Almuten figuris calculation...

November 7, 2021 at 19:50 (UT/GMT)
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin'
Almuten figuris calculation...
Can anyone help me out?

Posts in topic

Sort posts:
February 11, 2022 at 09:59
(Virgo) Whitecat
Does anyone know how to see Dignity Almuten Scores at astro-seek? For example Almuten of Children, almuten of health, almuten of profession...
January 2, 2022 at 15:08
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
Yeah, I´m trying to remember in what search did it occur. I might have occurred as well in my search around ZR as to use Dodecatemoria for a specific analysis or transits. Not sure.

Both lots are used, fortune and spirit. Fortune is used to inspect about the health in general while spirit is for deeds and career (and I used to think it´s the opposite). Chris Brennan, a modern astrologer, added Lot of Eros to inspect about relationships. According to him, it did yield fine results.

For me, I´ve been playing around with all these three and even more. On Astro-Seek there is an Arabic Lots calculator wit a list of Lots. I´ve been using this to release for various Lots and trying to reflect on my life and understand how it works in terms of interpretations. So far, I don´t think I could catch it out.

If you can do some work with my natal chart, please do. I´m interested to see how it goes and how to interpret under various techniques.
January 2, 2022 at 14:15
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
Shoukran.

Well, the calculations were a bit bothersome to figure out. I´m also by no means urging you to calculate anything by hand; my goal, before replying again, was more to confirm that the calculations of Morinus were correct. They are - only occasionally extra points are added under "Phase scores". I haven´t figured out how to adjust the settings so that these will not be included as a standard (because the original Ibn Ezra formula did not include them) - but then one could of course just subtract these points oneself.

I haven´t done much more reading or research on the AF. But now that I know that I can use the Morinus reliably for this, using this freeware, I will probably be looking up charts of people, to compare, and see if it makes sense.

Oh, you remembered about the Dodecatemoria:)) I actually just very recently ordered a book with interpretations for each degree, so each duad or 2,5 degree divisions of each Zodiac sign. I haven´t received it yet, but if you are interested I can send you pictures of some chosen degrees in your chart (of your "big 3", or whatever). I think the book pertains more to the natal chart and the personality or some inner workings of the person. The other meanings of the !2th divisional chart I have not looked at further. But let´s see, soon, what the book has to tell..!

Zodiacal releasing, yes, from Hellenstic astrology... I am only familiar with the concept, of releasing, but I haven´t looked into it tbh. I might look into it in the future, as well as annual profections. For the Zodiacal releasing, what have you been using ? Is it the Lot of Fortune/POF, or also Lot of Spirit? I see also there is a Lot of Eros... Btw - I haven´t explored this site too much in terms of calculators available, but I just found out that on Astrodienst it´s possible under the "Extended chart selection" page to choose "Chart drawing style: Hellenestic". Then, the Lot of Fortune/Spirit/Eros will all be drawn in, and under it the Zodiacal release for all of the three are shown.

I´m not sure if it´s something that could be interesting for you but on the same page you can also choose "Chart drawing style: Arabic Points/Al-Biruni". It includes in the chart drawing what I suppose are the most commonly used Arabic parts. Well, I see my Part of Eros falls at a different degree of Scorpio than in the Hellenstic style one. (There are just so many things to explore in astrology, so it´s yet another thing that caught my interest but that I haven´t looked into)
January 1, 2022 at 22:42
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
"سنة جديدة سعيدة "
Same to you :)

Sorry for the late reply here too. I´ve been on and off with many things happening in my life.

I totally forgot about this topic to be honest. I need to sit and read it all over again beside the new links you´ve provided just now. I´ll try to find some time for this; My health had been shaky a bit lately with more issues at home. Thanks again.

On a side note, I think I´ve encountered another use for the Dodecatemoria. I just can´t remember where exactly. But maybe it was used in combination with Annual profection to reveal some more info about the coming year in a person´s life. I´ve been also focusing on Zodiacal Releasing which, as a concept, I understand, but I can´t get into the interpretive part. It seems to me that the annual profection makes sense more than ZR. To me at least.
January 1, 2022 at 20:07
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin'
سنة جديدة سعيدة

I know it is very late, my apologies... I did not forget about the topic - just started a new work and got busy with my final exams at the same time. So I didn´t really get down to work through and understand the calculations properly, as I wanted, until now.

I think I finally did understand how the AF is calculated as per Ibn Ezra. The problem was about how to score for essential dignities; I got confused with the triplicity ruler. If you should be interested: https://twtext.com/article/… Scrolling down you will a see a table with the heading "Chapter 16: Triplicity Lords". Using my own chart as an example Sun is in H12 so it is a day chart, and hence I need to award 4 points to the planet in the "Diurnal lord" row when applicable.

You can find the decant/face ruler and the term/bound ruler on Astrodienst, using Chaldean decans and Egyptian terms.

I went through our AF as how they were calculated in Morinus, and yes calculations should be correct, I mean according to how the method was proposed by Ezra. As before I checked your chart using both Placidus and the whole sign system. Using the whole sign system Sun comes in at 2nd place with 20 p.; if using Placidus Saturn takes the 2nd place with 18 p. (then Jupiter and Sun with both 17 p.) But yes - victor of your chart is Mars (31 p.) I do not have access to other softwares and haven´t calculated your AF in programs other than Morinus - as you see it is possible that the score of each planet might easily change, depending on the parameters, but I would assume your AF would still turn out as Mars with so many points.

This method, however, uses as mentioned the Chaldean decans and Egyptian terms. It is by essential dignities that your Mars has gained so many points (your Moon and its degree, for example, receives a total of 11 p. only by essential dignity). So, if you were to use different terms and decan you may end of with a bit different scores.

"Now, calculating all these points for AF or other concepts, what would be the final results we are seeking from all of that? Do we use it with some timing technique to predict? Or, watch out for it in transits? I really can´t make up my mind here."

I also wonder about that... https://www.renaissanceastrology.com/…
Here is one article only (scroll down), and some of it is a bit vague... Citing: There are additional magical uses of the almuten figuris. Picatrix notes that if you invoke a planet, "[y]our petition will be quickly fulfilled if the planet to which you make your petition is the lord of your nativity; without this, it will be harder for your petition to proceed to its proper conclusion." Picatrix Bk Iv. ch. 4.

But it seems - that you can ´tap´ into the powers of your AF and use it to advance in life. :37: I take it all with a grain of salt... I just find it interesting, but unfortunately I also do not know much about it. If I do read more about it in the future I´ll report back :97:
November 16, 2021 at 02:41
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
Good morning from here.

What you mentioned here is the thing I´m trying to learn and figure out.
D9, specifically, in Vedic astrology is one of the most important charts for Indian astrologers; So much that it is a routine to put it side by side to the natal chart to make a complete reading and it seems seldom an astrologer would not put it side by side. D9 is sought for many issues of life according to Vedic tradition (and not just marriage). There is a debate on whether the chart is "activated" at marriage, or at the age 30 or 35, or since birth. I think most astrologers who consider Vedic traditions in astrology consider it active since birth. D9 is also used to "judge" the power of the planets in the natal chart (e.g. debilitated Moon in natal, can be in its home in D9, hence we have "cancellation of debilitation"). These are just some aspects about such chart that I can think of right now.

There are other things that are checked between the two chart, like the lord of the first house in one chart in the other to assist in judgement and such. These things unfortunately, for the time being, are not quite understood by me.
November 15, 2021 at 21:27
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
haha it´s ok with the typos. I know my posts are full of them but I don´t quite bother right now (used to hehe).

Yes, in Western or Vedic astrology practices, planets in angular houses do have special importance. One astrologer put it as: If your chart is a tent, the angular houses are the pillars that put it up and make it stand, hence, any planet there is important because its effects manifest clearly.

All in all, with all these messy calculations, I´m personally trying to understand (and find) a proper timing technique. The Hellenistic annual profection seem so-so; It´s easy to use but I´m not sure of its efficiency yet. In Vedic they use the "Dashas" and that´s another story.

Now, calculating all these points for AF or other concepts, what would be the final results we are seeking from all of that? Do we use it with some timing technique to predict? Or, watch out for it in transits? I really can´t make up my mind here.

Well, it´s getting pretty late here - I´ll check tomorrow for any replies :)

God natt :)
November 15, 2021 at 21:20
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
:D We should start an astro-school :37:

"These karakas are always sought in the D1.
They are USED for deduction in divisional charts.
And notice that "karaka" in Vedic is a general term as well."

Aha, I see. I also heard that when using divisional charts one should look at the rulers in one chart and see how it is placed in the other. E.g. if you look at my Vedic D1 chart DC is Leo so ruler is Sun. Then to find out about the partner you look at how the Sun is placed in D9 or something?... I´m not sure - is there any sense in doing this with e.g. the Atmakaraka as well ?
November 15, 2021 at 21:12
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
Okay, I solved the problem with the POF now. I changed the standard settings to instead a different formula distinguishing between day and night births. Now your POF is in late Aries also there. Yet, your AF is still Mars, now scoring even higher with 33 points in total.

I also feel Saturn a lot... If I do the "Simple chart delineation by Walter Pullen" on Astrodienst my dominant planet is Neptune, but Saturn and Venus are in my top 3. My dominant sign there is Capricorn; chart signature is Cancer.

And I also do not feel only one planet. Though I can say I do not feel Sun or Jupiter very much. I actually feel Moon a lot also, even though my score for Moon is not very high at all. However, what is interesting, is that actually when a planet is placed in the angular houses it gains strength. The same is said to apply when a planet recevies a lot of aspects. Indeed, Moon is my most aspected planet with a total of 8 aspects formed (of which 5 are major). As my rising sign is in the Pisces-Cancer decan Moon becomes my chart co-ruler. Additionally, I am born on a Monday (Moon´s day) in the hour of the Moon..! And my Sun, Asc, Neptune and Pluto are all in the Cancer dwad.

Also I found out there is a concept of the *chart predominator* (to confuse us even more, heh). It was part of one astrologer´s AF algorithm. First, you decide whether the chart is a day or night chart. In a day chart the Sun is more important. But this depends on house location. If the Sun is in a cadent house (so house 9 or 12), you instead use the Moon. The Moon is then my chart predominator being placed in the angular house H7.

Interestingly, although Morinus states that Venus is my AF, Moon is the planet there with the second highest score.

There are a lot of such techniques that aim to determine the strenght of a planet. I´m very new to all of this and can´t really comment much on it. But I think it does make sense to look at things more in detail and relative to each other.

[Sorry I had a lot of typos and mistakes so I edited my reply.]
November 15, 2021 at 21:05
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
These karakas are always sought in the D1.
They are USED for deduction in divisional charts.
And notice that "karaka" in Vedic is a general term as well.

For example, the Karaka of the natal chart of any individual is the sun (because it represents the self).

Then, D9 divisional chart, its main Karaka is Venus, and typically Darakaraka which is found from D1 is checked here to gain more insight and information, according to the question being asked.

Atma and Amatya are both important in D10 I suppose, and also D10´s main Karaka is Saturn.

So, by studying the relationships between karakas and depending on the question being investigated, one can draw conclusions accordingly.

Unfortunately, I didn´t reach that level yet
November 15, 2021 at 20:55
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
I have heard about those before, I mean the Atmakaraka, Amatyakaraka, and Darakaraka. So Atmakaraka is my tropical D1 chart is Saturn as you say, and the Amatyakaraka either Rahu or Mercury. In which divisional charts to you look at these three ?
November 15, 2021 at 20:52
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
I just saw your posts. I checked with astro.com and my POF is like astro-seek´s - in Aries.

What planet I identify with the most? Well, I don´t know really. I´ve been going through astrology considering the whole chart altogether without focusing on a single planet; Like a bunch of Legos. But this said, I sometimes, and after learning the concept of Karakas, I do feel like Saturn has been a heavy load in my life. But all in all, I don´t think I can pick a specific planet in my chart and say this is the planet I click with the most
November 15, 2021 at 20:42
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
Good with that - I´ll be waiting for the results.
I´m still perplexed by the concepts in that page and I´m not sure what to do or to add what to what.

In comparison though, that Indian system to what I know has no subtraction and apparently all these old systems for calculating points do not include any subtraction for fall or detriment (like the calculation of the dominants available here on Aatro-Seek); They are mostly a build-up of points

In Indian or Vedic system, there is a branch of astrological school called Jaimini, which seems to have used and developed this concept of "dominant" planets but in a different way and used in various techniques (specially with divisional charts) and to know these planets one has to simply look at the degrees that each planet is occupying (regardless of sign of course) - the planet with highest number is called Atmakaraka (soul significator) and the second is Amatyakaraka (path significator) - these 2 are the most important, then the last one in the list or the lowest in degrees is called the Darakaraka (partner or mate significator). Those main 3 are prolly the most important and used quite often. And worth noting that they are only 7 (for the 7 classical planets) and some schools in Vedic astrology include Rahu and Ketu (North and South node) but the majority disagree with this approach because these are not real planets but mathematical points.

Under these, my karakas are:
1. Atmakaraka: Saturn.
2. Amatyakaraka: Sun.
3. Darakaraka: Moon.

And yours would be:
1. Atmakaraka: Saturn.
2. Amatyakaraka: Mercury.
3. Darakaraka: Mars.

(all in Tropical of course, though most Vedic practitioners would use Sidereal)
November 15, 2021 at 20:39
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
Hmm. Just out of curiosity, which planet(s) to you identify with the most ?

If one wants to calculate the AF manually one needs to also find the decans and terms/bounds for the planet. This can be done for example at astro.com ticking off "Chaldean decans" and "Egyptian terms" in the Extended chart selection. Only, I am having a bit of problems understanding this part. How to score the planets as according to terms (2 p.) and decans (1 p.) is alright, but I am getting a bit confused when to assign the 3, 4, and 5 points...

The thing with the AF also... You have to look at how it is placed and aspected in your natal chart. Mine for example is Venus. Venus in exalted in Pisces, and it is given extra strength by being conjunct the Asc I think. (If using the Whole sign system at least Venus is strong in H1.) You have Mars as your AF, which as you state is in detriment in Libra. But yes, some astrologers(?) online have reported that Morinus includes some ´extra steps´, which seem to be planet phases, that were not included in the original algorithm. Also, in your case, it seems the POF may not be correctly calculated (and the POF is of course very important, being one of the five determinants assigned).
November 15, 2021 at 20:29
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
Hmmm, how come Morinus show your POF in :176:, and Astro-seek :171: ?? I know there exist different formulas for day and night birth but... My POF is around 15° :178: here on Astro-seek as well as on Astrodient (astro.com) and in Morinus. What does Astrodienst give you, do you know ?

"On a side note, right now, I´m not sure what´s the difference between "dominant" planet and "Almuten" planet, as it seems they are both about the planet with the strongest position. Also, that website, in the first table, shows two planets, one is called "Dominant" and one is "Dominating". It seems, from the look of it, that "Dominant" is the one with the highest degrees in the chart (similar to Atmakaraka concept in Vedic) and "Dominating" is the planet that occupies the first house or house of ascendant maybe (at least this is how it shows with me)."

Atmakaraka is just the planet with the highest degree number... while the "Dominant" planet is the ruler of the house cusp belonging to a stellium, if present - in my case. And "Dominating" planet is the planet being closest to the MC. Actually, I have read something similar before... only then I read that *the planet that is highest in your chart* - which is not necessarily the same as the planet that is in closest proximity to your MC (e.g. in my case, including the transsaturnian planets, Uranus is closest to the MC, while Pluto is the highest one) - is given more strength.

Well... However you calculate the AF it is obviously much more complex than just deciding your chart ruler through the sign on your Asc, which planet is stronger or dominating by its distance to the MC, and so on. Personally I like it more; it seems more logical to me to instead *look at the whole chart* - which planets are stronger and weaker. I´m not saying the other concepts are invalid... or that the AF always takes primary importance... but I found the concept very interesting. It´s strange that so few people seem to know about it (I would say ´using it´, but I guess like me most people had never even heard about the technique). I just need to experiment a bit with calculations and then actually get them done and see what I think.
November 15, 2021 at 20:26
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
This is quite strange actually. Because my Mars is in Libra; its "detriment". I can relate to some things related to that position, like road rage (4th house is about properties including cars) - and I do really hate driving cars - and also the fatigue because Mars here is in Libra, the sign opposite to its home. I really don´t understand this concept even more right now :8:
November 15, 2021 at 20:10
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
I had a look at that website before I posted, I found it also difficult to comprehend and calculate :41:

If you should wish to calculate the AF manually you can use the info in my previous reply (there I have written down your planetary hours as well as your Syzygy placement as according to Morinus). The Morinus freeware seems to calculate things correctly - as mentioned, I am just not sure about the algorithm used.

Personally I am most interested in the algorithm proposed by Ibn Ezra. This one was explained in the link you posted. Morinus uses another one. Either of these two seem to not withdraw point for debilitation. According to one astrology guy, "The Scottish Astrologer", you should remove points whenever a planet is in detriment (5 p.) or fall (4 p.); if it´s peregrine you remove a total of 5 points. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch/…

There is also a method named as Almuten Porphyrius, which is again a bit different.

The Scottish Astrologer mentions that the AF is a very important planet in the natal chart, and that you should pay special attention to the transits as well. I will try now to calculate the AF manually, as proposed by astrologer Ibn Ezra. I´m having some minor difficulties, but I am getting help from someone soon. Then I will calculate them and we can see (and compare if they are different than what Morinus gives).
YouTube
YouTube
November 15, 2021 at 19:58
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
I now calculated your AF in Morinus. It shows the AF as :155: with a total score (essential + accidental dignities) of 26 points.

The lady of the day is :157: (7 p.), and lady of the hour :153: (6 p.). The calculations also used POF at 12°30´45 :176: and Syzygy 18°16´41 :175: (and of course your Sun, Moon, and Asc placements).

Do you resonate with Mars as the AF..? For me personally I resonate very much with Venus. I wonder also, though, what is the difference between the AF, chart ruler (as in Asc ruler, in the case it differs from the AF), dominating planet, and dominant planet; what is really the role of each as you ask? The website I linked to in my post clearly then has some mistakes in their tables or calculations. Regardless, I found some of the concepts there such as dominating vs. dominant planet intriguing.

Ashtakvarga or Astahgvarga, I have not heard mention of them. I guess it is something more for me to look into :97:

ETA: I calculated your AF using Placidus btw. But even using the Whole sign system your AF is still Mars, as your Mars is so strong.
November 15, 2021 at 16:49
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
I´ve found this website:
https://starsintheircourses.com/cal…

I´m not sure if you´ve encountered it already in your research yet. Honestly, I´ve read it several times but I still can´t quite get it clearly. Some terms are beyond my understanding.
November 15, 2021 at 02:58
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » Ways_of_Leavin'
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
Well, replying quickly to this as I have to prepare for my eye appointment.

I´m not sure about all these concepts yet but I checked the website you put here and put on my data to check. Well, the website has something off actually. My ascendant is way off. Planets position seem OK to me, but the part of fortune for me is in Aries, and this website shows its in Taurus. I´m not sure what is going on here but checking some other websites as I recall, didn´t give a result that is way off from the results of Astro-Seek. There is also an issue with the Sidereal time calculated by that website which is way different than the one calculated by Astro-Seek as well.

On a side note, right now, I´m not sure what´s the difference between "dominant" planet and "Almuten" planet, as it seems they are both about the planet with the strongest position. Also, that website, in the first table, shows two planets, one is called "Dominant" and one is "Dominating". It seems, from the look of it, that "Dominant" is the one with the highest degrees in the chart (similar to Atmakaraka concept in Vedic) and "Dominating" is the planet that occupies the first house or house of ascendant maybe (at least this is how it shows with me).

All in all, more reading required here but that website is sure off by some parameters.
This concept is similar to something called Ashtakvarga or Astahgvarga (not sure of the spelling really), which is used in Vedic astrology to calculate points and figure out the strongest planet in the chart - Yet, I don´t know personally what is the role of the strongest planet in the chart *shrug*

Now we have dominant, dominating, and Almuten. What is the role for each?
November 14, 2021 at 20:59
(Aquarius) Ways_of_Leavin' » Seanfhear
Yes. I have read the Almuten of the figure (literally "ruler of the chart") is the winner of the chart, the chart victor. It is the most dignified planet in one´s chart, and is said to even signify your basic character and destiny in life.

One of the reasons I got confused was because of this website calculator: https://af.cpptea.com/astrofox.php/…

It calculates my Almuten figuris (AF) as Jupiter, whereas the Morinus freeware that I downloaded (for the purpose of calculating the AF) instead gives it as Venus. AF Jupiter seems a mystery to me. I do not feel like Jupiter is very prominent in my life at all (I would bet on either Moon, Venus, or Saturn - but who knows really). Also, that same website gives my lord of the hour as Saturn (Jupiter?) I think. The Astro-seek planetary hours tables gave me Saturn as well - but when I entered the correct place of birth I actually get Moon here as well (well, somehow the time interval for the hours differs a lot from e.g. the tables at astrology.com, but at least for me, my lady of the hour is Moon regardless). Surely, giving JUPITER or SATURN as the ruler of the hour instead of MOON (true) is gonna mess up the calculation.

Of course, I could now just stick to the Morinus calculations. But from I read online, there are some "extra stuff" here added which were not part of the original calculation algorithm. Well, actually there are different ones, and Morinus seems to not be using the Ibn Ezra method.

Calculating it by hand is another option, but it seems kind of complicated and time consuming. Since I am not at all experienced or knowledgeable about Hellenistic astrology I would be very grateful for any insights on this.
November 7, 2021 at 20:06
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com
System message: Post has been written by user Seanfhear, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
http://skyscript.co.uk/gl/…

from the sound of it seems like it is a "points" method to calculate which planet is stronger or dominant in the chart (Astro-Seek offers this).

By the way, the word Almuten is Arabic (المَتين)- Almateen - can be used to mean the thick one or the powerful one or the firm one.


Current Planets, Astrology Transits, Chart of this moment
Current planets
Planetary positions
Show chart »
Lunar calendar 2022
Moon calendar
Moon in Gemini Gemini
Show calendar »