Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

February 22, 2022 at 04:17 (UT/GMT)
(Taurus) Liberty&Unity
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
We all know the question. With that said, which came first...signs? Or planets? I often hear that you know everything about a sign based on position, element, gender, modality and most importantly the planet. HOWEVER if the signs came first and being the "fixed" and limited space that the planets travel through then maybe the signs take precedence? And if we are defined by planets, signs, houses and aspects maybe the planets are defined by signs?

Lordship or rulership gives a sense that the planets were able to build their houses however they could have been given stewardship or assigned to them.
Subtle yet possibly significant difference.

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February 22, 2022 at 21:44
(Pisces) 1janos » Liberty&Unity
In my humble opinion if you believe, that planets are influencing - by emitting some magic rays -, you, me and everyone else on the planet from distances of several hundred million and in the case of Pluto well over five billion kilometres away, there are two possibilities.

1. You misunderstand what astrology is about. That can be corrected by studying the topic in depth.

2. You can be diagnosed as a Paranoid Schizophrenic. That condition requires antipsychotics and your life is almost but ruined, by severe psychopathology.
Let us start with fundamental principles. That is the foundation we can build on.

Astrology is NOT based on cause and effect. Those concepts are valid in simple physics like mechanics.

Life is just a bit more complicated than that. I am sure you know that by now.

For instance, it may be worthwhile to remember, that statistically speaking 4-5 babies are born every second of time on planet Earth. That means about 270 a minute and 388000 per day. The actual accuracy and personal specificity of chart interpretation is put into perspective.

Astrology is not prescriptive; it is descriptive. It is based on the application of reasonably simple maths to a highly complex system of Symbology.

Nowadays with the available computing power - and good people like Petr who know how to use it -, it is possible to do these reasonably simple but labour intensive calculations with remarkable accuracy in seconds, by just about anyone with access to this site among others.

Whoever studies this worthy subject, must sooner or later move beyond the Cartesian philosophy of Rene Descartes and Newtonian science. The 1650s and the early 1700s are well and truly in the past.

Astrological Symbols represent the Sun and Moon, various planets, the Angles (Ascendant and Midheaven), various mathematical points in natal charts, their angular relationships based on geometry and their so-called movements (through astrological houses and transits, progressions) in time (as it goes by). These processes appear to coincide with certain personal qualities, life events etc. All this information can be used to describe people´s character, personal qualities and unfolding of life events - by a skilful interpreter -, with access to reference texts and detailed research of same.

These coincidences were referred to as Synchronicities by C G Jung the Swiss psychiatrist, who summarized his findings at the end of his life on the topic in the book: "Synchronicity, the Acausal Connecting Principle". Acausal or without cause. Please read the book for further in-depth clarification. Wolfgang Pauli joined Jung in studying the phenomenon, and let´s not forget Arthur Eddington´s quote:
"Something unknown is doing we don´t know what."
So, we are in an intelligent and educated company, from an intellectual point of view. You may or may not know, but both men were Noble laureates (Physics).

The thorough understanding of an astrological chart and therefore a person´s life is a very arduous undertaking. That effort can yield remarkably accurate and descriptive results, but for me - for example -, it takes about 100 hours of concentrated work.

So yes, I agree with you it is a very complex and old subject. However much progress has been made in the last few hundred years in the understanding of how some things work.
February 22, 2022 at 21:42
(Taurus) Rosincvist
The Heliocentric Chart may antedate the Geocentric Chart by a nanosecond, no time for the echo known as "houses"
The chart of someone in their first incarnation on Earth is of one lacking altogether in aspects; Pure unmolested planetary energy! :92:
February 22, 2022 at 17:41
(Taurus) Liberty&Unity » 1janos
It´s definitely is a philosophical debate. I like so far the synchronicity concept which is not really cause and effect. but what do I know?
February 22, 2022 at 17:33
(Taurus) Liberty&Unity » Leo_Ness
I agree with a lot that rationale, not everything but yes. it does seem that concept would be ideal that younger becomes stronger yet still subsequent to the former. love it
February 22, 2022 at 07:25
(Pisces) 1janos
I find it forever surprising, that most people entertain and even accept the idea, that planets in the Solar system emanate some kind of magic rays, that affect us, individuals, directly and determine our personal qualities and bring about events in our lives.

Astrology is not prescriptive.

It is descriptive.

There is no cause-and-effect relationship between planetary movements and our individual lives.

Your astrological chart is a two-dimensional representation of the Solar system as it "looked" from the place on Earth at the time of your birth. It is a kind of map, that only exists on the computer screen you´re looking at now. Or if you´re a bit old-fashioned, you have it printed out on a piece of paper.

The way Astrology works is quite different and not based on such Magical Thinking.
February 22, 2022 at 06:27
(Pisces) Leo_Ness
This is how I see it:

1st - fields - so Signs

2st - Planets that are created in specific fields. They are stronger but younger, meaning that they basically submit to fields (Signs) and not vice versa. Planets represents energy condensate originally formed in deep history of Cosmos, but their real position is now messed up somehow. Asteroid belt is not natural phenomenon it is the consequence of some past disaster, so something definitely went wrong there, at one point.

3rd - Houses - they are individual, so strongest to individuals but younger than Planets and Signs meaning that they submit to Planets and Signs. If 4th house represents personal emotion, heritage, roots... covered by sign Pisces (ruled by Neptune) it will be totally colored by empathy, intuition, secrets but what dynamic will be, it will be shown by position of the ruler. If Neptune is in 6th house (in this case) than personal inherited emotional patterns will be supported throughout everyday activities and job one is doing.


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