Pluto opposite Sun

March 13, 2021 at 19:29 (UT/GMT)
(Gemini) (dragonfly)
Pluto opposite Sun
I wonder if you could help me understand this constellation. I´m especially interested in the case when the Sun is located in the 12th house and Pluton in the 6th house. All descriptions, which I have found, sound disturbing. I´ll be very grateful for sharing your experience.

Posts in topic

Page: 3 2 1
Sort posts:
March 27, 2021 at 14:29
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » 1janos
Nothing more to add.

Thank you :-)
March 27, 2021 at 06:44
(Pisces) 1janos » goldenlion32
Fully agree with both of your comments.

Sadly, the examples are endless.
March 26, 2021 at 22:00
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32 » 1janos
That´s been my experience. I see people graduate with a degree. They go project the labels for insurance reasons and to get paid. Then people make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sure, they have tests, but I question the validity of them, because they are basically typical questions that might be temporary and not long-term.

We know astrologically, someone might have a hard time in a bad year with the right transits, maybe even a few months, but it passes. They someone thinks this is long-term.

There´s experimentation involved. Which I don´t think people really question it, because of the title of being an authority. And then they do what they´re told, because the authority should know what´s best.

I kind of agree. Do what is harmless versus harmful. I rather work with people with natural medicine. And someone else can take on that responsibility. Since I´m more of spiritual inclined person, I can´t see giving people medication unless they really need it and can´t function in society.
March 26, 2021 at 21:49
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32 » 1janos
I really love that joke. I agree. "Spiritual Emergence" gets ignored by the Mainstream. I think a lot of people have to go towards the alternative to find the truth and see from a different angle.
March 26, 2021 at 21:03
(Pisces) 1janos » goldenlion32
Academic psychiatry and psychology training is mostly theoretical. From a therapeutic point of view that is pretty useless.

I agree with you, textbook knowledge is not particularly beneficial, if a person has no experiential understanding, hence can not empathize. I have little doubt, that most wish to help, but the framework of reference is rigid and narrow. Plus, nowadays pretty much everyone can be labelled with some kind of nonsensical syndrome. We tend to pathologize everything.

Hippocrates´ adage:´Primum non nocere´, Fist of all, do no harm still rings so true in modern medicine.

When powerful, profoundly mind altering drugs are prescribed and sometimes forced onto people, the long term consequences can be devastating. A significant number of people become victims of a paternalistic medical establishment. Disempowered, worse off and drug dependent.

Sometimes doing nothing is better, though seems harder and is definitely less profitable.
March 26, 2021 at 12:44
(Pisces) 1janos » (dragonfly)
Yes, a long time ago I worked with severely mentally ill people for a short time, but psychotherapy has little worthwhile to contribute to their treatment.

Then I was involved with assisting substance abusing people for about 10 years.

At the same time I was in private practice working with the worried well in individual and group settings, based on humanistic approaches and personal growth oriented principles.

I used to be involved with the Australian Trans-Personal Association and the Australian Spiritual Emergency Network, as a consultant. I´m not into anti-psychiatry, because denying serious mental illness doesn´t make it go away.

´But when I read, that victims of sexual abuse are paying karmic debts in this life, because in their previous life they were abusing their current abusers... That makes me speechless. That´s an example of a belief, which I consider dangerous. I would think ten times before posting something like that, even if I deeply believed in it.´

Couldn´t agree more. Gobbledygook!

People invent and embrace all kinds of beliefs, without any proof or critical thinking.

It is necessary to view these thought trends from a historical, and a larger sociological perspective. However judgmental it sounds - and I certainly wish to avoid that -, it needs to be admitted, that most people are content to be told what to think, and do. Grown ups used to be children, and these generations upon generations of children were taught certain things, values, beliefs and norms, that they have intro-jected without examining them. All of this mentally, emotionally and spiritually ´undigested´ material is still present in their consciousness.

And this forms the orthodox foundation their life is based upon, perpetually.

All I hope for, is just some people to learn to be still, now and then, and consider their own truths and values.
March 25, 2021 at 17:33
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » 1janos
I have been thinking about this. I also have my professional background that I don´t want to refer to it, but whether I want to or not, I perceive certain matters through the prism of my professional experience. I understand that your approach comes from your experience working with really seriously ill people.
I will not argue with that.

"Thoughts and beliefs are very powerful."

I think the reason we missed each other at some point is, that I don´t take astrology that seriously. I am intrigued by the possibilities offered by astrology. I took the first step and I will go deeper into it. However, some part of me still approaches the topic with reserve, and honestly I hope it stays that way.

I am very interested in what others think and what they believe, but I´ve always been a sceptic. It doesn´t bother me that much, when someone generalizes by describing Venus in Aquarius or Mars in Capricorn. I really don´t need to study astrology for decades in order to understand that it´s not as simple as some people describe it on the forum. But when I read, that victims of sexual abuse are paying karmic debts in this life, because in their previous life they were abusing their current abusers... That makes me speechlees. That´s an example of a belief, which I consider dangerous. I would think ten times before posting something like that, even if I deeply believed in it.

So, yes I totally agree with that: "There are so many vulnerable people, who do take seriously what is suggested to them."

We all should be careful when commenting on some posts. We never know who´s on the other side and what they´re really going through. There are so many depressed people, who are looking for help here...

I still believe that the public forum like this, has its own rules, and you won´t change them. But I like the way you approach the subject. I see in everything you write a great sense of responsibility. I would like to see more comments from you on the forum.
March 25, 2021 at 06:25
(Pisces) 1janos » goldenlion32
Here is an old joke for you, I just remembered:

A Neurotic is one who builds castles in the air;
A Psychotic lives in them;
and the Psychiatrist is the one collecting the rent.
March 24, 2021 at 19:09
(Pisces) 1janos » goldenlion32
Totally agree.

Irresponsible treatment, that borders on abuse is very common.

IMHO the use of anti-psychotic and other powerful medications is warranted for only those, who are seriously mentally ill.

I used to be involved with the Australian Trans-Personal Association and the Australian Spiritual Emergency Network as a consultant. I´m not into anti-psychiatry, because denying serious mental illness doesn´t make it go away.

However practicing differential diagnosis to determine who is experiencing serious mental illness, and who is going through Spiritual Emergence is of vital importance.

If treated appropriately the end results are profoundly different.
March 24, 2021 at 18:32
(Sagittarius) goldenlion32 » 1janos
I kind of agree with you, the psychiatry has a dark side, and I think since I learned as well that the psychologists/psychiatrists mean well, but I think they go to school, get their degree, don´t really go through the whole experience first themselves and heal the wounds and then project a lot of text book knowledge, or DSM V, and through the last two Generations they have pretty much left out a lot in the treatment of others.

You might find some like yourself that dig deeper for answers, but others who are against going outside the mainstream consensus and look at the whole picture. I know I get hit a lot by those around me that want to hang on to the idea the old system is working for people.

You can be in reddit, and here all the clients complaining because they´re kind of stuck in this system that fails to some degree.

They did the A.D.H.D. thing with Millennial´s when they were young. Everyone had A.D.H.D. and need a stimulus drug.
March 24, 2021 at 18:13
(Pisces) 1janos » (dragonfly)
It seems to me that we may be beginning to potentially misunderstand each other.

I find our exchanges stimulating and fun. Never even crossed my mind that either of us harbor bad intentions. We are discussing topics, that appear important to both of us. Keeping it in the forum, other interested members may take into consideration our thoughts.

In the distant past I worked with seriously disturbed people. Some were convinced, that profoundly objectionable thoughts were planted in their mind, and voices controlled them from the outside. This kind of delusion is very pervasive and hard to dissuade an individual (mentally ill person) to disengage from. They almost inevitably also experience paranoia. They suspect that everyone is out to get them. Its practically impossible to assist anyone who suspects other´s intention is to harm them.

I imagine most would agree, that these people are are not well, they suffer and it´s not easy to watch that. It is also hard to be helpless in the face of their apparent pain.

The floridly schizophrenic person has delusions. Among other thoughts they may think their mind is being controlled by aliens from outer space. It is a very small step from there to believing, that it is Uranus that is responsible. A sign of an un-integrated psyche or a disintegrating one. A projection of objectionable thoughts and desires. Ego alien.

And here I enter another vastly misunderstood concept, the Ego. More about that, if you´re interested.

´...you probably don´t take into account, that there are different ways to learn astrology. Trying to interpret someone´s chart and seeing if that person resonate with this is one of the ways. I don´t see anything wrong with that as long as both sides are aware of the limitations, and the interpreter does not consider himself infallible.´

I have only one serious objection to this assertion.

We need to base any inquiry on sound foundations. If that is not done, and is not understood, all spent effort at best is for nought. At worst it is going to cause harm.

If planets and other heavenly factors are used to blame a person´s conduct on them, the responsibility of personal decision is negated. That kind of Magical Thinking remains - at least to me -, a source of profound misunderstanding and dangerous confusion.

How can anyone seriously believe, that distant planets - from hundreds of millions or several billions of kilometres away -, actually directly influence them, and claim to be sane is hard for me to accept.

Is it not more likely, that they did not think through their beliefs?

It can be an interesting topic to examine single factor in an astrological chart. However drawing far reaching conclusions is what I see as dangerous. There are so many vulnerable people, who do take seriously what is suggested to them.

Shortly after I started in Private Practice as a psychotherapist in 1986, in Sydney, there was a fad to blame people´s difficulties in life on being sexually abused as young children. I saw dozens of desperate people who had no recollection of such trauma having occurred. They were told and convinced by practitioners at another centre, that those events were responsible for their present troubles. During in-depth self exploration, all but one came to the conclusion, they they were suffering as a result of being told that, and began to believe this fabrication.

Thoughts and beliefs are very powerful.

People ask WHY?

Providing some misleading answer can be very profitable and can cause endless trouble.
March 24, 2021 at 16:47
(Pisces) 1janos » pluto°rising
Thanks.
March 24, 2021 at 07:26
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » 1janos
I´m not sure, you got me right. What I wrote it wasn´t a complaint. It was only an observation and nothing more. I didn´t mean to criticize you.

"Without clarity there is a great deal of confusion, misinterpretation and vagueness. When a person discovers what is going on now, on any level, their personal awareness may increase."

I agree with you on hundred percent, and I appreciate you don´t beat around the bush. However you probably know, that most people prefer more diplomatic way of comunication.

I´ll tell you something. After you wrote this:

" 1. You misunderstand what astrology is about. That can be corrected by studying the topic in depth.
2. You can be diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. That condition requires anti-psychotics and your life is almost but ruined by
severe psychopathology."

I got an private message from someone, who didn´t like the way you answered me. And I really appreciate that this person had contacted me. It was nice to see, that someone cares of my well-being. You don´t need to thank me :4: but I stood up for you, because not even for a moment crossed my mind that there were bad intentions behind this, what you wrote. The thing is, I can be very direct too, so I can understand you very well. What seems offensive to others, it´s still ok for me. Although I have to say that, I have repeatedly paid a high price for my directness, and have experienced rejection because of this many times. I try to be more careful now, although it doesn´t come naturally to me.

""Drawing conclusions, offering advice, and forming opinions of others based on one or two astrological aspects and at best a cursory look at a chart is in my view is not just silly, but is irresponsible...
I thought, that those who visit this site wanted to find out more about Astrology. Perhaps I´m wrong. It´s alright, I don´t have to win or force my opinion on anyone else."

No, you are not wrong, but you probably don´t take into account, that there are different ways to learn astrology. Trying to interpret someone´s chart and seeing if that person resonate with this is one of the ways. I don´t see anything wrong with that as long as both sides are aware of the limitations, and the interpreter does not consider himself infallible.

You set the bar high, but that´s good. I´m sure you must be a great psychotherapist and an astrologer in one person.

In the future, you can feel free to correct me if I´m wrong. You also have to take into account that we will not always agree.
March 23, 2021 at 19:31
(Capricorn) pluto°rising » 1janos
"In my experience awareness of the here and now, is the key for any kind of psycho-spiritual progress."

An absolute truth.
March 23, 2021 at 18:39
(Pisces) 1janos » (dragonfly)
I´m a psychotherapist by training and profession.

In order to be of any use for anyone in this profession, it is imperative to be a clear communicator. Being of some use, especially alleviating the suffering in some people´s life has been important for me. At times, that can be done and I felt fulfilled doing that.

Without clarity there is a great deal of confusion, misinterpretation and vagueness. When a person discovers what is going on now, on any level, their personal awareness may increase.

In my experience awareness of the here and now, is the key for any kind of psycho-spiritual progress.

Mystification is a powerful tool, used often by those who want to impress others.
Prime example is most doctors, who love to use jargon to bamboozle their ill informed patients. They think by doing this, respect is gained. Not from me.

There is a great deal of room for misunderstanding in Astrology. Most people don´t understand how it works, and how to use this very powerful and subtle tool. What concerns me is, that these well meaning people don´t want to find out more in-depth information.

Stating ill informed opinion, is risky. Such is based on a profound lack of understanding of the topic at hand. In other words, ignorance.

Drawing conclusions, offering advice, and forming opinions of others based on one or two astrological aspects and at best a cursory look at a chart is in my view is not just silly, but is irresponsible.

I have been asked a number of questions like: ´Will I be able to become a successful actor?´ and similar.

I thought, that those who visit this site wanted to find out more about Astrology.
Perhaps I´m wrong. It´s alright, I don´t have to win or force my opinion on anyone else.
March 22, 2021 at 18:21
(Capricorn) pluto°rising » (dragonfly)
"My concern is, that no matter how much support you show them, it´s still not enough to ease this inner pain."

A valid concern. Also, your observations of people who share this aspect feel accurate to me.

In my own experiences, it´s the consistency of support has been the life saver. (literally) And by consistent support I don´t mean from only one source. When one person grew tired of supporting me, I sought out alternative sources and have repeated this pattern. There have been family, friends, partners, co-workers, strangers that came and went and when I felt too destructive to burden a human there have been books, songs, musical instruments, and finally my self. All this took close to four decades and there is still work to be done. It is a long slow heal, one I don´t expect to complete in this lifetime.

Like with all troubles and challenges, the desire for change is required for it to come about.

As an aside:
The positive of having this aspect for me has been found in relaxing with the help I offer to others. Over-helping or not being satisfied with the effect my help has on someone who needs it has been another challenge of mine. It´s comforting to learn that one grief-inducing aspect offers curing properties for another.
March 22, 2021 at 17:24
(Virgo) Etherealmind » (dragonfly)
I just like telling jokes exagerating stuffs hehe :4::4:

Don´t take it too seriously, just my humor :3: :4:
March 22, 2021 at 14:37
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » pluto°rising
"...Brings to mind the cartoon character that said "I have seen the enemy and the enemy is us"."

I think this reflects the reality well. Watching from the outside how behave people with a tense aspect between the Sun and Pluto, it seems like a constant inner struggle. They seem to be very self-critical, often swing between "I´m the best "and "I can´t do anything". My concern is, that no matter how much support you show them, it´s still not enough to ease this inner pain.
March 22, 2021 at 14:28
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » Olenna
I know, most of the descriptions of Krittika sound very negative. It´s hard to identify with them. But if you search deep enough, you can find a lot of positive things too. I tried to decide between western and vedic system, but I figured out, that it wouldn´t make any sense to me. In my case both charts are like two sides of the same coin, which are not mutually exclusive but complementary.
March 22, 2021 at 14:01
(Taurus) Astro-Seek.com » (dragonfly)
System message: Post has been written by user Olenna, who already deleted profile on this website:
=====
Haha i know very little about nakshatras, but yes kritika is rather harsh.
Honestly i don`t see myself in that description at all, in fact most descriptions are very negative stuff that i never experienced. Is true i can be very blunt but that`s just Gemini Mars nature, but not so blunt to be obnoxious and rude.
March 22, 2021 at 13:25
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » Etherealmind
I don´t know what battle you mean. There is no battle :1:
March 22, 2021 at 11:17
(Virgo) Etherealmind » pluto°rising
yeah Sun square PL creates so much inner anger but at the same time we have a pretty good placement with PL conjunct ASC (for some stuffs in any case but in a general way it´s better than Sun square Pluto) but mixing both ... I wonder if it´s very good :61: :61:

Indeed, thank you Waszcka the dragonfly :61: for creating this thread even if she seems to be busy in a battle game of reflections with 1janos now :61: :61:
March 22, 2021 at 06:42
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » Olenna
I looked at your nakhatras, and I had to laugh, as I saw that Krittika is very prominent in your chart. It´s a very powerfull nakshatra. I like this direct, sharp and straight forward approach of Krittika.
My Mars is in Krittika, so I´m very familiar with this energy.
March 22, 2021 at 01:30
(Capricorn) pluto°rising » Etherealmind
I have Sun square Pluto conjunct Ascendant also. I would say for me personally that is an accurate statement "sun-pluto hard aspected people who keep fighting their "enemies" hurt themselves more than anything".

Brings to mind the cartoon character that said "I have seen the enemy and the enemy is us".

The repetition of transformation/destruction/rebuilding in my life would fill a novel and sound like fiction. I was a late bloomer in my realization of this (through fatigue, not astrology - so it´s also true for me: "they wear out long term"). Even without knowing what my other chart aspects mean yet I would call mastering the theme of recurring reinvention of my life the hardest button to button.

It looks like I have a bunch of Pluto aspects, half of which look challenging but I´ve yet to learn about those..

Agreed, I needed this thread too.
March 21, 2021 at 21:53
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » 1janos
Thanks for my midpoints! I appreciate your help. I will also look at Robert Hand´s work, when I finish reading Vronsky.

"Read two separate topics on this forum recently by people, who were sharing their opinions on: Venus in Aquarius and Mars in Capricorn. Didn´t believe my eyes. Members, users of this website were drawing conclusions of the character and qualities of individuals just based on the factors mentioned. I find that kind of ignorance is just disturbing. No wonder the rest of society describe us, as the lunatic fringe. Magical thinking, mixed with vast generalizations and malice. Wow!"

I didn´t read threads you mentioned, but you are right. That´s not ok, when you take your time to share your experience, and people don´t even respond. It is possible, however, that some may be afraid to enter into discussions with you. You can be quite direct and critical. I personally like irony and can handle it perfectly, but I believe I belong to the minority in this respect.

I really don´t know how to avoid generalizations in discussions like this. I think most members of astroseek are aware, that by asking a question, they will not receive a deep and comprehensive analysis to the topic, they are interested in. You also wrote earlier, that interpretation of natal chart takes you about 100 hours. So, I wouldn´t take deadly serious, what I read here.

Besides, as far as I can see, astroseek is not a site for professional astrologers. Most of the people here are more or less advanced laymen. I´m sure you know this. If you want to hold talks at a higher level, you should join a community, where you can find people, who have knowledge at a level similar to yours. I think there aren´t many people here, who have studied astrology for 35 years. Therefore I think you are a bit too harsh in your judgment.

"In my view, Natal charts can be used to describe potentials only. Most people ignore a lot of their potential. There are numerous factors that elucidate this decision. Its worthwhile to pay special attention to Neptune. "

Yes, I completely agree with this.
Regarding Neptun, I didn´t pay much attention to it in my natal chart so far.
I don´t think Neptun is very prominent in my case, but I´ll take a closer look at it.
Posts: 60-36 35-11 10-1
« previous  next » »|
Current Planets, Astrology Transits, Chart of this moment
Current planets
Planetary positions
Show chart »
Lunar calendar 2022
Moon calendar
Moon in Libra Libra
Show calendar »