12th House Sun - Solar Return Chart. Nooooooooo! - Discussions, questions

plumreme » NeutralOne Thank you so much. This was delightful to read. I´d love to stay in touch and compare notes! I´m particularly interested in how you experience Venus in the first as it moves along; I´ve had similar inklings about mine... or that it´s adding something to how I´m able to sort of interface with with the world in a service role.

I´m absolutely feeling a need for: more exercise *outside*, more rest. I have more physical sensitivity to doing things that aren´t serving my health, and a drive to focus more on what does. I´m focused on self development *through* a letting go, and have taken a leadership role (but one that´s a bit behind the scenes and focused on others) very recently in a collective that focuses on advocacy... away from "little self" toward the empowerment of others. But it´s a lot of letting go already (mostly of things that have been holding me back from stepping up) and also of rigidities around *how* to be spiritual... redefining what that means around what works for and empowers me.

Thank you - I find this encouraging and helpful.

Here´s to year that helps us along our paths ;)

viv » plumreme 🌻🌻🌻

NeutralOne I also have a 12th house sun and first house venus in my solar return chart. So far (it´s only been a couple of months) I´m needing to take care of my health. I´m also taking advantage of this position to open up more to spiritual development specifically around thinking of myself less (the little me) and opening up to the truth of the infinite within and allowing it more play in my life (rather than the little me trying to control). I´m finding it´s a time of one-pointed focus on spirituality, empowerment, and realization. Not sure what the venus in the 1st means yet. So far it´s like a love for self development. We should keep in touch and continue to compare notes!

You mentioned that before your birthday you were starting to feel better... Well I´ve heard that the theme of the solar return can be felt up to three months before the birthday. So take that as s good sign! Then again, this life isn´t about chasing after comfort and avoiding the unpleasant. Our challenge is to see that this dimension is formed by these polarities and three is no avoiding either of them if we want to play the game and get free.

Best wishes!!

plumreme » viv Thank you, Viv.

And point gratefully taken. This recognition (and subsequent release) of the expectation for privilege is important to me, too - I will carry this thought as part of this story.

Here´s to planting sunflowers!

viv » plumreme So glad my comments were helpful Plumreme. You were so genuine it was easy to respond.
Another thought : we are all embedded in structural inequalities ethnicity, gender, class, health/disability, sexual orientation, upbringing, state, nation etc etc
Learning not to see privilege as our right (and part of our ego-identity) seems important to me. I can think of lots of privileges I have. I don’t feel guilty for them but the question arises how can I use them at this point my life?
It’s late winter/ very early spring here. I might plant some sunflowers too! 🌻🌻🌻

plumreme » viv Thank you, Viv <3 !

This is exactly what I needed - someone with a similar enough view of it all walking with me for a moment, acknowledging/encouraging a position that is hopeful, whole, sober without trying to fly into the ethers in denial but also not submitting to despair. life soup - in all it´s glory and challenges.

There are things here I hadn´t even considered, but which resonate so much. In fact, what you´ve written is something I´ll return to throughout the year to digest more, and will become richer on each pass. Thank you.

Specifically, I´m really chewing on (and hopefully this will be helpful to others reading who may be in a similar place):

1. what you said about the power dynamics. In a communal context, I was with someone who has a lot of power, while I have very little. Thus I was targeted, while he survived and thrived. Everything I had relied on communally (which I´d now say was pretty shallow) vanished. Of course, what I hadn´t chewed on until very recently was how I, too, may have abused the power I had (even if it was much less than he had). I´m facing some difficult truths there that I hadn´t wanted to see -- I wasn´t as innocent as I wanted to believe (ego attachment); used pretty egoic powers to have what I wanted without fully weighing the impact on some of the people around me; and I certainly failed to assess and appreciate what a vulnerable position I was in, relying on those very shallow support structures (more ego).

2. regathering a core sense of self. I think I was so stubbornly attached to public opinion for a sense of worth, that it had to be forcibly removed to break that attachment. The false securities that were in the way have been demolished and mostly cleared (some bits are stubbornly hanging around. I´m imagining a house demolition). Now it´s all just sitting in a state of rubble, not quite able to build something new yet, assessing whether any of the old structure can be reused, dust in the air, nails on the ground. but seeds are there already, yes, ready to be planted.

I´m gonna plant those seeds, Viv! Thank you.

And yeah, like you, I´m a believer in the efficacy of astrology. My presence here on this forum is kind of predicated on that, so I like to assume it and move from there.

I love the idea of saying, "Venus, I don´t understand... ".

interconnecting systems theory - yes, yes, yes.

viv Happy new year Plumreme. May it be much better. First well yes you do have that Pluto opp Sun opposition for a while yet🌻🌻🌻Maybe it’s like the sunflower, going into the dark centre and discovering amazing and nutritious seeds as well as beautiful golden petals.. It will take quite a while to inwardly digest whatever power dynamics caused your relationship breakup and maybe deep consideration of your ego involvement in this will be needed? In the end what others think of us is their business much as that may hurt at first. We are only responsible for our own thoughts, feelings, behaviours etc So I’d say this opposition may be about regathering your own core sense of self. North node in the fourth with your natal Moon and Neptune supports this too. A new imagination of who you are and what you are to do and be will be emerging in the depths.

Then I notice you have SR moon Jupiter in your seventh! That is surely a more buoyant and optimistic image? And maybe Uranus at the SR MC will indicate a new career direction rather than damage to your reputation!

Like you I will be glad when Saturn moves direct in Oct, your idea of taking care with your health is probably a good idea and then as it moves into the seventh some discernment in relationships..

I don’t think it helps to temporarily fly somewhere on your birthday. The resonance to where we normally live is stronger and I usually look at the SR for birthplace too.

Nor do I think planets are “inanimate” or that astrology need be taken in a fatalistic way. I think we live within interconnecting systems of spiritual energies which we can call on for help. This does not negate (or require) a belief in God! Nor does it negate our own free will. It just can be helpful to say “Venus I don’t understand what you are trying to teach me here, please help me wake up to what you want to offer.“. and the same with every set of planetary energies. They are here to help us become who we want and need to be. If events occur from the outside, like fate, and sometimes they do, I suspect it is because we are not yet big enough to understand the why.

And Yes. I agree a Sun 12th SR is an indicator of a time of contemplation and completion, but no one would stop you planting sunflower seeds!
Best V

fernamdo » Joanna Suzanne Wow, true. This is something to raise. Few weeks (or even months!) before my birthday, I was totally freaking about my SR with Sun in profound and frightful 8th house... After a dramatic 2020 with losses and pains, I was really expecting a "soft" SR but got frightened with the results, but I prefer to interpret this and an end of a weird cycle. I still try to control things, but all I can control is: time to get up, get ready for work, brush my teeth, go to bed, and all of this can change... Thanks for these words it really helped me :) (sorry for not an impeccable language as I´m a foreigner still on studies)

plumreme » Joanna Suzanne Thank you. It is certainly reassuring to put things in perspective that way. And absolutely, yes, the worry and fear projected onto a chart is useful information to redirect the focus back onto things we can actually guide and control.

I guess it´s just that, in retrospect, when I look back at previous years, there´s really a coherent story/pattern visible in the solar return. Yes, to some degree, we can always connect some dots around what we already know happened, but I do think there are... focuses, not predictions of events per se, but areas of life/psyche that tend to be highlighted more than others.

Given this, and current circumstances and focuses, the chart resonates. And I want to see strengths in it and consciously guide what I´m working with (or not), particularly in areas where I´m historically very uncomfortable but likely need to grow.

I think the planets and the story they tell are a reflection of both whatever higher power exists (if any) and our psyches. There´s an order there - I don´t think we understand the ins and outs of it, but we know it works somehow. And in that there is both some surrender/acceptance and some control -- not so unlike any other belief system.

But point taken to heart. I need to think more about those fears and what I can do feel more in the driver´s seat. Thank you <3

Joanna Suzanne Maybe checking astrology and being worried about it, tells us more about the fears we have, it´s not that reliable as a predictions. You may take negative information to heart, because you worry about something.

It has been proved in scientific research that astrology predicts as much as guessing. It can be fun to learn astrology, but to make real life decisions, getting anxious about transits is not beneficial, I know it from experience.

My solar returns never seem to look good. I don´t think that it matters anymore.

I relied on tarot readings for one year and then astrology became another way to control and try to cheat the system, knowing things in advance. It didn´t work. Everything got better, when I returned to the reality and put energy in things that are working.

You will be fine, because it´s up to you. I don´t know if you believe in God or higher power, but there might be someone more powerful than some inanimate planets.

Read the research that disprove astrology, it puts things in perspective. Also there are things you can do to improve your situation.

plumreme » cubic Okay... i´ll take this light-hearted response being the only response to my post as my dose of "fate" then. All the Sag in me appreciates it.

but ... on an astrology website, we can acknowledge that certain transits through a lot of actual, well documented (and in my estimation scientific) evidence have an impact on physical events or what we otherwise refer to as "reality". Fate? nah. impactful/causal or at minimum correlative/explanatory? Well, that´s what astrologers are tracking, in general.

Anyway, I want to craft a story or list of helpful things to ponder and do to make such a year less likely to be detrimental. I´ve heard of ppl actually traveling to change their solar return charts. If these charts work in the way we think they do, though, I don´t think we can run from our 12th house years. but I am determined to guide it in a conscious manner (and maybe be extra careful with my health and you know not do anything that might lead to arrest or institutionalization, ha. )

cubic Quick, get on a plane and fly to a city in the world where the solar return is going to be in your 1st house or another, then fly back to home on the next day

It´s because things like that are possible I´m such a non-believer in all this destiny-fate business