail to transform...but before it collapses...it will get really out of control!
June 3, 2019 at 13:43
(Aries) astro-flame » fishscales
No problem ))

Yes, the succedent are in the middle, but thanks for reminding, since there is one important exception: the 8th, of course :92: :122: :21:

Now, it has bad rep and in many sources it is considered as weak as 12th, but I just want to put stress on the fact that ALL of the above is just a reference guide and one of the ingredients in a multi-layered cake. So 8th house placement is viewed as bad/weak by many, but I say: it depends on the rest of the chart/an individual.

8th house brings crisis, catharsis, transformation (not in an easy way) and some individuals can´t handle or are to scared of it. Also just had this discussion with my tutor and she said that an 8th house planet always undergoes a transformation at some point in life. So I´m thinking: maybe BEFORE the transformation it is weak, and after it becomes stronger? Or maybe when the transformation happens, it has a chance of going either way and if a person is not ready for it/fights the transformation then it really damages the planet?... or even this way: the planet is transformed and needs to be used in a new way, but an individual continues to try to use it in an old way and doesn´t get good results anymore... like trying to run an electric car on gas :61:

P.S. Also, alongside with 8th being sort of demoted to "weak", 9th is slightly better than the other cadent, cuz of affiliation with Jupiter
June 3, 2019 at 13:38
(Scorpio) SpaceChild » astro-flame
Thanks for your reply lol, I do find it a bit confusing so I will re-read it and go over it a couple times :)
June 3, 2019 at 13:30
(Pisces) fishscales » astro-flame
If you don´t mind, I´ve just got one more question, YC88...

I have Mars in Taurus in the 8th.

I am guessing that, in your view, Mars does not gain much, if any, strength being in a house that is associated with a sign Mars is the traditional ruler of.

The reason why I´ve become interested in this is because I recently found one of my older astrology books that lists Mars as being in "accidental dignity" in the 8th house, but I do not seem to come across this view almost anywhere else.
June 3, 2019 at 13:16
(Aries) astro-flame » fishscales
My pleasure :34: :17:
June 3, 2019 at 13:13
(Pisces) fishscales » astro-flame
:4: Excellent and enjoyable explanation, thank you.

Edit: what about succedent houses though? Average suburban town where you have to drive somewhere else to get something really good?

Edit 2: sorry, I see you already covered this in your original answer :1:
June 3, 2019 at 13:04
(Aries) astro-flame » SpaceChild
Yes and no... I know, very confusing :63: :43: LOL

I´ll give a simple everyday analogy:

1)so we´ll compare planets to people in our analogy
2)essential dignity - being in their own sign/sign of exaltation/fall/detriment - can be compared to how much money that person has. In it´s own sign? Rich guy! Detriment? Broke! No dignity or detriment? Just an average person.
3) The houses are compared to the ABILITY to spend that money. Angular (1-4-7-10) are like being in the mall or busy market. Cadent (3-6-9-12) are like being on a deserted island or in a small village with one bar, one pharmacy and 2 grocery stores.

Even if a planet has a lot of "money" it has little opportunity to spend it in a cadent house. Just as I was writing I remembered a perfect example - I hope you´ve seen Braking Bad! If you have - remember in the last season Walter goes into hiding somewhere in Vermont or Mass or something like that? He has literally a barrel full of money but he CAN NOT spend it, cuz he´s in hiding and isolation (here it´s clearly a 12th house example).

On the other hand, a planet can be in a busy marketplace (angular house) but have holes in both pockets and all it can really do is buy a bottle of water :24:

And here is where aspects come in. Aspects are like the people´s connections. Say you have a "poor" planet in a "busy mall" house. Say this planet has a trine or a sextile from another planet which has more "money". So the poor planet goes:"hey, we´re friends (trine-sextile) right? Can I borrow a few bucks?"

And the "rich" planet on the deserted island, if it has friends in an angular house can say "Hey, I´ll give you some money - could you buy some things for me?" And just like in everyday life, if those planets are "poor" they´ll say "Sure, but we get to keep the change, right?" :27:

Obviously, you now have to translate this analogy into astrological language and say that the planet doesn´t "buy" things, but "expresses itself", but I was just trying to get the point across.

Now, in addition to aspects, the receptions are also connections. E.g. I have a 9th house Sun in Aries (rich guy in the middle of the woods) ruled by Mars in Taurus 10th. Mars is in 10th and has plenty of opportunities, but it´s in detriment (poor) so the Sun can act through it.

Remember, negative aspects are ALSO connections. They are not friendships, they are difficult and even hostile relationships, but guess what? Sometimes you have no choice and in order to get something done you have make deals with people you dislike, cuz they got access to what you need ))))
June 3, 2019 at 11:59
(Scorpio) SpaceChild » astro-flame
Interesting topic, and thanks YC88 for the information about it.

I have Mars in 4th, Pluto and Sun in 7th, and Saturn in 10th - so these all would be stronger in accidental dignity rather than being in their own rulerships? Am I comprehending this correctly?
June 3, 2019 at 03:06
(Aries) astro-flame
Accidental dignity is more useful in things like horary and elective astrology. In natal work it brings some confusion, I think.

"For example, if Pluto is accidentally dignified in the 8th house, do you believe Mars, the traditional ruler of Scorpio, is also dignified in the 8th house"

Accidental dignity is a little different. Here you´re talking about natural rulership/affiliation of signs/houses, e.g. Mars-Aries-1st house, Mercury-Gemini-3rd house (Virgo and 6th). So Pluto in the 8th is in the house of its natural rulership, which is still important and actually helps with the accidental dignity, because 8th house is considered to weaken the planet, but Pluto is at home here.

As for the actual accidental dignity, it goes by the types of the houses - angular (1-4-7-10) are the strongest and this is actually used in natal too. Planets in angular houses are important. But for the other two types - succedent and cadent - I haven´t really seen much distinction in natal, yet they matter a lot in horary or elective because it shows how much power to act each planet has.

To sum up - Pluto in 1st, 4th, 7th or 10th will be seen as stronger than in the 8th, even though it is a NATURAL ruler of the 8th, because angular houses bring focus on the planets they contain.


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