Dealing with your beliefs

August 21, 2021 at 19:42 (UT/GMT)
(Sagittarius) LanaRen
Dealing with your beliefs
Hi, nice to meet y´all! :13:
How do you deal with someone who doesn´t believe in astrology or any other spiritual thoughts? I feel super repressed from time to time as I feel I need to explain myself all the time and keep my beliefs on low profile, so I´m more and more on to developing my argumentative skills - but it´s not all the time about starting a fight, right - on the other hand, you wanna keep your beliefs, keep some kind of a safe space, I guess, for your own grow - which can be maintained by arguments and disscusion for some time, but is it sustainable tho?

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August 24, 2021 at 15:32
(Leo) MichelAngelo » 1janos
With all my sympathy for the users encountered by me on this site, I don´t hesitate to express the opinion that you´re one of the few of them who approach the issues of astrological nature in such a comprehensive manner. I don´t have much to add here, except that I would sign under what you wrote with both hands. Something beautiful.

Feel free to contact me.

Best wishes,
August 24, 2021 at 08:05
(Pisces) 11 » 1janos
So what you’re saying is planets don’t affect us but coincide with us?
August 24, 2021 at 07:34
(Pisces) 1janos » 11
In my humble opinion if you believe, that planets are influencing - by emitting some magic rays -, you, me and everyone else on the planet from distances of several hundred million and in the case of Pluto well over seven billion kilometres away, there are two possibilities.

1. You misunderstand what astrology is about. That can be corrected by studying the topic in depth.

2. You can be diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. That condition requires antipsychotics and your life is almost but ruined, by severe psychopathology.

Astrology is NOT based on cause and effect. Those concepts are valid in simple physics like mechanics.

Life is just a bit more complicated than that. I am sure you know that by now.

Astrology is not prescriptive; it is descriptive. It is based on the application of reasonably simple maths to a highly complex system of symbology.

Nowadays with the available computing power - and good people like Petr who know how to use it -, it is possible to do these reasonably simple but labour intensive calculations with remarkable accuracy in seconds, by just about anyone with access to this site, among others.

Whoever studies this worthy subject, must sooner or later move beyond Cartesian philosophy and Newtonian science. The 1650s and the early 1700s are well and truly in the past.

Astrological symbols represented by various planets, the Angles (Ascendant and Midheaven), various mathematical points in natal charts, their angular relationships based of geometry and their so called movements (transits, progressions) in time (as it goes by), appear to coincide with certain personal qualities, life events etc. All this information can be used to describe people´s character, personal qualities and unfolding of life events - by a skilful interpreter -, with access to reference texts and detailed research of same.

These coincidences were referred to as synchronicities by C G Jung the Swiss psychiatrist, who summarized his findings at the end of his life on the topic in the book: ´Synchronicity, the Acausal Connecting Principle´. Acausal or without cause. Please read the book for further in depth clarification.

The thorough understanding of an astrological chart and therefore a person´s life is a very arduous undertaking. That effort can yield remarkably accurate and descriptive results, but for me - for example -, it takes about 100 hours of concentrated work.
August 24, 2021 at 07:06
(Pisces) 11 » 1janos
I want to know how astrology works!? :22:
August 24, 2021 at 06:05
(Pisces) 1janos
Spirituality is a deeply misunderstood concept.

The word spiritus comes from the Latin meaning: air in motion or breath, if you like. All that breathes is spiritual, by definition.

It is a relatively recent and very narrow minded definition, that whoever is spiritual, needs to be silently begging for alms, live in abject poverty, wearing a nappy and having a shaved head. I am exaggerating to make a point.

In my opinion, the modern day definition of spirituality needs to involve - apart from being alive and breathing -, an attitude of causing no harm.

Cause no harm by commission or omission.

If you attempt to convince people, that Astrology works, entertain the idea, that it is NOT based on cause and effect. Trying to convince people, that distant planets have a direct influence on you, me and everyone else, from hundreds of million kilometres away, and in Pluto´s case over 7 billion km distance away, is based on Magical Thinking.

No - at least partly rational - person is likely to accept this kind of profoundly mistaken thinking, as fact. To believe that planets affect your life and cause your character traits, is clearly an irrational idea and you will be labelled as a crazy, mixed up kid, and a member of the lunatic fringe.

Please let me know, if you want to know, how astrology works.
August 24, 2021 at 05:27
(Pisces) 1janos » Lib_8
And you tell them, that it is the retrograde Mercury, that causes those issues? Do you?
August 23, 2021 at 15:45
(Scorpio) OS* » LanaRen
whatever makes you happy, Ren Lana.
August 23, 2021 at 14:26
(Sagittarius) LanaRen » OS*
I mean, you kinda arguing yourself
August 23, 2021 at 13:35
(Pisces) fishscales » tomdos
"Id guess 90% of anything spiritual going on these days is THIS."

I would guess 99.9%, but yes, I essentially agree.

Good post.
August 23, 2021 at 13:31
(Leo) tomdos
It is uncelar where you are coming from, and without this information, it is hard to help. What I mean is, how serious you are, what are the „spiritual thoughts and beliefs“ you are speaking of, is this your recent interest or is it dating way back (like years?) and developing further?

People tend to fall for astrology and „other spiritual thoughts“ without even realizing that it is more of a hobby or a trendy lifestyle than a need of soul. Especially at young age. Then, after some time, they lose interest. But before that they invest a lot of time and energy into this „project“, which often includes spreading the so called spirituality into the world. They tend to change their life from the outside, because thats all they are actually capable of. The clash with materialistic society is inevitable. In this case though, it is not a real clash as the spirituality is not real either. It is more of an ego clash which only gives bad reputation to any kind of spiritual ways. Id guess 90% of anything spiritual going on these days is THIS.

Spiritulity does not like publicity of any kind, as this world is very hostile towards it (we live in Kaliyuga after all). It is a private, fragile and deeply personal thing, it needs to be cherished and held dear and secret. If you are true in your ways and beliefs, your life will slowly change and adapt, even new poeple will enter your life, yet they will be scarce and few. On the other hand, many people will inevitably leave your life. Are you ready for that? You cannot have both worlds without sacrificing the essence.

Truly spiritual person will inevitably become introvert, secluded and rather alone (that does not mean lonely). One cannot understand self without graduating the lesson of being alone, which means being with just self, being self. I am stressing this point because this realization will help you a lot with dealing with the others. It is a lesson of maturity not many adults ever pass. The need to explain, justify, or defend yourself comes mainly from the insecurity of fake self - ego.

The basic modus operandi of people seriously walking spiritual paths has always been: be descret, do not share, do no explain. Keep it to yourself. Nobody needs to know and if anybody needs to know, then only on the need-to-know level. Spirituality is a gentle flower that knows exactly where and when to start growing. It does not like small talk. Also it does not need your help spreading or justifying. This will only lead to all kinds of hostility. Always.

You mentioned parents. Yes, parents and close people are tough one, especially when you do not meet their expectations. Do not fight and argue, be kind and patient in defending your position if it is neccessary. They are the ones to talk to on the need-to-know level. If your spiritual vales are true, then they will understand and accept one day. After all, the flower may be invisible but smells beautiful.
August 23, 2021 at 11:40
(Taurus) Joachim
You know, I´ve been studying astrology for about 40 years now, and on top of that, along the line, incorporated Buddhism (and a bit of Taoism) into my belief system. So this is how I see it. If you´re arguing or attempting to impose your beliefs on others - which you might not be, I´m not accusing you - then you´re setting yourself up for the blowback from them. This stuff is the ´occult´ in its original meaning of the word - ´hidden knowledge´. It´s hidden for a reason: It frightens people, the whole idea of destiny and ´fate´ frightens people (even though astrology isn´t really about those things in the way non-astrologers imagine it is). It might be that some people haven´t incarnated into their lives to tackle the esoteric this time round, if you believe in reincarnation (I do). It´s almost impossible not to enthuse about astrology when you first discover this new way of seeing (I know from experience), to not to want to share it with people. But in the end if they´re not ready, then they´re not ready. Don´t argue back, or even try to explain. Let it drop. The ones that are interested will be attracted to you, over time. Find a cadre of friends by going to astrology lectures, or in astrological professional bodies. I found that these people became my best and closest friends because we can talk *astrology* to each other. How else can anybody understand if you say ´I´ve got Saturn square Sun today and it´s exact. Good lord it´s heavy, and the work´s piling up?´ (as I did on Friday :D)and have someone understand exactly what you mean!!!? Anyway, that´s my take. Go find a group of friends who are as enthusiastic about astrology as you are, and relate to those who are not through other shared interests.
August 23, 2021 at 11:16
(Scorpio) OS* » Catch-22
"it´s just not useful to argue about it because there´s no rationalistic explanation yet"

If this is how you feel, then just don´t waste your time arguing with others (specially with your critics).
August 23, 2021 at 09:01
(Aquarius) Catch-22 » OS*
Science made an enormous paradigma shift with Descartes where empiricism was replaced by rationalism. Cogito ergo sum. In se it´s not bad to "prove" anything, but I have a problem with discarding everything that hasn´t been proven yet by rational thinking. It´s the Spanish Inquisition, not of religion, but of knowledge. It´s a main criticism of rationalism: it often leads to dogmatic thinking, without considering the limitations of the human brain.

I have no clue why, but astrology seems to work for me. I have the experience that it works and it is tested every event that occurs. If it doesn´t work and all the things I read don´t make sense, I will stop using it. The experience is very important here.

Many critics of astrology work out of the rationalistic argumentation. All the discussions I had were rationalistic of nature. If that is the case, it´s just not useful to argue about it because there´s no rationalistic explanation yet (and this is so important: the "yet", because a lot of science would not have existed, like Newton´s Laws, without accepting the experience as base for science).
August 23, 2021 at 08:26
System message: Post has been written by user RohanScorpio, who already deleted profile on this website:
Two days ago, I was in a zoom meeting with over 100 people. This was a zoom meeting with my principal, depututy principals and over 120 students. I said in the chat that Covid-19 is a Scorpio and I am not getting vaccinated. Then this guy who I usually bore to death said "what does star signs have to do with anything?". I replied with "That´s excatly what an Aquarius would say". Just before I left the meeting I said, "Gotta read my horoscope".

What I am trying to tell you is that you shouldn´t get attached to people´s expectations and society´s status quo.
August 22, 2021 at 17:54
(Sagittarius) LanaRen » lightning
Thank you! :)

It is super importamt to hold your space, for sure and also respect the space of others, it is not important of course to talk about spirituality (as astrology or so) at each cost, and sometimes it is just not the right moment - so many other topics are so fun too :). Then again, maybe there have been too much space for others, right - and that is what I´m figuring out at the moment - how to have that space for myself, which is also what feels so repressed, because it feels wrong to have a space for yourself.
August 22, 2021 at 16:58
(Sagittarius) LanaRen » nikkia
It is actually my family I´m struggeling with most, who you cannot just leave. I´d like to have with them some common ground, where I have my healthy space as well as they have their own, however/but their expression of love can be tricky/confusing at times as they try passing on me their own beliefs ´because this is how the world works´, otherwise there are conditions until I ´get it together´

So it is a struggle. I try to be understanding, but also trying not to losing myself for what it is, that´s important to me (so maybe that´s what I hold).

Good question, by the way, got me thinking :)
August 22, 2021 at 16:54
(Leo) cubic
I´ve Mars, Mercury and Venus in the 9th house of beliefs, frameworks etc. Let me tell you I know about a thing or two about talking and arguing about beliefs, and at the end of the day when it comes to jobs and new people I adopt a low profile. At my last job I said NOTHING about any of my beliefs and perceptions, and that´s probably more difficult for me than for most given my chart.

Why? Because you can build a reputation for 20 years and lose it in less than 5.

When it comes to astrology it really is something that a person can be discredited with in certain sets and settings, and in general, and while it seems like there have been here and there periods in history where it was more accepted e.g during the Renaissance in Italy, the Ptolemaic Kingdom, Babylon etc. Still if you were a man of repute you still run a high risk if you´re out in the open with it.

Manuel I Komnenos was an Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor who was deeply and openly into astrology, timed battles with Electional Astrology etc and still despite his high rank, it was a chink in his armor and where he was still publicly attacked, yes by Christians but still. Constantinople had a specifically timed chart for its inception but that didn´t help neither.

There is even good reason for it, you can get sidetracked by seeing the world through the framework of astrology, you will be suspected of giving up agency for the idea of divine plan for you / fate. Free will is indeed more reliable.

But at least it´s definitely more acceptable for a women to be into astrology, it can be dismissed as silly stuff women are into, and thought of as nothing of real concern.

Anyway it depends.. I remember meeting somebody who I´ve talked with online for about 8 years on and off during a trip, and she had no idea I´m into astrology and I had no idea she was into it.

She very early, too early in the conversation started blurting out enthusiastically about it.. it was her Saturn Return coming in a few months.. I honestly kept my tongue shut and started ridiculing her a bit about it, because she was stressing so much about that damn Saturn Return, it came off as more than silly, so I kept picking on her because of that astrological thing while not letting out that I am also into it. She was the kind of girl that liked being a stupid shit, but likes her guys to be the silent type and deeply traditional, so I thought there is no gain for me in that situation, and I don´t like how such subjects can make conversations too mental in real life and kinda ruin the experience, so instead I switched the topic to something else more light / fun.

On the other hand on the last family meeting there was this guy a serious manager type at a big time IT company, who I had lengthy conversations with about all kinds of technical stuff like A.I blahlbhah, so then I got bored and could steer it to spirituality then astrology, and it turned out he is into it.. sometimes I have a hunch. But I bet you a million dollars he´d never tell about it, had we not had lengthy conversations about technical stuff first, to establish that we´re both capable of logic and grounded thought dudes, sane etc, lol.

So yeah.. make of these real experiences what you will. :4:

Sometimes you´ve to prove yourself in real world, materialistic matters, and then you are in a position where you can influence people´s beliefs better, and they might be receptive.

In general arguing about beliefs/frameworks/religion/politics is so often a fruitless endeavor, best you can hope for is faint interest and respect from the other side, but no real conversion. And perhaps it´s better that way, for sake of maintaining convictions / stability.

With my Mars in 9th, I can quickly stir it up if I want, but again - most of the time is not worth it, leads nowhere.

So of course sometimes you take risks or little risks or someone else is more outspoken and then things click, you find your people little by little.

When I think of it I can nowadays afford being low key due to how much satisfaction and exploration of all that 9th/12th house stuff I´ve had in the past, so my heart is settled about a lot of things, but yeah it sucks when you´re yet to find the venue/people for your stuff.
August 22, 2021 at 16:42
(Leo) MichelAngelo
Hmmm... I see it like this (and this applies not only to astrology, but to any other field the mind may or may not want to engage in):

Don´t ask for an opinion.
Don´t ask for permission.
Don´t ask: which path to take? Which is the right one?
Shut up. And look under your feet.
You´re just walking along it.

Do you feel thirsty? Have a drink.
Do you feel hungry? Don´t refuse food.
Are you tired? Lie down to sleep.
Your heart is pounding like a hammer? Love as you can.
Are you suffering? Drive the thorn deeper into the wound.
Tears are in your eyes? Don´t hide them under your eyelids.

Then the secret will cease to be a secret.
August 22, 2021 at 16:30
(Taurus) Rosincvist
Radio Astrologer Farley Malorrus only associates with those folk who believe in Astrology. Michel Gauquelin did Empirical Logical Positivistic Research which suggests he wanted to wipe-out the need for belief in Anything not strongly apparent!
I see more U.F.O.s than the average Santa Fean because I bother to look, if they got closer I would be unable to dissociate Astrology from U.F.O.s :32:
August 22, 2021 at 14:21
(Scorpio) OS* » LanaRen
“Then yeah, I could be selective - but then I exclude, I build walls. That can protect you for some time, but at the same time closing from other chances, because you keep being enclosed, afraid.”

I work in a corporate field. I never had any issue or felt “afraid” because I didn’t share my beliefs with them. In fact find it amusing. There’s a girl at work everyone hates, they nicknamed her “dead fish”. It’s ironic to me since she’s a Pisces. . .

Over the years, I’ve build relationships with friends that have the same beliefs as I do. You’ll find yours, just need to look in the right places.
August 22, 2021 at 14:19
System message: Post has been written by user lightning, who already deleted profile on this website:
Hi :)
The grand majority of my circle does not believe in astrology or any other spiritual thoughts that I have :) thing is that with my best friends there is no right and wrong ... There is a you-side and a me-side... So i dont tell them these things as if they are the ultimate truth, but my point of belief.. and they do the same with their beliefs... There is no need to be completely on the same page imo as long as there is understanding and acceptance of others views..

For me its absolutely necessary to talk about these topics in real life and not just online as they are part of my life and i dont feel the need to hide anything. I have encountered a lot of people saying "i dont think so"... Well good for you that you have a strong opinion idc :)
In my experience even the biggest non-astrology-beliefers listen thoughtfully when you start telling them some things about their birth chart 😂😁 (sneaky me)

Do you maybe have an example of when you feel repressed and have the need to explain yourself? :)
August 22, 2021 at 14:14
(Libra) Veri935
Just remember that in this day no age Everyone is insulting one another… for beliefs it’s increasingly more unusual to have, and also that nobody (well maybe about 70-80%?) knows anything!! :61:

So yeah the majority don’t believe in anything
August 22, 2021 at 14:07
(Sagittarius) LanaRen » Lib_8
Thank you, I know!! And it is a relief! It´s so cool to discuss or talk about these kind of topics at least somewhere, you know. Just...yeah, just gotta be more and more comfortable with this, on the other hand it is important to communicate your truth.
August 22, 2021 at 14:02
(Aquarius) nikkia
Inability to maintain functional relationships doesn´t seem very sustainable. My question is why you feel the need to fight?

What belief do you hold that limits you and your relationships with others?
August 22, 2021 at 14:01
(Sagittarius) LanaRen » OS*
Right, also everybody has a right to speak about anything they choose, minding the consequences. Then a clash might happen, but hey, it can be pretty fun actually - not that fun if it happens again and again tho. Just gotta need to find my voice, is what I´m struggeling with it and how to deal.

Then yeah, I could be selective - but then I exclude, I build walls. That can protect you for some time, but at the same time closing from other chances, becasue you keep being enclosed, afraid.
Posts: 32-8 7-1
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