Theories and Ideas about Astrology! Let´s talk - Discussions, questions

AtropaxBelladonna » Del65 I explored that as a possibility as well, but Lilith isn´t even an astroid. Its full name is Black Moon Lilith. Its a calculatory point, like the Vertex (it moves fast because the asc determines its placement), or The Part of Fotune I believe it has something to do with the dark side of the moon?

I came to see Ceres as the ruler of Virgo, and the 6th House. Hygeia´s placement meanings are what I direct people to. (Ceres is also the Goddess Demeter)

Del65 » AtropaxBelladonna You mention Virgo´s true ruling planet, and I just so happen to be looking into this of late. The idea of Vulcan as Virgo´s ruler has pedigree, and the “planet of thunder” sounds cool and everything... but enough male gods representing female signs already! Besides, aren´t we tired of waiting for this guy? He´s proving as elusive as Atlantis, Bigfoot, et al.

I propose LILITH as Virgo´s true ruler (the asteroid, I guess -- but she deserves to be honoured with a proper planetary body), and here´s why:

They´re both women.

They both have wings.

Their background stories are very similar: Lilith left an abusive marriage and (propagandic demonisations aside) went off and had a better life elsewhere; ´Virgo´/Astraea became disappointed with the “world of men” and moved to heaven.

So in the words of that guy in John Lennon´s garden, it all fits.

Lilith is not bitter and angry by nature – she is healthy and normal (wholesome, indeed); it is the WORLD which is sick and twisted.

Apparently Ceres is being officially proposed as Virgo´s true ruler, but I don´t agree with this option. Ceres´ symbolism brings no new energy; it doesn´t make a statement; it´s boring (with all due respect to Ceres). Certain authoritative elements might want to keep the sign at this level, but the mere workaday drudge with a well-stocked medicine cabinet is caterpillar Virgo, not butterfly Virgo... remembering that any assignation of a new ruler is a value re the human collective too.

AtropaxBelladonna » ancient_astrology I´m plenty familiar with traditional and "modern" rulerships, there´s information about it literally everywhere beyond "horoscopes". Pert near everyone who has an account on here is familiar with rulerships. You did an exhausting amount of pointless explaining, so what exactly is your point....? That there´s no reason to speculate rulerships? Since irrelentvently *we know how it started*?


I am also not the only person who questions the rulership of Virgo and Libra. Frankly, it makes very little sense in the first place. But the absolute last thing any of them need is another, amongst millions more explanations of the exact same thing.

ancient_astrology There is really no reason to speculate on this, since a lot is known about the beginnings of western astrology. Robert Schmidt makes a strong case for how Babylonian and Egyptian astrology was gathered up in the Hellenistic world and then a new astrology was created using Plato´s Timaeus as the cosmological foundation.

Nonetheless, we know HOW the rulerships were created and it also explains a lot about the meaning of aspects and the meaning of the planets. The foundational image of western astrology is the Tema Mundi, which I have attached below. I have described it in greater detail in another thread, but I shall do so in a cursory manner here. Here you will see the Moon in the sign of Cancer in the 1st house and Sun in Leo in the 2nd. So the two luminaries are the center and they occur at the time of largest brightness in the northern hemisphere. But why is the Moon in the 1st? Because the Moon is the intermediary between the material world and the spirit world, due to her being the orb closest to the Earth. From there we see the planets span out in order. Mercury occupies the two houses/signs adjacent to the Sun and Moon. Mercury in Gemini, forms a sextile with the Sun, and in Virgo, he forms a sextile with the Moon. The dual nature of mercury is suggested here. On the one hand, he is in aversion to the ascendant in Gemini, on the other hand, he is seen by the Ascendant in Virgo. After Mercury, we see on either side Venus in Libra, and Venus in Taurus. Venus forms a sextile to the Sun in Libra and a sextile to the Moon in Taurus. This is why the sextile is associated with Venus. Next is Mars in Scorpio and Mars in Aries. Here we see that Mars, when he is in Scorpio forms a square to the Sun and when in Aries forms a square with the Moon. And so it is that the square is most associated with Mars. Then we see that Saturn is in Aquarius and opposite the Sun and in Capricorn is opposite the Moon. Hence, the fact that the opposition is associated with Saturn.

Now there is much, much more implicit in the thema mundi and you could actually learn a lot by studying it, but I will leave that for another time.

My point is that this is the foundation of planetary rulership among other things. Alan Leo and the idiots in the Theosophical Society knew nothing about the roots of astrology when they overthrew the tradition in the late 19th and early 20th century. The modern planets are invisible and have no rulerships, as far as I am concerned, as they do not fit into this schema. The naming of the modern rulerships was completely arbitrary, executed by people who knew nothing about the system that had been in place for 2000 years.

Rosincvist » AtropaxBelladonna There is always some dingleberry who has nothing better to do than to belittle the interests of others; Astrology and Astronomy did a name-swap in European history, could happen again!

Graham » IceSickle17 Yes. Conditioning is indeed not always detrimental. But, even if our conditioned views and beliefs are "good", failing to question them will always be detrimental.

For example, my parents conditioned me to "always put the needs of others before our own" ... which I never questioned until the age of 40, after coming close to a having a physical (and psychological) breakdown that would have left me incapable of addressing the needs of anyone (including myself).

That was the point in life at which I finally learned how to delegate to others ... enabling them to grow/increase their skills, and me to modify my conditioned belief to "always put first the greatest need of the group, and recognise that the greatest need of a group is for it´s leader to remain physically and psychologically healthy".

IceSickle17 » Graham Really enjoyed this reply. Well summarized. Saturn childhood conditioning can be so powerful and the realization of being conditioned is quite an awakening experience in itself. Maybe a well aspected Saturn can make this process go more smoothly (or perhaps Cap or Aqua in domicile).

And honestly, conditioning isn´t always detrimental. Teaching a child a good foundation of respect, empathy,morals goes along way and hopefully a path one never veers from.

AtropaxBelladonna » InfiniteVoyageXIII&VII Can you tell me what makes it a science?

Nos sonhadores no .... astrology is like meteorology .... also not exact but yet people need it ... infact meteorology is looking at what results astrology has .... if the sun has "hick ups" .... how the moon stands pulling on anything with water inside ... the other planets act just like that but mutch mutch mutch more subtile since so far away... + how mutch mass they have gives them different nuances ... or pluto beeing a twin planet mini system giving everything wich is touched by its gravity a wobble

AtropaxBelladonna » InfiniteVoyageXIII&VII But are the basics not just the beginning? Like another form of divination, tarot, you learn the basics, but after you know the basics... you use your intuition, and requires it to give the best reading you can give. I don´t nessessarily think it should have to be individual either.

Graham » AtropaxBelladonna During childhood and adolescence, we are influenced by the views and beliefs of our parents and other figures of authority ... such as respected teachers we encounter through the education system..

That influence conditions the way we think as (young) adults... And this is known as Saturn conditioning.

As adults, we then question those conditioned beliefs and formulate our own views and beliefs. That is known as self-development. ... And self-development is the mechanism which enables to become mature adults - able to think for ourselves and follow our own beliefs.

InfiniteVoyageXIII&VII Astrology is a science but not natural science. It has some beliefs inside and we accept it as it is.

Modern astrology is product of 20th century capitalist conception. Modern Astrologists make effort to show Astrology is a natural science as physic, chemistry and biology but there is no actually necessary.

AtropaxBelladonna » Graham Can you elaborate what you mean by childhood conditioning of saturn?

Graham I agree with your theory ... and believe it is only a matter of time before new rulers will be assigned to the 9 zodiac signs which currently do not have them ... because (as Dane Rudhyar stated) "the Sun is also a Star" (in our Universe) rather than only the centre of our Solar System.

Each new ruler is also assigned as the "higher octave" of another planet - Uranus/Mercury : Neptune/Venus : Pluto/Mars. ... And my theory there is that the high octave planet is what it´s well-travelled lower octave planet becomes if the chart-owner moves beyond the childhood conditioning of his/her Saturn.

So ... in my opinion ... Uranus, Neptune and Pluto only behave as the respective rulers of Aquarius, Pisces and Scorpio if the chart-owner moves beyond his/her childhood conditioning. (Otherwise Saturn, Jupiter and Mars remain the dominant rulers.)

MONA_ROZA Merhaba,
Sadece kendi araştırmalarıma göre erkeğin ilişkilerinde aşkta ..

Derin aşk
Masalsı aşk
Saplantılı,hastalıklı aşık
Ölümüne sevmek
Ya benimsin ya toprağın
Gibi gibi şeylere meyilli olan (açılardan anlamam)
Dikkat edilmesi gereken lilith ev yerleşimi
Özellikle 7.3. Ev ve 9.12. Evlerdir.
Yani kisaca.
Bir kadını sevgi adı altinda öldürmek...