The 1 billion USD spirituality question - Discussions, questions

fishscales I think that the cornerstone of all religions--meditation--is the way to start distinguishing fantasy from reality.

The mind is the greatest hindrance to the experience of reality.

Meditation´s focus on the breath is specifically designed to take the mind out of the equation, thus opening the door...

srgeorgio It seems to me that the key to sanity after you have opened your mind to new possibilities is to not believe in anything 100% i.e. to the point of arrogance. Keeping your mind open constantly means you cannot believe in anything 100% because doing so automatically makes you closed-minded to possibilities outside of what you believe.

Whether you believe someone´s claims is just down to your judgement. You have to learn how to monitor your feelings as you watch them and hear them speak. If you get a creepy or odd subtle feeling then be sceptical. Heaven knows we can´t rely on "experts" to tell us what´s real these days.

Spung » Spung Lol, day 4 of 3min meditation a day:

oops, looks like I´ve been feeling a lot of ´compassion´ for people stuck in their illusions in order to feel better about myself not ´doing the deeds´. Seems like my Saturn squares issue. And Saturn squaring Pisces in the middle of my 1st house
Question is if I´ll feel compassion while doing the deeds.

This thing really works!

Neptunian Capricorn Yea, that´s why it´s important to engage in critical thinking.

I know people who believe some crazy things and it really boils down to how good you are, in questioning those ideas or beliefs.

Lonerose99 Here´s something I come back to again and again -
It could be that the dream is reality and what we think is reality is the dream!

Spung A few thoughts first, to make sure we´re talking about the same thing.

´It is my opinion that lots of participants in the spiritual communities, and people with interest in the matter deal with dissociative states, emotional traumas or other conditions or and possess powerful imaginations.´

People in which human communities don´t deal with that? We all have our traumas, we all deal with them in different ways, some better, some worse. You don´t need to be ´into spirituality´ to experience dissociative states, got the pandemic to prove that.


´Meaning, if they are fed ideas and beliefs that are deemed spiritual, they may integrate / absorb, them building an internal fantasy world, believing it´s what being spiritual is.´

Change ´spiritual´ to moral, ethical, empathic,´live saving´, beautiful, ugly, right, wrong and you get the same effect. It seems to be a condition we´re in, as a kind. We like to be told what to think, it´s easier, often, when on survival mode it´s the only way to go. And that vulnerable place gets most often abused, by those going for own agendas of all kinds. But that´s a topic on its own. But yes, we need to become that Saturn for ourselves.

And now the question how we define ´spirituality´ and ´being spiritual´. For me I think it´s about how we express in deeds, what we feel inside as a connection to Spirit, this higher thing, call it your own way*. Expressing that Source within into reality. That´s why I never called myself spiritual, lol, always doubting my own connection to that higher thing.
Making money on people who haven´t realized yet that they need to search within, I wouldn´t define as a spiritual thing. But that´s some people´s path anyway.

But I wouldn´t mix it into a herd thing. Spiritual communities or any communities for that matter tend to quickly put an idea of that connection/or any other idea/ in place of the real thing, and then we get us a golden calf situation going on, or spiritual bypassing.
Or ´that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good´ kind of case. Which brings us to Lucifer and Prometheus, all of a sudden, funny enough.

Don´t ideas and fantasies come from the same place, mind?
What´s the difference between an idea and a fantasy then?

I´d risk saying that fantasy can be the materia for describing, expressing the idea. Before it´s put into reality test. Some fantasies might not be literally real, but the ideas they describe can still work in reality. In other cases they won´t, depending on the quality of an idea or its accordance to the laws or reality. But, there is also the possibility that when you don´t have your own ideas or even fantasies to start with, you might end trying to live out other people´s fantasies, breaking your legs on it. But when you´re doing your deeds and turning your fantasy into reality, nobody who is not doing the same thing and for the same reasons, is able to say, if it´s real.

One might argue, that ideas are an expression of Logos, fantasies of the unconscious or Intuition. I somehow have the feeling that in the big picture, Intuition and Logos are the same thing, polarized expressions of the same thing. They need to be in balance to each other, so flow within can be achived. Otherwise they cannot find a common language, and that´s where illusions are being created, or fantasies.
Some people are more naturally aligned with the reason, others with intuition and they make their dots in a different way. Misabuse of both can be easily achived.

People with strong Saturn might have a natural ability or tendency to become their own authority early on, just like the ones with its weak placement might easily become their own worst enemy. But it can be trained, it makes one stronger when you do it.

Reality is to be described by science. When science attempts to describe the spiritual element, it becomes pseudoscience, its languages are not compatible, there are not enough connections made. /
That´s why I´d send scientists on magic trips, but that\´s my personal fantasy./

But that´s also the same reason why describing reality with spiritual terms often doesn´t work, they are describing different realities. I consider the spiritual one being best expressed by the language of symbols, which are often taken too literally, people forgot how to read symbols, on which levels. That´s when people start engaging in rituals they don´t understand and don´t have a meaning to them, since they don´t do the practice. Then they hide behind symbols and don´t take the responsibilty for their actions. So following any kind of outside ideology is not taking the responsibilty for becoming an own Saturn to oneself. Sometimes these outside ideas might bring some clues or language, or perspectives to describe what one is going through, but they are only a tool to overcome itself.

*I understand that ´God´ is most often used as a place holder for all the ´I don´t knows´. Some people are satisfied with not knowing and just believing, other have the need of exploring beyond the unknown and keep qestioning. And everybody is ok because we will never really know anyway. It doesn´t always need to be about being right, sometimes it can be about being at peace.


´There may or may not be at least some accessible, and yes \"easy\" clues, signs, body states.´

So who is here to define what is fantasy, and what is not? And I don´t mean the nice stories we enjoy telling us to feel better about ourselves, which are delusional fantasies inded.

It so easily can turn into one of those conversations when people look at the light coming through window of a church and they argue about which colour the light is. Not realizing that they are looking at the light coming from a different colour glasses. And forgetting that they are standing inside a church in the first place.

Enough, although I lost some thoughts on the way! So these might be loose and deranged but here they are

astrolizard your brain is what defines ur reality. when your brain is physically impacted, your experiences will alter. thinking itself alters your brain physically. people who are delusional/wrong about anything have some sort of cognitive lapse/dysfunction related to the physicality of the brain. you influence your brain by movement of your cranial and body muscles that shift cranial bones that affect how your brain processes opening or closing it in different ways.
you can lose something in your perception that alters your sense of reality. this can open another part of your mind, and you may feel enlightened, but it may be changing from 1 flawed perception to another. you may feel like you realize harsh truths due to lacking information/perception that would give more context changing the previous fundamentally. you are made of spiritual and material. in that sense everyone is a zombie struggling between life and death

i dont think it matters if u were a pharaoh in your past life or you now are experiencing what it´s like to be one. you still get the same lesson < whose interpretation may be subject to your bias.

rini chandra » TJTJTJ "This is why we have something called "religion"."

Agreed. 100%

tomdos The answer is way too simple for our taste.

Spirituality is not a toy. It is something you either live fully, or don´t. If you do, then all the life and world gains a spiritual subtext, essence. Ordinary life and everything in it, your darkest corners will abide by spirituality. Then any kind of fantasy has a substance and a reason.
If you don´t, if you play a game where some things in your life are spiritual while some things are not, you will sooner or later fall for your own fantasies. Become more or less dillusional. Then spirituality is just a toy, an enjoyment, a refreshemnt, a diversification. And fantasies will consume your heart and mind.

TJTJTJ I think many will boo or simply get boiling and want me dead any moment now (it feels like that), and surely disagree and I would be just some idiot or a fanatic, but the answer to this question: This is why we have something called "religion".

risu Love that question. I feel like it´s learning to discern what´s coming from your mind or ego, and what´s coming truthfully from your heart. I´m constantly trying to see my ego objectively, trying to see where it might be tricking me.

I think the basis of ascending or progressing is all about how much love you are holding. So if someone´s going around telling everyone how they were a Pharaoh, I think they´re not quite as progressed as they think they are. A spiritual master wouldn´t go round telling everyone how they´re above others, they would know that others are their equals, all cut from the same cloth, just as powerful and important as themselves.

So I guess what I´d advise, is to look to see if you´re creating more separation between yourself and others, or more unity and love with others, in any kind of situation where you´re unsure if it´s coming from your head or your heart.

I know I´m progressing when I am able to hold love for people who trigger me in some way or another, because I must face and heal my own wounds to do so.

s81 Spirituality is a Neptune/Piscis thing, trying to rationalize it a-la-Mercury/Virgo is not going to work I´m affraid. It´s something more to live/enjoy than to analyze/think about it, and that´s because it´s a foggy moving target that shape-shifts as soon as you think you got it. Some physicists would add that it is just like reality hah