Whole, Porfyry, Alcabitius...

May 18, 2022 at 02:47 (UT/GMT)
(Leo) TJShemaly
Whole, Porfyry, Alcabitius...
Hello everyone,
In my struggle to understand and study the three classical major bodies: Hyleg, Alcocoden, and Almuten, I´ve encountered a problem that I can´t think of or decide how to go around. So, I´m asking this for guidance if possible from people who worked with the classics.

My problem is that, I´ve always used the Whole Sign system (for both, Hellenistic, and Vedic of course) and when I started reading about the 3 points mentioned above, I initially worked and examined my chart in Whole Sign. However, it turned out that there might be a critical difference in the final result once I change the house system. I read in some texts that Dorotheus and Ptolemy could have used Porfyry specifically (though it is debatable it seems in the case of Ptolemy). Meanwhile, Al-Qabisi (Alcabitius) who is another classical resource for discussing such points, most probably used Alcabitius house system. Visually, Porfyry and Alcabitius on my chart are quite close, but the main issue here is that some planets (mainly my sun) is less than 5 degrees away from the cusp of 3rd house in both systems and that changes the whole consideration for the sun to be a hyleg for example (because in such systems it would be considered in 3rd house even though by calculation it is in the 2nd, and that makes it in cadent, and hence can´t be hyleg). Such rules are not there as far as I remember in whole sign system and when I follow the instructions of, for example, Al-Qabisi, my sun would be well suited for being a hyleg; But not when I use Alcabitius house system.

So between these options, I´m in a dilemma how to proceed. In fact, I´m not sure which method to use for finding the hyleg but maybe I´m inclined to Al-Qabisi which is quite similar to Dorotheus but with minor changes or extras maybe. Al-Qabisi also is the latest from the three I believe.

Any insight? Much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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May 18, 2022 at 13:33
(Leo) TJShemaly » Wundi
Yeah, I think I probably should focus on learning the firdaria rather than the decennials. Probably even more useful than zodiacal releasing?
May 18, 2022 at 09:58
(Virgo) Wundi » TJShemaly
I dont use Deccenials, but if i would use them, i would use the Light Sect as the starting point, as we do for Firdaria calculations.
May 18, 2022 at 08:38
(Leo) TJShemaly » Wundi
So let´s say for a person whose Hyleg is the ascendant, how would they use that as an apheta to check the decennials for example? Lord of the ascendant?
May 18, 2022 at 08:37
(Leo) TJShemaly » Wundi
Yes, I´m always attracted to believe that the sun is a hyleg (and an apheta before that) specially that it is in succedent house, after moon.
I think now I would need to test and check back at some transits for malefics over this point to see if anything specific happened on these occasions (if I remember any!)
May 18, 2022 at 08:36
(Virgo) Wundi » Wundi
//In some resources they equate the hyleg with the apheta but seems this is a wrong conception.//

yes i know but i tend to agree with them.
May 18, 2022 at 08:26
(Virgo) Wundi » TJShemaly
i added some thoughts (edited my previous post)
May 18, 2022 at 08:24
(Leo) TJShemaly » Wundi
If my considerations are right then, I guess that would be the ascendant then? (according to Dorotheus).

In some resources they equate the hyleg with the apheta but seems this is a wrong conception. I´m trying to see the decennia here on astro-seek but there is no "ascendant" in the list of aphetas (that puts me in another cycle altogether I guess)
May 18, 2022 at 08:03
(Virgo) Wundi » TJShemaly
I looked at the chart, and i think in your case yes, i dont see a risk. For me it could be also the Part of Fortune because is in the 1st house if we trust Dorotheus, and 1st house is a hylegical place and i have tested this and have seen that in many bad periods of my life this point was beaten by malefics. Your is in 10th house, but something tells me intuitively that this could not be your hyleg, because 10th house does not say nothing to me for these hyleg matters, besides your Sun is in domicile and you must prefer this.
May 18, 2022 at 07:46
(Leo) TJShemaly » Wundi
Thanks for the insight!
So... you suggest I just proceed with Whole Sign when checking for the Hyleg and Alcocoden (and use Dorotheus)? Did you experience with it?
May 18, 2022 at 07:41
(Virgo) Wundi
Hello. Dorotheus used Whole signs. 5 orb degrees does not matter using Whole, my heretic point of view is that this 5 degree rule is mistake using also any house system. I had the same problem with you testing different house systems, but there is no solution, all depends on the house system you risk to use. Using Whole you face also a problem with some Lots, because typically there are not cusps in Whole (in such cases use Porphyry). Anyway overestimating the houses is always the biggest trap in astrology, but we need them, otherwise fatalistic predictions are impossible and Astrology becomes Psyhology.
May 18, 2022 at 07:22
(Leo) TJShemaly » Catch-22
Insight whether I need to find the Hyleg in a specific system or is it OK to proceed with Whole Sign system - it would be nice if someone who worked it out for some time and tested it on chart would tell their experience as well
May 18, 2022 at 07:04
(Aquarius) Catch-22
Can you rephrase your question? I read it 3x and I still don´t get it.

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