"An eye for an eye""...

September 6, 2021 at 03:52 (UT/GMT)
(Pisces) fishscales
"An eye for an eye""...
I have heard that some who regard the Bible as a book written by superstitious goat herders interpret the passage "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" as some kind of "evidence" of a vengeful, vindictive God. (Many such people deny the existence of any kind of "God" in the first place, which makes their position curious to me.)

Perhaps the passage is meant to try and indicate that what one reaps, they also sow.

Nothing to do with a vindictive, vengeful God, just a "heads-up" that you create your own destiny.

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September 14, 2021 at 17:22
(Pisces) fishscales » Aren Levi
It was a figure of speech.

What I meant was that people don´t need to assume responsibility for karma being delivered to someone else. The system can take care of itself.
September 14, 2021 at 14:42
(Virgo) Aren Levi » fishscales
I do not think angels are main executors of karma, ... it is a dirty job
September 14, 2021 at 13:11
(Pisces) fishscales » Aren Levi
"anyway i believe karma can work through you - hence revenge"

Maybe it can...

But that does not mean we should pursue a role as "karma´s avenging angel"...

Very dangerous territory there...
September 14, 2021 at 12:42
(Virgo) Aren Levi » fishscales
maybe, maybe not

anyway i believe karma can work through you - hence revenge
September 13, 2021 at 19:50
(Pisces) fishscales » Aren Levi
"Revenge is gift from God, it is an expression of free will."

Free will is indeed a gift from the gods.

Taking revenge is actually an incredibly stupid use of free will though. We can only increase our own karmic burdens by indulging in it.

Justice and exact compensation is inherent in the mechanism of the universe. We do not need to do anything, to bring it about or expedite it, nor should we want to.

This is why God says "vengeance is mine." Not because God is champing at the bit to exact revenge, but because God knows that the universe will settle all accounts with exactitude, as must happen within a system of cause and effect.

(As always, I am speaking of God anthropomorphically for the sake of convenience.)

Free will is free will, however. People must use it as they see fit. They would do well to remember, however, that every action has a consequence.
September 13, 2021 at 17:13
(Aries) nutelina » nikkia
Maybe for most people but don´t forget our corrupt legal system. With that I´d say the exact opposite, I do what is necessary. I have sometimes finally taken revenge and it was a good call. Not proud of it but if no one really has your back...
September 13, 2021 at 16:20
(Leo) cubic » Aren Levi
It sure would have been removed from the genetic pools long time ago if it was not needed or inefficient in restoring ones honour, but societies need to constantly reinforce repression of the mechanism, because if it scales up, it tends to create big cycles of revenge. E.g blood feuds.
September 13, 2021 at 14:05
(Virgo) Aren Levi
Revenge is gift from God, it is an expression of free will.
September 12, 2021 at 01:07
(Aquarius) nikkia » fishscales
Well, if you say so, my friend! I don´t disagree with most of what you wrote. I enjoy our exchanges about these subjects... you being more bound to ancient scripture than me.

So God doesn´t punish? But Satan is Ego. God made Satan, Earth and Man.
Woman gets blamed. Such a misogynistic crock from day one!

And, salvation occurs when ego is eliminated.

That´s great for the individuals who complete this task... but, what about all those who suffer from these ego-bound men throughout the whole of HIStory? With no end insight? The Earth and animals included.

Where´s their salvation? Their reprieve? Their saving?
A promised land?
A promise of a reward in some heaven when they die from brutality?
Believe in Me - and live forever in my father´s kingdom?
Repent for sins and you´re magically saved because Jesus died for them?
72 Virgins?
Myths. I´m sorry (again, no offense meant to anyone!)

So, be a pal, will ya? Wake me up when all men lose their fragile Egos. And Satan is no more. Maybe then, I´ll believe there is a God who corrected the design flaw made with the first dude.

Love ya, Fish!
September 11, 2021 at 20:35
(Pisces) fishscales » nikkia
"The sooner Mankind takes responsibility of his own ego-bound vile nature..."

That´s half of the purpose of religion right there...

"...no punishment or salvation will be needed."

Punishmeht occurs because of the existence of the ego, salvation occurs if the ego is eliminated.

Both occur via internal means, not external ones; that is to say, they are the results of our own actions, not of some external "judgment."

That´s more or less the premise of the thread.

September 11, 2021 at 20:07
(Aquarius) nikkia » fishscales
**Religion has no "inception" date. The science of merging with God is timeless, and as old as mankind itself.**

What´s the science of separation from God? Birth?

Religion has no inception date? Every major religion would tend to disagree.

Religion and Science? Maybe we will figure out why people ´believe´...but that´s science figuring out ´religion/ belief´ not the other way around... unless you know something I don´t, which is entirely possible, do tell.

Nope. That´ not why I think religion is nonsense. Those are just objective observations how it has manifested worldwide since the dawn of MANkind.

A story. That´s for sure! Early Man created gods in the attempt to explain what he could not. Thunder and lightening - Zeus must be pissed. Drought - Poseidon is pissed. Floods - Poseidon is pissed again! Geez, he´s a moody one. Earthquake or a Volcano erupts.. oh shit! Hades isn´t happy! We´re all going to hell!

Natural disasters = God is pissed.

We´re being punished!! Let´s build temples, worship, kill animals and sacrifice virgins to make the gods like us again. These ´gods behaved´ just as poorly as man, yet, somehow they were worthy ´our´ worship to avoid their wrath? Jupiter´s cock! That´s some great gaslit story telling right there!

Then there was ONE. One God.
Then there was another ONE God.
And, another ONE God.

My god is better than your god. <I treat myself to an eye roll here>

You wrote something to the effect that ´even God acknowledges Karma´...

I couldn´t help but see God´s God.
And God´s God God.
Then God´s God God God in my minds eye... to infinity and beyond!

If that´s anywhere near what God is, far be it for the tiny human to comprehend. God may not even comprehend itself.

So, anyone who says they think they know the nature of god is suspect. That´s why I don´t believe any of the crap we´ve been sold. Then and now.

The sooner Mankind takes responsibility of his own ego-bound vile nature, no punishment or salvation will be needed.

And the rest of us might live in peace. With enough resources to be kind, creative, and joyful the world over.

Maybe, finally, we can let these stories be what they are. Old Myths.
September 11, 2021 at 17:51
(Pisces) fishscales » nikkia
"In earlier times these ´teachers´ gave us dogma."

Everything, even good things, devolve into dogma. Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Moses, Mohammed, Lao Tzu...these were not dogmatists, politicians, or power-seekers, however. Good "preachers", for lack of a better word, have existed, and will continue to exist...although today, the best ones would probably be crucified for what they say...with the religious establishment probably first in line to do so. (History repeats itself.)

"Religion is sheer nonsense to me (sincerely, no offense meant to anyone!)"

That´s because when you think of "religion", you mainly think of it´s degenerated modern public face...killing in the name of God, exercising power and control, asking for money, ego battles over whose God is "better", the absurd notion that holding a certain belief can "save" you.

This is not religion. But like I said before, people can pervert anything.

"What´s it supposed be, then?"

Very roughly, and very briefly, (and however inarticulately), what I wrote in my post to AmberMoon. (these are borrowed ideas, not my own.)

"And, does it apply anymore, since we are literally thousands of years beyond its inception?"


Religion has no "inception" date. The science of merging with God is timeless, older than mankind itself.

September 11, 2021 at 13:30
(Aquarius) nikkia » fishscales
In earlier times these ´teachers´ gave us dogma.

Religion is sheer nonsense to me (sincerely, no offense meant to anyone!)

**..what we call "religion" today is not what it is supposed to be.**

What´s it supposed be, then?

And, does it apply anymore, since we are literally thousands of years beyond its inception?
September 11, 2021 at 12:44
(Aquarius) nikkia » cubic
Good post, Cubic.

Yes, perceptional apparatus is changing.
Not fast enough for the likes me! :2:

It seems that the 10th house (powers that be) are not letting go of power, greed and dogma which has proved destructive throughout.

If we are truly evolving, we will realize the 11th house.
September 11, 2021 at 10:48
(Pisces) fishscales » nikkia
"It´s hard for me accept that the authors, preachers and organized religion didn´t know exactly the affect and effect their messages would have upon the flock (in keeping with goat herders image)"

As for the original authors of various religious scripture...I definitely don´t think their intentions were to bring about the kind of "religion" that predominates today.

Throughout history however, there have been "editors" of religious scripture. Their motives vary, mostly leaning towards the negative.

Preachers...these days, mostly mouthpieces for dogma.

I think in earlier times, preachers were more like "teachers".

At any rate, by and large, what we call "religion" today is not what it is supposed to be. It in no way was meant gain power over any individual or group in its original, pure form...the human ego (the only Satan that exists, while we´re on the topic of religion) had other plans though...
September 9, 2021 at 09:50
(Leo) cubic » nikkia
We associate the Saggitarius sign/9th house with Beliefs.

On high level Saggitarius is about experience. Something like pure perception, perhaps going beyond what is known.

One then draws conclusions from said experience. They can be moral, philosophical, scientific, legalistic.

Then that gets codified in a legalistic or religious system of knowledge based on said experiences. We now have a whole framework that potentially gets (wide)spread in society and is the new perception, and later on new design of structures/institutions(10th). On its lowest level we have dogma associated with Saggitarius.

The problem with all that that, yes God is one for all, and is the same for all, but we experience it differently.

A Nordic person will have a very different life experience than an Arabic one. Genetics.

Which brings us back to the previous sign - Scorpio/8th house. Arguably(?) associated with one´s genetic makeup/mixing.

So then if the apparatus(8th) to experience-perceive(9th) is bound to be different, we are bound to experience reality/God in different ways.

The codified, widespread Saggitarian frameworks are bound to lead to clashes. We can be upfront and aggressive about what we have strongly perceived.

We perceive the design of the world in different ways and we design our societies in different ways that fit us.

Everything in this realm seems to anyway end up being utilized by the central forces of power and money. At first looks sacrilegious, but who is to say that this process doesn´t serve even bigger purposes than what we see?

Perhaps power is more ultimately important than belief and even spirituality, if by design it´s allowed to corrupt everything? We all spin around the Sun. We all need certain powerful types of people to hold together a group, have a group / society spinning around them. The participants do it by their own choice / attraction to centers of power.

Through the (mis)utilization for power purposes/games over time things get corrupted, and perhaps something new is / will be generated. And if we are truly evolving (8th) then that should be ok, because we do not perceive the world in the same way anymore as when the beliefs were initially generated, because the very perceptional apparatus has (de)evolved.
September 9, 2021 at 02:40
(Aquarius) nikkia » fishscales
Yes, the human ego causes things like this to happen. Here we are in a world plagued by religious wars.

It´s hard for me accept that the authors, preachers and organized religion didn´t know exactly the affect and effect their messages would have upon the flock (in keeping with goat herders image)

Agreed! Belief ´saves´ no one. Belief all too often causes destruction and death and misery on a mass scale. Destroys many. Saves no one.

A science to salvation? How intriguing!
Is this different than 108 lifetimes and Karma or is it the same idea?
September 9, 2021 at 01:59
(Pisces) fishscales » nikkia
"Amen to that, my brother! And yet that is exactly what belief based on scripture and religion does."

Not what those things were intended for, but I guess that´s the nature of the human ego to cause things like that to happen.

If any given religious clergy or clergyman thinks that a belief will save someone, I don´t think they understand the nature or purpose of their own religion, or any religion.

A belief is essentially an opinion, and you know what they say about those.

Suffice it to say, a belief is not going to save anyone.

I do think there is a "science of salvation" ; but it is based on practical action, not beliefs or theories.

Other people´s "buy in" is also not required, or relevant.
September 8, 2021 at 16:33
(Aquarius) nikkia » fishscales
*No individual or group should try to control what anyone thinks*

Amen to that, my brother! And yet that is exactly what belief based on scripture and religion does.

(Public Service Announcement: Wikipedia is asking for money. Be :5: and send 3 bucks, if doable)
September 8, 2021 at 13:26
(Pisces) fishscales » AmberMoon
"There is no such thing as "correct" comprehension unless the author him-/herself is there to confirm.
This becomes increasingly difficult as writings and original ideas age.

All else is dogma or an attempt to interpret."

I disagree with this.

The word "religion" comes from the Latin "religare", which means to bind; in this case, to bind oneself to God.

I have read (and agree with) the notion that this binding is an energetic, alchemical, scientific process; a process based on undertaking a very specific course of action(s). A process with rules.

This process is allegorically and symbolically illustrated in the scripture of all the great religions of the world. (Which are all essentially variations of the same concept.)

It is important to remember that "action" is the keyword here. Religion is about creating a fundamental *energetic* change within the human being, and illustrating specific methods by which this can be accomplished: these methods are a constant, and are not subject to change according to anyone´s beliefs, opinions, or interpretations.

The chemical components of water are not going to change based on anyone´s beliefs, theories, or desires to debate about it.

Unification with God works the same way; it is a chemical reaction on a metaphysical level that is brought about only under a set of very specific conditions.

Reality remains what it is, beliefs and opinions remain what they are. They are essentially irrelevant to eachother.

The code has been given to us by the world´s great religions. It is up to us to decipher it, and act on it. And like any code, it must be deciphered correctly, or it just ends up being a bunch of meaningless, useless gibberish...which is unfortunately the state of much of modern religion today.

"So, do you think the habit of forming an "individual opinion" should make way for a hierarchical dictate on group level?"

No individual or group should try to control what anyone thinks.

September 7, 2021 at 19:10
(Cancer) Victor_Valiant_
Yes ;D
It´s the Universal Rule / Golden Rule of Humanity

It exists in 3 forms, and is present / adopted in all spiritual beliefs & religions in some form.

1 > Treat others as you would like others to treat you (positive or directive form)
2 > Do not treat others in ways that you would not like to be treated (negative or prohibitive form)
3 > What you wish upon others, you wish upon yourself (empathetic or responsive form)

September 7, 2021 at 09:18
(Aquarius) Leo Moon
The “ eye for an eye” phrase’s oldest attribution is from Hammurabi’s code.

This was a set of laws to maintain order in ancient Babylon.

It’s considered one of the first justice systems.
It specifically states at the beginning that one of its goals is to protect the weak from the tyranny of the powerful.

The eye for an eye phrase is repeated many times in the Bible. Especially the Old Testament.

Which makes sense since it is basically derived from the Jewish Talmud. The Talmud is focused on a code to live by.
One function of Rabbis was as a judge through interpretation of Jewish law.( still is in some Orthodox communities.)

“You reap what You sow” is another Biblical phrase that brings Karma to mind.

Or was it Lou Reed ? :4: “ You’re going to reap, just what You sow”. From his song “ Perfect Day”
September 7, 2021 at 08:47
(Gemini) AmberMoon » fishscales
There is no such thing as "correct" comprehension unless the author him-/herself is there to confirm.
This becomes increasingly difficult as writings and original ideas age.

All else is dogma or an attempt to interpret.

So, do you think the habit of forming an "individual opinion" should make way for a hierarchical dictate on group level?
September 7, 2021 at 01:06
(Virgo) LotusStar
Interesting post. I dont think God is vengeful, but he is just, and he is also merciful (according to the Bible).

If he already said the natural law he created is ´as you sow, so shall you reap´ then I see it as fair game to deal the consequences.

And I also believe that vengeance belongs to God. Even Jesus said, turn the other cheek. To me that meant to not enact revenge, and also shows he is merciful.

I´m not saying no self-defense or take the abuse.. but karma does its work, vengence affects your own karma.
September 6, 2021 at 22:40
(Pisces) fishscales » nikkia
What I said above.^^

There is no "desire" for vengeance on the the part of God or the universe...the "vengeance" is simply a natural outcome of the particular karma accrued by the human individual in question.

It is God´s business to deal with that, not ours.

Just because a certain issue is declared as being "yours" doesn´t mean you relish dealing with that issue.

Hard to speak without sounding like I´m portraying God as an anthropomorphic being...a concept which I personally believe to be absurd.
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