12th house synastry overlays

July 20, 2021 at 03:43 (UT/GMT)
(Leo) Sunnyshadow
12th house synastry overlays
Curious about this. How it manifest.

I know someone very casually that has Sun, Merc., and Venus in Virgo, which falls in my 12th house. Ive read a little about it, but still pretty green on all of it. It does feel kinda karmic. Just something about this person almost feels like i know them without actually knowing them. From the first time I saw them, something seemed strangely familiar and wondered if this has something to do with it.

Ive read several interpretations that say the planet person is affected by the 12th house person also.

Dont have a pointed question here, just fishing for general info on 12th house overlays

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July 23, 2021 at 08:46
(Aries) ram_goat » Sunnyshadow
Havent had much time to really meditate on the words and meanings much.

there are no clocks in the 12th house...
July 23, 2021 at 08:22
(Aries) ram_goat » Sunnyshadow
Havent had much time to really meditate on the words and meanings much.

take your time with the 12th house.

always keep your intentions there on the good side of things.

I posted examples of 12th house people where things went horribly wrong.
They were deliberate cherry picked examples. In both cases, the people involved were utterly blindsided by their affairs & activities becoming public, and it basically ruined the lives of all involved, in a very public way involving the law and criminal charges, after things first started out in secrecy, soon enough every cringey detail became public and common knowledge.

Of course it was avoidable, but the 12th is a murky place. Clarity is difficult there, but on the other hand, good intentions cost nothing and act as a fog dispeller for the natural fog of the 12th house. I´de add truth to the list, but to be honest, even truth can be murky in the 12th. It´s almost mandatory for good intentions/higher purpose to be present in your thoughts and actions for anything 12th house to work out well. Of course the list is almost endless of people who didn´t get that part right because they didn´t understand it, going in.

Clinging strongly to conventional notions of "self" and "ego" in the 12th house will only lead you astray and hurt you more. A bit like clinging to a concrete block after your ship sinks. Being adrift is a dire situation, but even floating empty handed is easier than trying to tread water holding on to a block of concrete. The 12th is a foggy place, but even though it can be confusing, there is still a basic upwards and downwards direction to the 12th, just as there is swimming in a lake. Fortunately, we all have an instinctive feel for this that is very primal and leads us to swim in the right direction, unless we (mis)use our minds, expending great effort to override and go against what our natural born instincts tell us. Often ideas of the "self" and egoistic thinking are that concrete block we cling to while trying to float and not sink, in the 12th. Far better to let it go, rather than let it drag you down to your death.

In most 12th house things, there is a line, and usually we know when we cross over to the wrong side of it. You get a bit of a feeling for it at the time, and lot of feeling for it later on, along with remorse and many other things.
So try to keep things on the right side of the line, whatever that means for the situation, one day to the next.

If you are going to get involved with someone on a 12th house level, it´ll have to be about unconditional love and healing, first and foremost. Even when those things are very uncomfortable and drag you out of your comfort zone.

If you consider the circumstances of the "bad" 12th house examples, their relationship are about anything but love and healing. Weird power dynamics, taboo sex, secrecy..
July 23, 2021 at 01:17
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » ram_goat
Thanks Ram for sharing this. Some good info in here. I read through it kinda fast today and caught a few good points. Havent had much time to really meditate on the words and meanings much.

Hate to say it again, but work has been bonkers this year. 🍌 We´ve got rain pretty much every day for the past month and have been going full blast at work. Busiest year I´ve ever had. And doing it all without the help I used to have. One friend has been helping me for about a month now. Hard to believe how busy its been really.

Why i said earlier, i hate to even start threads or ask questions. Dont really have the time or energy to follow up on my own freakin threads :61:
July 22, 2021 at 08:39
(Aries) ram_goat
Venus in your Partners 12th house

The Venus person will be highly complimentative with the house person which will help increase their overall self-confidence. The house person will feel good with the Venus person and they will share a psychic connection that is quite powerful. It is possible that the house person may not trust the Venus person´s motives. This might be valid, this is the house of secrets and hidden enemies in the negative and with Venus is could be ulterior motives. This usually indicates a secret relationship of some sort, or you tend to be private. If the Venus person has good intentions and is a good person, they can help the house person uncover many of their hidden talents or parts of themselves they may not have been previously aware.

Sun in your Partners 12th house

There is something elusive, mystical, magical, or undefinable about your Partner and it´s possible your partner may feel this way about you. You have an intuitive connection, and much of your relationship might take place behind the scenes in secret or not very public. You may confide in each other, things you normally would not with others. The house person might help the Sun person release old karma, uncover hidden talents, or heal through an unconditional love, or acceptance of the Sun person. Negatively, you can feel weary of each other, confused about one another´s intention, or find the relationship or interaction uncomfortable. If the first applies the two of you likely have come together to learn about unconditional love, spiritual matters or psychological matters. It is also possible there may have been a past life or karmic connection that needs healing.

You may have met in a unique way, you will both share very intimate details with one another. There is also likely a spiritual or unconscious connection that exists between the two of you even if you are apart. You may idealize one another, or see things in another that no one else can see. This house holds both the soul-mate and the enemy so it´s always best to proceed with caution in any love relationship.

Be sure, to be honest with each other at all times. It´s also possible that the house person may dream about the Sun person. The Sun person can see things about the house person they may or may not realize about themselves. The Sun person can either help or hinder the house person depending on their intentions. They will have insights into the house person that can uncover many things. It´s also possible that the two came together to heal or help one another in some way.

Be careful to not let the interaction become too heavy, or more like a Psychologist or Dr/Patient relationship.

If other factors apply, this can very well be a soul-mate connection or a deeply spiritual, and even magical connection that neither one of you are likely never forget.

The 12th house - The house of Pisces and the Planet Neptune

Keywords: Hidden, self-undoing, merging, dreams, delusions, blending away, fog, unclear, uncertain, depth, mystery, trickery, prisons, institutions, hospitals, asylums, secrets, spirituality, spirit world, psychic, intuition, consolidate, integrate, the unknown, murky, mythical, nebulous, fantasy, the unconscious mind, subconscious, non-translucent, vaporous, cryptic, ambiguous, the obscure.

In synastry, the 12th house is a tricky place for it can leave one feeling confused, lost, delusional or positively highly spiritual. Planets placed here lack definition and focus; the general energy of the planet is dispersed into an indefinite foggy, nebulous environment and this house often blurs and dissolves the planet energy. One thing for sure is you are unclear in this house which is why the possibility of deception and self deception is very possible. Mercury rules our logical mind, our perception and the way we think and communicate. Logic fares poorly here, you must feel your way through it.

In synastry when a person has their Mercury (conscious mind) in your 12th house (unconscious or subconscious mind) it can be a confusing and unsettling placement for both parties.

This can cause major confusion in the communication between partners. The perplexing conversations this position ignites often leaves one or both parties uncertain of the other´s intentions, thoughts and feelings. There can be many misunderstandings, and often a odd feeling of something is not right which can bring about all sorts of illusions, fears or even feelings of Paranoia between the couple. Whether or not these inklings are accurate or not really depends on the personal natures of the people involved. If one or the other person is a "deceptive person" than deception is likely or at least very possible.

You would need to look at the individual charts of the parties involved as always the natal chart of each person needs to be considered. It is important to seek the truth with this placement and to not fear asking questions.

It is also important that you communicate with each other as best and honestly as possible. Separate the fact from illusion. Don´t sabotage and bring to fruition the very nature of your paranoia by making accusations that are not there as well. The Mercury person can see things that the house person may not even see themselves, these insights can be quite amazing and very helpful to the house person is used positively. Otherwise negatively they can be used to undermine the house person.

They can see your hidden talents and are likely to support you in bringing them out. They can even sense what you´re thinking almost telepathically. Although the signals can be confusing, it helps if they both have some Neptune aspects in their own natal chart to be familiar with the energy, if not- signals can be misread. The 12th house is a psychic house as well.

This person can also come in a form of a spiritual messenger or guru that has a message that is very important to you. They can help you understand yourself better than you ever thought possible.

Positively, if both people have each others best interest at heart this indicates that you can have one of the deepest spiritual experiences with one another. The depth of understanding you have of each other is as if you are on the same spiritual plane.

The complex 12th house is where things go to dissolve, end and or merge with one another.

As the mercury person strives for clarity with the house person, you will find them asking many questions, wanting to know " why?" they think or say the things they do.

In synastry, clear communication is very important for the couple to develop and yet "clear" is not something the 12th house provides.The house person may "think" they understand the mercury person better than they actually do but because of the obscurity of this placement it´s hard to tell, that if what you "think" you understand is really what it is. Mercury has great insights into your psychological closet and you will be amazed at the things they pick up.

Trust is a huge issue with this placement because of the vagueness of this house. That´s what makes this placement so tricky.

The key to handling this placement is that both individuals need to spell things out clearly, listen closely, ask questions and be extremely honest with each other. This has potential to be a very close spiritual bond like no other dream like and all, where both parties have a deep understanding of each other and explore the realms of the spiritual world together living in another world of their own.
July 22, 2021 at 03:03
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » rohini moon
No, i dont know tob. She looks like a libra rising or maybe Sag. Ive just been guessing at that. I dont see her anymore, except on social media.

Seeing her pics is literally like seeing a ghost (in the best way) its just weird feeling so much affinity for someone i barely know
July 22, 2021 at 02:53
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » fishscales
Yeah, not sure what she thinks of me. But with sun/moon and venus/mars seems there would be mutual attraction..

Just never got up the nerve to actually try to message her or anything. Maybe i like the idea better than the reality..For now.

Shes a little on the young side anyway. Although she seems very responsible for her age. Probably *the* strongest attraction ive ever had for anyone though. Much more than physical too. Like i said, its like seeing a ghost or something. Something you know without knowing. But respect her and the situation enough to just keep it to myself.

My luck 😏

You know, just reconfirms all this astro stuff. Didnt have to look at the charts to know I was very attracted to this person. But then look at them and all these conjunctions. Just adds to the "proof" of astrology. Kinda cool
July 22, 2021 at 02:09
(Virgo) rohini moon
I´m just being nosey here...but, you said you only met her once or twice,right? So did you ask for her TOB - or are you just going off of her birthday alone?
July 22, 2021 at 01:54
(Pisces) fishscales » Sunnyshadow
Ah I was wondering if it was the same girl, but you didn´t mention it, so I figured it wasn´t...

Yeah...sun-moon conjunction and Mars-Venus conjunction...

Can´t say the attraction is a mystery...

Thing is...she´s got to feel it too...

Engaged, not engaged...

As Stevie Wonder said...

All in love is fair...
July 21, 2021 at 23:02
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » fishscales
Its the same person, lol.

I guess ive got a bit of an infatuation going on. Ive only met her once or twice. Shes younger and was engaged. Think she still is maybe. Ill forget about her for awhile and then see some new picture of her (Facebook :28:) and ill get interested again and look at our charts.

I think the moon/sun conjunction is a big one, yes. And its like within 1°. Pretty much my dream girl. Mars/Venus conjunction pretty big too im sure.

Its like just looking at a picture of her brings up so many ..emotions, maybe?

Its like seeing someone that you swear you know alot better than just meeting once or twice for a brief time.

My Saturn is conjunct her Venus also. Within 1°. Think i read how that could be strong but challenging. Maybe something that takes time to build, yadda yadda.

The 12th house thing is interesting to me. Also got a lilith/Pluto conjunction exact. Ill just be over here day dreaming
July 21, 2021 at 12:17
(Pisces) fishscales » Sunnyshadow
Man you are good at finding those sun-moon conjunctions with people...

Is it your sun and her moon?**

If so, king of the relationship aspects to me.

The reverse works too, just doesn´t represent the "classic archetype" as much.

Of course, the Venus contacts don´t hurt...

I guess the 12th house overlay could cause the feelings of familiarity you´re experiencing...the one caveat I would mention is that if it´s their planets in your 12th, what you could be feeling is something that is awakening in your own subconscious...her planets there are kind of "stirring it up"...the fact that whatever is being "awakened" is already a part of you could account for the feelings of familiarity..

Those 12th house overlays can also create a feeling of mystery, which isn´t always a bad thing in a relationship...

**Edit: on further investigation, it seems like that´s what it is. :15:
July 21, 2021 at 02:58
(Aries) ram_goat » Sunnyshadow
I feel bad for starting these threads without having time to follow up much

as if this place ever runs out of gab.
July 21, 2021 at 02:58
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » ram_goat
Looking back at my relationship with my ex, i know exactly what you mean in those last couple sentences.

Alot has to do with the intention and the maturity of the planet person, from what Ive read. I suppose they can be your greatest blessing or worst nightmare

She had mars directly on my 12th house cusp, jupiter and saturn also in my 12th
July 21, 2021 at 02:53
(Leo) Sunnyshadow » fishscales
No, not really. Trine my mars and 150° from my mercury (forget the name of that one)

Sun/Moon conjunction and Mars/Venus conjunction. May be more just physical attraction, but just makes me do a double take something fierce

I think the 12th house stuff has something to do with it. I just wonder how the planet person feels about the 12th house person. Probably already been answered. Ive glanced at this (thread) once or twice all day. Yall know what Ive been doing...🥵

Still try to make time for astrology :4:
July 21, 2021 at 00:54
(Pisces) fishscales » Sunnyshadow
Curious to know due to your mentions of deja vu type feelings...any significant south node aspects between the charts?
July 21, 2021 at 00:36
(Leo) Sunnyshadow
Thanks for all the replies. Some really good ones. Informative too

I feel bad for starting these threads without having time to follow up much. I should have more knowledge of this topic. My ex had mars and Jupiter? Maybe in my 12th house. But dont really like to use her as a good example.

This other person has alot of good synastry with me as well as the three planets in my 12th. Probably the most deja vu ive ever had with a person
July 20, 2021 at 19:38
(Leo) plumreme » Zephyrin
moving this to new comment b/c I think the tag didn´t happen above

"My Chiron in his 12th... maybe that´s the lack of trust, too. @Zephyrin (and not to post hijack but) I´d love to hear how Chiron in 12th might play out, from your perspective, on planet person and house person. You don´t need to mince words around it being my Chiron (assuming I´m the "bad buy" there, at least via projection. haha)."
July 20, 2021 at 19:37
(Leo) plumreme » ram_goat
Well, alright then! Meander I will.
July 20, 2021 at 19:15
(Virgo) LotusStar
I have this going both ways, their Venus, Pluto, ascendant in my 12th; my Sun, Venus, Mars in their 12th. I should probably also mention we have a lot of Neptune aspects both ways.

It started with the vague eerie feeling of familiarity and recognition like you mentioned, that "dont I know your from somewhere?!"

Not sure if this feeling is an illusion or projection though because more I get to know them, the more they remain a mystery. I can never fully scratch the surface it seems, doesn´t matter how much I ask questions and try. Something about them feels illusive and it triggers some trust issues for me.

Feels like there´s a psychic connection but also feels like there´s a blind spot somehow. Honestly it´s kind of confusing....I´m still trying to figure it out. I do feel like we help each other though.

Also have this with a best friend of mine, her Sun/Mars/Mercury in my 12H *and* conjunct my SN. I feel like she´s my sister from another mister. She´s always had my back, from what I can tell.
July 20, 2021 at 17:48
(Aries) ram_goat » plumreme
@Zephyrin (and not to post hijack but) I´d love to hear how Chiron in 12th might play out, from your perspective, on planet person and house person.

Threads go where they go, in here.. no need to worry about such things.
The best and longest threads in here often meander quite a bit.
July 20, 2021 at 16:53
(Leo) plumreme » Cind
Ha! Yes ... he told me about his dreams. In fact, that´s how things got moving into something more materially realized - we shared our dreams of each other with each other. The first one (on my end) was insane: I posted images from a book I was re-reading on social, he messaged to me to say he used to have the same book (first time messaging me). I didn´t tell him until later that was revisiting the book *because* I´d dreamt a few nights before that I gave him my copy of the book (after everyone surrounding us, in the dream, sort of vanished and we were left standing in the middle of what looked like athenian stadium ruins). I hadn´t touched it in over 15 years, dreamt I gave it to him, saw critical images from the book in the dream, looked them up, posted the images, he reached out... all went from there. and oh -- the book was about dreams. ha.

Dreams on my end have continued, not sure about his end. It´s been the same amount of time for me, and I was *just* this morning thinking about doing a cord cutting thing after running into him yesterday and then encountering cord cutting advice randomly (or not, now that it´s come up twice today) through someone else´s story.

I look at Pyche, too, for this sort of psychic thing -- it´s conjunct (1 degree) his Eros. I think it´s rarely just one aspect or house activity that causes the psychic stuff. and I think Neptune comes in there, too, of course.

My Chiron in his 12th... maybe that´s the lack of trust, too. @Zephyrin (and not to post hijack but) I´d love to hear how Chiron in 12th might play out, from your perspective, on planet person and house person. You don´t need to mince words around it being my Chiron (assuming I´m the "bad buy" there, at least via projection. haha).
July 20, 2021 at 15:57
(Taurus) s81
Your 12th house is not empty, Saturn is there, so those planets of the other person will have to deal with your Saturn.

In any case, when the Sun of a person falls in your 12th house, it´s healthy that some lights in your dash turn on.
July 20, 2021 at 15:13
(Leo) Zephyrin
I would be glad to share my experiences about 12th house.

Someone´s Mercury in another´s 12th house may be an indication of knowing how the house person is feeling or thinking even if he/she does not tell about it and that is kinda scary for house person. Mercury person may be aware of it and enjoy. There may be a sense coldness in conversations and Mercury person may abstain from deep talk, may be extremely secretive.

Venus in another person´s 12th house is not nice. House person may ask too many questions to planet person about the past partners, want to know what you´ve done with them and the worst part is, house person may not trust you at all whatever you do, he/she may always think that you keep dark secrets from him/her. Past plays the main role for that placement. I can say that Venus in partner´s 12th house may turn a relationship into a toxic one easily.

I guess the worst 12th house placement in a synastry chart would be Pluto or Chiron. Especially Pluto because the house person may feel so vulnerable in the relationship that this may cause Pluto person to take advantage and there may occur a desire to change house person´s life, thoughts and attitudes. No doubt there would be any kind of manipulation and restriction caused by the Pluto person. If gashlighting was a placement in synastry, it would be Pluto in 12th house.
July 20, 2021 at 13:31
(Pisces) Cind » plumreme
Omg really? Did he tell you he´s had dreams about you?

I am very psychic anyway so it´s not just him I have dreams about. It´s about everyone. I know at least a month before when someone is coming back into my life as I have very vivid dreams about them.

But my mercury was conjunct my ex´s psyche in his 12th so the connection is strong. Needs cutting to be honest hahaha :61: not a fan of these dreams its been a year and half. Cut cut that energetic cord haha
July 20, 2021 at 13:22
(Leo) plumreme
I can say the most karmic feeling thing I´ve ever experienced... his Venus/Uranus conjunction is in my 12th...his Venus is ON my 12th house cusp - 0 degrees (and it all unfolded during my Neptune square natal Neptune/moon conj). In our composite, Moon is 12th house OPP Mars in 6th.

And like @Cind - he was and is very suspicious of me, even though I was never doing *anything* nefarious. Cind, I can tell you, from my perspective as the house person, the dreams go two ways here. It´s almost constant. but ... my Pallas is conj his sun and his Pallas conj my moon/neptune, so maybe that´s in the dream connection, too.
July 20, 2021 at 10:03
(Aries) ram_goat » Cind
Trust is a very important 12th house word. But it´s the house of untrustworthy people mixed in among the trustworthy ones. Good you found one you can trust. That totally changes the nature of the 12th and makes it a really magical and healing place. Have to be careful that you only let the right ones in..
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