The Foundation: Season 2 - they´ve fixed the issues

August 17, 2023 at 18:40 (UT/GMT)
The Foundation: Season 2 - they´ve fixed the issues
Goddaym, if you know what I mean.

Just finished second episode of Season 2, and I can say that they seem to have fixed the main issues with Season 1 - the pacing and the overuse of narration at some points, and defocusing off of some characters that ought to be main at the expense of others who are very important but were perhaps too good actors and just too fascinating of a subject to pass on.

If they keep NOT making the mistakes of S1, this is going go be the second best sci-fi show in history after Babylon 5. Babylon 5´s depth won´t be touched, because it´s too expensive/risky to go into that territory, and remember B5´s Season 1 was quite crappy and a bit of a pain to go through until it picks up into S2. So.. I say.. don´t be discouraged just cause S1 was meh - recall that B5´s S1 was even more meh.

Shit slaps! This ain´t no Battlestar Galactica weak drink stuff! What do you remember from BSG? Chief Tyrol´s wife bein thrown out of the airlock being the highlight of the show! Then his drunken, bitter public rant about how his wife smelled like cabbage or something, and her eyes were dull and vacant.. now that was a new territory, never explored before in the mainstream.

Yeah this show is far from that..

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September 17, 2023 at 05:26
cubic » Rosincvist
Good stuff, thanks for sharing.

Makes me appreciate B5 even more remembering how SCI-FI it was a time when we had nothing like the imagined gadgets/lasers. Back then the stuff seemed out of reach and removed from reality. Pure fantasy basically..

We had 2 channels at the time in my glorious Eastern European shithole + MTV (!) and NO cable TV. Like the conception of cable tv was an unknown .

They started airing it about 1 hour after prime time, which was odd and I found it odd at the time too. I mean a sci-fi show is worthy of that much of a spotlight? What would a broke ass nation find in a sea of high minded visions and space journeys? Might be the last straw before the next big protest. But some of the guys running the national tv had mad taste in many things, the music intros to custom programs were high calliber underground electronics too. I´m still impressed by their selections.

Then S1 finished.. and S2 was aired on Channel2 - now that seemed more normal now. However.. halfway through S2, right exactly where the previous-station encounter happens, THEY CUT IT OFF :61: :61: :61:

When I realized it by reading the next-week´s-program in the newspaper I was livid. I understood what it is like for these people that throw TVs out of the window when their football team loses. I wanted to throw the TV myself.. how can they drop it in such an amazing peak moment.. still props to them for having the balls to air it to begin with!

So that´s where I know it from.. I finally had the opportunity to finish it in the early-mid 00s after switching from modem to ADSL and the availability of torrents.
September 16, 2023 at 19:17
(Taurus) Rosincvist » Leo Moon
:96: In the nineteen eighties, Sci Fi books with many pages resembling scripts for actors were more popular than giant softcover tomes written by semi-literate yutzes & yo-yos! :95:
Babylon Five was on FOX television in Los Angeles, but I think it went to cable for the fourth & fifth season in that decade that cell-phones were still thought of as giant walkee-talkees!
There are glass-tubes on :155: to spare travelers Martian wind just like in the TV show!
The idea that "I am going down a Disney Maintenance Corridor to visit a human size CGI Praying Mantis" was something most of us were not expecting!
Jay Michael Straczynski became host of Hour Twenty-Five Science Fiction on the Toluca Lake / Universal City Pacifica afilliate, none of the shows were recorded in the radio station cuz the hosts, guests and audience were regarded by the station´s staff as mostly silly and goofy "white boys" who would eventually just "be gone" like most of the station´s experimental programming!
September 15, 2023 at 12:50
Had somet ime to finish Season Two.

I was right (lol) this IS getting even better.

The last two episodes were 9.5-9 out of 10, really. EP 9 might be a straight 10, all in all. I´ll have to rewatch it to make sure.

Really, really engaging show, which I thought at first they´d struggle with. It seemed like it, given how S1 was, but honestly, that might end up being one of its strongest features: emotional involvement/engagement.

They´re getting better with each episode, seemingly starting with S2. Goddamn, I´m more than happy. This is unfolding in an amazing way, and I care not how much and in what little ways it diverges from the book. The book is just the main plotline... the rest is something REALLY good now.

They´re introducing a very good level of complexity which I was getting worried about, but perhaps it was planned in order to slowly build the foundations of the plot. that is still readily comprehensible.

So yes when it comes to sci-fi TV shows:

Babylon 5 (1994-1998)

Foundation (2021 - ???)

Everything between 1998 and 2021 is some noise, though "The Expanse" is decent enough for entertainment.

Holy crap...

Makes me so hopeful/optimistic when I see such excellent and (subtly somehow) innovative, high quality work. There is something innovative about it but I cannot put my finger on what it is yet. It used to be like that all the time in the 90s, except it wasn´t subtle I guess.
August 20, 2023 at 09:35
cubic » Leo Moon
Yeah.. you´ve some real good points, and excuse me - it´s obviously a genre I´ve poured a lot of thought in, and I´m little obsessive about, so I´ve a tendency to talk people´s ears off when it comes to it.

"I have never seen Babylon 5. I will have to give it a go sometime."

There is 2020 remaster of the series. First season mendears and gets even tedious towards the end, but it´s setting up the stage for the next seasons. After the setup it´s on.. and it´s just incredible what Strazynsky has done.

The Series start with a pilot film (The Gathering) so that´s the proper watch order

It´s where the first public space use of the word "interweb" can be found, though it´s origin is probably few months at least earlier on UseNet.. goes to show how pioneering the show was in so many aspects - the first one with a wide story arc, though the mainstream tries to impose that "The Sopranos" was the first - no, it´s not, but B5 isn´t as useful for clickbaity articles aimed at college students..

The Series actually are rebooted starting this month, we´ll see if the whole thing is still viable..

My fav 2 quotes:

"To live on as we have is to leave behind joy, and love, and companionship, because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash. Only those whose lives are brief can imagine that love is eternal. You should embrace that remarkable illusion."

"You can´t turn away from death simply because you´re afraid of what might happen without you. That´s not enough! You´re not embracing life. You´re fleeing death. And so you´re caught in between, unable to go forward or backward. Your friends need what you can be when you are no longer afraid, when you know who you are and why you are and what you want, when you are no longer looking for reasons to live, but can simply be.

You must let go. Surrender yourself to death. The death of flesh, the death of fear. Step into the abyss, and let go.

It´s easy to find something worth dying for. Do you have anything worth living for?"

Yeah.. there is a reason I rewatch it every few years.
August 20, 2023 at 08:59
(Aquarius) Leo Moon
Hard science fiction doesn’t always have the best character development.

It’s more about the ideas.

Those first 3 Foundation books were Asimov’s earliest works.

He got better with characters.

Bad book adaptations is nothing new.

I understand that modifications are often necessary but it can get out of hand.

I have never seen Babylon 5. I will have to give it a go sometime.
August 20, 2023 at 08:46
cubic » Leo Moon
"Centralized and concentrated power, in an individual or organization, has always been my greatest fear."

I think it´s natural for human beings to try and gain maximum power and then defend it.. so over time this does lead to concentration of power in an individual or an organization. and the whole West+Democracy is setup as having checks and balances against allowing the possibility of that occuring. Like you´re allowed, theoretically at least to criticize the government, to vote etc.

It´s not that every absolute ruler is bad - clearly some are good.. it´s that it takes 1 wrong guy in the wrong position with absolute power to undo all the progress and throw society into chaos. Biden is the case in point.. economy going to crap, everyone having to pay more for basics, and this affecting everything else in society negatively.
August 20, 2023 at 07:27
cubic » Leo Moon
"I will probably just read the books again."

Sounds good right?

I picked one (I forgot which one) about 2 years ago just to check and see if I find them so great and really it wasn´t all that as I remember it. Something simplistic about it, lol.

I think one thing I can claim he wasn´t so great at character building but I was ok with that when younger, esp. since people tended to annoy me big time and I had enough socialization IRL.

I mean.. we can go and list the reasons - age, culture progressing, everything is now incredibly geeky even nerdy compared to the 90s when I read them - even plebeians know how to turn computers on, know how to login to facebook/instagram etc. The progress is breathtaking.

ANyway.. bruh I suggest you really give it a shot - like just a few episodes. I don´t think it´s that bad.. it´s not inauthentic to the original but it IS the story of the foundation in general. Understand you´re talking with one of the most choosy people you ever met when it comes to anything art..

If they keep going like this this could take spectacular 2nd place after Babylon 5! They showed willingness to improve after S1 - BSG just kept going and getting kinda worse for 5 seasons at least in my view.

No need to be purist.. not sure any movie made enough justice to any book, and we´re talkin about Foundation and Empire one of the biggest sci-fi works.. I know it deserves only perfection but at this scale and given who funds it - I consider it getting more than expected. Big studios are extremely reluctant to invest into the dark, and implementing the whole thing as it should would be a shot in the dark. Not happening.. not unless Pluto goes out of Cap IMO.

I just think it´s more than good entertainment, and certainly way better than wasting one´s life on BSG. I know I´m not rewatching that one.. I know I´m rewatching the Foundation at some point, even if they stop improving and just keep going like that.

The Expanse for instance is probably one of the best, if not the best (in terms of production) sci-fi TV show ever made, and most overall faithful to the sci-fi genre especially aesthethically, you can even have strong reminders of StarCraft in it. Strikes a balance between relative sterility (heavy word but can´t think of another right now) and organic-ness. Emotionally-psychologically though? God knows it lacks impact.. it´s good, I don´t regret watching it, but until this thread I forgot about it existing.

The Foundation does not have this problem I think.
August 20, 2023 at 07:17
(Aquarius) Leo Moon » cubic
I can relate to this.

“It´s funny as a kid my biggest fear was always meeting someone like The Mule.. ….maybe it´s just universal enough - I mean if someone can read minds effortessly then you dont´ have much left to defend yourself with ….”

Centralized and concentrated power, in an individual or organization, has always been my greatest fear.

I fear it for myself personally but also for all people.

I will probably just read the books again.
August 19, 2023 at 12:48
(Taurus) Boyan » cubic
I agree with this whole assessment.
Especially about alphabet mafia.

But miracles comes to those who believe 😇
August 19, 2023 at 12:48
cubic » Leo Moon
"Does this one follow the books?"

Well.. at this point I´ve given up on movie adaptations following anything.

This one follows even less than average, but it does follow the general plot. General... so if you´re looking for adherence you´ll only be unhappy, so I suggest to not expect it. But it´s about the psychohistory, Harri Seldon is more present than in the Books which is great, and there are things that are likeable that are secondary in the books..

They´ve done what they thought has to be done to reach general audience about some things, so..

Yes "The Mule" was the peak experience of the series. I can´t wait for it to commence, it´s building up towards it on S2, and they are doing good job at it.

It´s funny as a kid my biggest fear was always meeting someone like The Mule.. before reading The Foundation. Weird as heck.. it probably means such people do exist or will exist. :61: maybe it´s just universal enough - I mean if someone can read minds effortessly then you dont´ have much left to defend yourself with so..

I would recommend it, but only if you manage to be more open minded than usual. They´ve not butchered it.. they´ve transformed it.. :61:

On the other hand I can see how I could be too enthusiastic about it since when it comes to high quality sci-fi the situation is like... B5 mid-late 90s.. The Matrix late 90s.. Gravity (2013) Interstellar (2014).. The Expanse (so-so) 2019 or sth, and The Foundation (2021)

So it´s akin to a long walk in the desert then being offered a some water once in a while - and you go so happy over it. so objectivity might be a bit lost.

The thing is both The Foundation and The Expanse share this fear of taking creative risk and going truly wild, especially THe Expanse. Which is in a way the quite the classical elements all in one combined. It´s good but it´s like even and "just good" like perfectly balanced dish that doesn´t hit hard enough...

So I do thin it has to do with Pluto in Cap forcing people to watch the bottom line extra much and making sur they are making a sellable product and thus end up being more standartized. Thankfully S3/4 will be filmed during Pluto in Aqua which is on tops upward and more expansive than Pluto in Cap which is downward and doens´t truly support epicness and scale..

I WOULD readily suggest watching it, despite it´s many issues it´s good too many enjoyable and intersting things going on for it as a whole, and S2 starts extremely promising though again not without issues. Thus far it´s somewhat on par with how atrociously B5 started, but tbh B5 had a great ability to maintain and build mystery and awe.. this one is more like - I´m scanning to see how well they are going to manage to employ techniques to make me immerse myself in their product... lol is how I perceive/think most of the time while watching.

The Seldon plot is good

The Empire/Emperors (see the pluto in cap focus? lol) plot is exceptional and if the rest was as well made, we´d have had a masterpiece in our hands but it wasn´t meant to be..

What I appreciate is very much the raw exposur of real politik and scheming/machinations of the highest classes (political, religious-indocrinating) in society.. this is how I see the world as well generally..
August 19, 2023 at 12:39
(Aquarius) Leo Moon
I like Asimov’s Foundation stories but I have been so disappointed in adaptations that I haven’t bothered with watching any for awhile.

Does this one follow the books?

“The Mule” was the best story to me.
August 19, 2023 at 12:36
cubic » Boyan
I rewatched some of S1.. since it´s been years, goddamn.. It´s like the producers bet everything on Pace, Harris, Mann, that finnish Demerzel actress, maybe a few other decent ones, and then gave up or went cheap for the rest of the casting just some rando B class people who are for the first time on big screen or something.

Yeah I nevr spoke about the LBTQ but it´s like this sacrifice every movie has to make in order to be on the scrren that´s why.

But the worst is that other black girl with the crappy haircut. Just the haircut is so annoying to stare at like yeah we get it you wanna give Butch Lesbian vibes to curry favour with the LBTG Gods.

She can´t act for shit either..

It does seem they´ve got them in better shape for S2, and S2 the quality isn´t so unequal but after watching S1 is difficult to expect miracles indeed.
August 19, 2023 at 08:13
(Taurus) Boyan » cubic
Just bad script I would say.
August 18, 2023 at 21:18
cubic » Boyan
Well the Emperors def stole S1, you see that being the case with S2 as well? Read the books btw? I’m curious if the show makes sense for the people who have not read the books. Sometimes I wonder if it comes off as mediocre to them…

But yeah nice catch and sigh that gap is huge not sure if its a gigantic mistake or they are trying to accomplish something
August 18, 2023 at 20:09
(Taurus) Boyan
There is deep intellectual gap between Emperor´s lines and others.
Like two different series.
August 18, 2023 at 02:59
(Taurus) » cubic
System message: Post has been written by user theorigin27, who already deleted profile on this website:
same guy who thinks the bible is fake watching tv shows? cant make it up

you really are sommething special you know that, i know god has a plan for you, feel free to delete this because im done extending my services to you, you better pray now
August 18, 2023 at 02:43
cubic » rohini moon
"I felt the same way about John Terlesky in some 80´s movie where he played a rapist."

Hahaha, you know, I had more than a good chuckle reading this.

"His moon hits my Mars/ASC, and my Moon hits his Sun..."

Yeah, Moon/Sun connections can be real good stuff. I know some astrologers like to discount them to balance out people tending to think that Moon-Sun is the only thing to look after.

I see now they´ve corrected her chart a bit - from 16 Moon to 17. Eros, I have at 16 Leo, Mars at 17 Leo. So I forgot indeed the Mars thing also. It´s probably that primarily, actually. Next, I saw she has Venus on 11 Sag, while I´ve Uranus on 14 Sag. I know what happens with this - this freedom thing in all aspects of life!

Haha, half the time my mind schemes on the downlow how to get her IRL. Like I have to have her. I know I can do it if I set my mind to it... this stuff is easy... I´ve done similar enough things before, I tell myself. I can do it again, but I hope I don´t feel like doing it.

Yeah, and it is so. Once out of sight she is out of mind also, which is surprising but welcome.
August 17, 2023 at 20:31
(Virgo) rohini moon » cubic
" something about her just totally awakens voracious possessive impulses, and she is on the screen most of the time. "

I felt the same way about John Terlesky in some 80´s movie where he played a rapist. I swooned like a 13 yr old. His moon hits my Mars/ASC and my Moon hits his Sun.. lots of hittin´ goin on there.. anywho nowadays he looks like your local real estate agent.
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August 17, 2023 at 18:50
My real issue with the show remains the level of attractiveness and relatedness/familiarity I find in Lou Llobell, but goddamn something about her just totally awakens voracious possessive impulses, and she is on the screen most of the time. It´s like this small time constant torture.. don´t recall having it with anyone on screen like that. Prob cause her Moon is exact my Eros right.. what else could it be! Fuck. Maybe she is just one of those consensus-attractive people and nothing more to it.

I theorize that if this is how plebs feel about most of these ugly ass celebrities they are sold to worship (both male and female) then I can sorta understand the hype.. they really live in that tunnelized world

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