Traditional or modern house rulerships? - Discussions, questions

IleneTs » fishscales and are generation planets, what means that you´re part of the generation with and in and in .

The houses where these planets are in tells you where you develop as person and/or you contribute to evolution,depending on the aspects of the planets and the rulers of the houses.

Things often happen, even if you do not want, when one of the 3 is active.
People often say: ´Why does that have to happen to me?

Especially with Transit Pluto (if he goes retro) a situation can take 3 years.(yes the evolution goes slow as people don´t like to change if they didn´t choose for it))

Note:
It´s not always easy for me to explain such things in English, so if it´s not clear just let me know.

Btw I saw you are also born on 11 March.
In my opinion 11 people are self-taught are you also? I certainly am.

IleneTs » JSO I´m sorry but that´s not what I meant.

krushi » fishscales As to the literature, nothing comes to mind immediately, only some scattered statements. Apparently, the tendency to differentiate day/night context must be archaic and basic. It was natural for the epoch when astrology was inseparable from sky observations.

JSO » IleneTs It appears to me that you are using something what I’m using.

Aries is ruled by Pluto and retrograde Mars,
Scorpio by Mars and retrograde Pluto,
Capricorn by Saturn and retrograde Uranus and
Aquarius by Uranus and retrograge Saturn.

The only thing I noticed, sometimes in progressions for some reason the Mars is acting instead of Pluto! This might be explained by Ephemeris accuracy as Pluto is very slow and it is harder to detect when retrograde motion starts and ends.

fishscales » IleneTs Interesting.

When you say evolution, do you mean evolution of the individual or of humanity as a whole?

Given the context, I take it you mean evolution of the individual...???...

IleneTs I use both.

The old rulers Mars for Scorpio , Saturn for Aquarius and Jupiter for Pisces say much about your personal behavior, while Pluto Uranus and Neptune are generation planets and therefore more involved with the evolution, which absolutely want to manifest.

But for the basic I like also to watch a classical horoscope with only planets till Saturnus.

fishscales » krushi I really need to brush up on my diurnal/nocturnal knowledge.

Any good literature you could recommend?

fishscales » Olenna "... not exactly friendly but not too bad."

That´s pretty much how I feel about the entire Saturn in Gemini placement. With all the things that can go wrong with Saturn, it´s "not too bad"... lol

Astro-Seek.com » krushi System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Yeah i know about planetary friendships and enmity. Mercury tries to rush Saturn and Saturn slows down Mercury if they`re in bad aspects thou, not exactly friendly but not too bad.

krushi » Olenna Well, Saturn has nothing common with Gemini only if we assume that it rules just Capricorn. But its also rules Aquarius and is exalted in Libra. Capricorn reveals Saturn´s nocturnal, earthly nature, while Aquarius its diurnal, airy nature.

In some classic writings (like Lilly´s) we find a concept of "planetary friendship and enmity", where Saturn and Mercury are considered friends. That´s why I join with opinion of DManos that Saturn doesn´t feel bad in Gemini.

Astro-Seek.com » fishscales System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I enjoyed the conversation myself. Glad it helped

fishscales » Olenna "Saturn can`t focus on its goals in Gemini, It becomes a bit frustrating for the person to get things done in a classic saturnian way."

This is definitely something I can relate to.

As for everything else, thank you for sharing your knowledge and perspectives.

To me, a good conversation is always one that leaves me with different perspectives to think about..

Astro-Seek.com » fishscales System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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Astrology is so multilayered it`s practically impossible to reach a conclusion that`s an absolute fact. As to Saturn in Gemini your opinion is valid because Mercury and Saturn are not enemies per say. Gemini is a very neutral sign. The areas of life governed by Saturn are not so well put together, Saturn can`t focus on its goals in Gemini, It becomes a bit frustrating for the person to get things done in a classic saturnian way. The aspects that Saturn makes can help or make things worse in this situation. You cannot separate the planet from the sign or house, because it`s like cutting off parts of your body and still expect to perform tasks as if nothing`s wrong. These go together like puzzle pieces to understand the whole. The aspects play an important role in making different judgements on how that planet will act in a particular sign. It either gets help or it`s making things worse.

fishscales » Olenna "First of i`m sorry if it came across as insulting, not my intention"

No no I did not take it that way all all! (That´s why I wrote what I wrote in my initial response.)

Besides, we are having a serious scientific discussion which is no place to take things personally..

Yes, I agree that the notion of the sign the planet rules and its relationship to the sign the planet is in should be taken into account in assessing how well a planet functions in a certain sign.

However, I´ve noticed this rule seems to work better in some cases than in others.

For example, Capricorn and Pisces are sextile eachother, but I´ve always looked at Saturn in Pisces as an awkward, difficult placement because the principles of the planet and sign are in direct opposition to each other.

In the case of Saturn in Gemini, while I agree that Capricorn and Gemini (as signs) have nothing in common with each other (they are inconjunct each other in the zodiac), the principles of Saturn and Gemini seem to merge together fairly well.

I guess what I´m trying to say is that I view a planet and sign as two different things, regardless of rulerships or association.

For example, Scorpio is Scorpio, and Pluto is Pluto. A Scorpio person is not necessarily going to be "Plutonian."

What do you think? ❓


I´m starting to think this conversation is more interesting than the original forum topic, BTW..

Astro-Seek.com » fishscales System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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First of i`m sorry if it came across as insulting, not my intention, i do not assume that your placements are bad, i do not have that kind of mentality. When i say that a planet is not happy in a particular sign i am refering to that planet`s ability to function to its best. When we`re talking about Saturn being in Gemini it does not function to the best of its ability. Also you have to look at what Capricorn and Gemini have in common? Nothing at all. These sign are naturally in a state of discomfort to each other created by the inconjunction that exist between them. That`s how you establish relationship between planet and sign. Also have to look at how the ruler of Saturn is doing, if there`s any aspects between them, what kind of aspects Saturn has, is it a day or night chart, etc. You apply this to Uranus in Libra too.

fishscales » krushi I hear you regarding minamalism krushi.. Not just in an astrological context but in the context of life itself.. As I´ve gotten older, I´ve really embraced the "less is more" philosophy and approach.

Getting back to strictly astrology, I personally believe that not ignoring the Trans-Saturnian planets is sound astrological strategy..

fishscales » Olenna Olenna,

This is off topic, but I am interested to know why you consider Saturn as not being happy in Gemini. I have always considered it a pretty good placement...I think that Saturn expresses itself pretty well through Gemini: it can tend to be a "grounding" influence on to the way the native thinks, and can make them capable of serious forms of communication.. Although sometimes too serious.. Lol. I see Saturn as functioning well in all the air signs--not as well in Gemini as compared to the other two, but still at a pretty high level.

Please understand I am not asking in a "how dare you insult my placements" kind of way (lol), just as someone who is interested in the astrological thinking of others?

I can understand the pitfalls of Uranus in Libra, to be sure... Lots of disruptions in partnerships, and often ones that nobody saw coming. I do think that Uranus functions well on a mental/consciousness level in Libra however, being that it is an air sign, and that Uranian electricity flows well and freely through the air.. ⚡

krushi Over the years I´m leaning toward minimalism. Most of the time the classic rulers paint an accurate picture. It doesn´t mean that I totally ignore the trans-saturnian planets, though.

Astro-Seek.com » fishscales System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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In your case Uranus is stronger. Saturn is not happy in Gemini at all lol, then again Uranus does not particularly like Libra either, but it`s strong in the 1st house.

fishscales » Olenna Thanks Olenna.

I tend to use both as well.

Aquarius rules my 5th and I have Uranus in the first conjunct ASC and Saturn in Gemini in the 8th.

I take alot of pleasure in creative things and creativity (whether mine or someone else´s), and at the same time, I consider deep and serious investigation into hidden things as a form of "play."

I have read about alot of astrologers who insist on using traditional rulerships only, and wondered where the people of this forum stood.

IMHO, if a sign has two rulers, it makes sense to use both of them in interpretation... but I am more than willing to hear arguments for either/or.

Astro-Seek.com System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
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I use both, but it depends very much on other factors, like how dominant Saturn and Uranus is in that person`s life. If i stick to one or the other and the person does not resonate with it then i have to let go of my idea of rulership. Of course if Saturn or Uranus is in Aquarius then it`s clear who runs the show there. I lean on Uranus more than Saturn as a ruler for Aquarius.