Abuse & Murder/Karmic Debt/Reincarnation

March 4, 2021 at 12:13 (UT/GMT)
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81
Abuse & Murder/Karmic Debt/Reincarnation
Whatup! I´m Kim :37:
I´m VERY interested in true crime and I´m a believer in reincarnation. This is my theory and I´d like to hear feedback. Is it true that if someone murders or greatly harms you in a past life...that you reincarnate and do the same to them. Then after this occurs, is the karma able to be cleared?
For instance, we know that souls travel in groups and often family reincarnate together, but just switch roles. Lets say you had great conflict with a family member or even were abused or killed by one. Would you then switch roles as in like...a mother kills/abuses her child and then they reincarnate together and the child killed in the past life is now the parent, and inflicts the same treatment on the parent who harmed them in the past life.
I don´t know if what I´m asking makes sense...lol! :6: I´ve just been thinking about this a lot. I study a lot of child abuse cases too and I wonder if some of it is karmic as retribution for harm they´ve done to someone in a past life. Tell me what you guys think about crime, karmic debt and reincarnation.

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June 20, 2021 at 01:44
(Taurus) Rosincvist » stellium12
:24: There is the idea that we must keep our noses pointed to the ground and ignore the sky so that we can remain inmates on "Prison-Planet" with millions not too different from our-selves! :32:
June 20, 2021 at 01:43
(Taurus) Rosincvist » stellium12
:20:
March 9, 2021 at 08:01
(Taurus) nutelina » AstroHoe81
I didn´t read the whole thread thoroughly but have you elaborated on the South Node synastry you have with your family? It would be very interesting to look at some examples of what you think indicates a certain karmic debt.
March 8, 2021 at 17:01
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » stellium12
I´m sorry, but I referred to what AstroHoe81 said.
March 8, 2021 at 16:44
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » AstroHoe81
"Ok, so what´s your theory and reincarnation and how it effects the victims and perpetrators of murder and abuse."

I desagree with the karmic theory, but it´s not that I´m supporter of some other theory. I believe, it´s worth being a good person, but not for the sake of a future incarnation. This doesn´t make any sense for me.

It´s nothing new, that people try to understand why their lives are so tough sometimes. However, imo this kind of "explanations" explain nothing, but rather disort the picture of already sufficiently dramatic experiences.

Personally, I´ve always been more interested in finding a way out of difficult situations in my life and not in finding explanation, for what mistakes or sins, is something happening to me. This way of thinking is foreign to me.
March 8, 2021 at 16:41
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » fishscales
I agree with you. It sounds beautiful, but life is not like that.
March 8, 2021 at 15:38
(Capricorn) stellium12 » AstroHoe81
When you talk of an astral family for reincarnation, how many souls do you think are in it? 100´s, 1000´s, million´s. Just curious. Its an area I never gave much thought to.
March 8, 2021 at 14:55
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » fishscales
Well, you´ve summed up everything I was trying to convey in your post!

I agree with everything you said and I´m glad you understand that I don´t strive to say this is or isn´t the way things are....just a theory I put out there to get other people´s theories and opinions.
I never set out to victim blame or anything of that nature. Just looking for input and different opinions.

Thanks for "getting it" :1:
March 8, 2021 at 13:35
(Pisces) fishscales » (dragonfly)
"This way of thinking is a vast oversimplification, and it is manipulative and dangerous, because it shifts the blame to the victim."

We should always remain compassionate to those who are suffering, regardless of our beliefs.

If anything, knowing that someone could have caused what is now befalling them themselves should take our compassion to another level...

And why would we put ourselves in a position to think that something is OK because someone "deserves" it, or judge them in the first place?

"Let he who hath no sin against him cast the first stone", etc.

It is not our business to determine why someone is suffering, whether they "deserve" it or not, etc...our business lies strictly in our own capacity for right action...
March 8, 2021 at 13:21
(Pisces) fishscales » nikkia
"Does anyone really KNOW this?"

Sure, I think there are definitely people who know whether the OP´s theory is correct or not...they are the same people who know that we incarnate multiple times on this earth, can remember their past lives with clarity, etc.

People with a fully awakened consciousness, who do not rely on the intellect or the senses for information, know these things.

Unfortunately, I am not one of those people. All I can say is that I have some vague, hazy instinct that tells me reincarnation is a fact. It, along with karma, is also, after countless hours spent (wasted?) studying various esoterica, from the traditional to the nonsensical, the only logical explanation for what happens to us, and why we are the way we are in my estimation.

As for the OP´s theory that families incarnate together... I am inclined to believe it is correct, for the simple reason that strong karmic ties have been created between these people, and are not going to simply evaporate...
March 8, 2021 at 12:33
(Pisces) fishscales » stellium12
Justice and mercy are the two pillars upon which the universe rests.

I think it is possible to implore your inner being (God, Spirit, whatever) for mercy, as long as you are serious about amending your ways and committed to learning how to live in accordance with it. (your inner being, God, spirit, etc.)

I believe certain types of karma are negotiable, and able to be paid through good works.

"Justice without mercy is tyranny, mercy without justice is complacency with crime."

That being said, I think someone who sexually abuses a child is most likely beyond redemption.
March 8, 2021 at 12:29
(Capricorn) stellium12 » AstroHoe81
As a sag moon, it is mutable energy. Always growing, learning, questioning. I don´t think we´ll ever have all he answers but will enjoy the journey in discovery.
March 8, 2021 at 12:26
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » stellium12
He was definitely talking to me...lol

but I like your theory A LOT and that might be more accurate. I just wonder how many times I´d have to incarnate with a person who killed or abused me without wanting to do the same to them. :10:
March 8, 2021 at 12:25
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » (dragonfly)
Ok, so what´s your theory and reincarnation and how it effects the victims and perpetrators of murder and abuse.

I see people getting upset with the theory and saying it´s victim blaming, yet not countering what does, or should happen to those who inflict this on others in their future incarnations.
March 8, 2021 at 12:23
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » stellium12
Agreed! I´m a Sag moon as well. Just figuring things out. It helps to get other people´s opinions and feedback :3:
March 8, 2021 at 10:49
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » AstroHoe81
This way of thinking is a vast oversimplification, and it is manipulative and dangerous, because it shifts the blame to the victim.
By the same logic, we shouldn´t even to counter violence, because the people, who experience it, get what they deserve !
March 8, 2021 at 09:08
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » Rosincvist
Hmmm a very interesting view :15:
March 8, 2021 at 09:00
(Taurus) Rosincvist
There is a possible "Portrait of Dorian Grey" type karma where the karma is held for late late late resolution!
John Lennon believed karma was instantaneous and he didn´t live long enough for really becoming a slow old man!
Optimistically souls progress from good karma to better karma, Saint Bodhisattva is a possible :27: -NY path!
March 8, 2021 at 08:57
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » (dragonfly)
I´m not saying that it´s this way for certain. Just a theory and yes.....Maybe that is the case.

Maybe a person does that to someone and then has it happen to them in the next life to understand how damaging it is. You guys are looking at in a revenge type of aspect where as I see it as a learning experience. How can you know how devastating your actions were if you don´t have to experience it for yourself? That would be the best way for a soul to learn a lesson and evolve in my opinion.
March 8, 2021 at 08:50
(Gemini) (dragonfly) » AstroHoe81
Would you say the same thing to someone, who was sexual abused?

No offence, but I´m not sure, you are aware of how it sounds like.
March 8, 2021 at 07:18
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » stellium12
I believe in forgiveness but how can a persons soul really learn if they haven´t been made to experience and feel what they´ve inflicted on others?

Now, AFTER the incarnation where the same is done to them...then I can see forgiveness coming into play and both souls agreeing to move on and clear the karmic debt.
March 8, 2021 at 07:16
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » nikkia
So you don´t feel child abusers and murders pay any type of karmic debt? I don´t see how it´s "letting them off the hook" if they are being made to suffer the injustice or indignity they caused to someone else in a previous life.
March 7, 2021 at 16:58
(Aquarius) nikkia » AstroHoe81
"I don´t think anyone really KNOWS anything for certain when it comes to these matters, but it´s a common belief that I share. "

Yes, this belief would make it easy to believe that child abusers are merely paying back those who abused them as children in a prior life. Thus, making the child victim of abuse to blame. While, at the same, letting the adult child abuser off the hook.
March 7, 2021 at 08:21
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » nutelina
I´ve just found the connections via apps like "The Pattern" and seen South Node synastry in all my siblings and both parents.
March 7, 2021 at 08:20
(Scorpio) AstroHoe81 » nikkia
I don´t think anyone really KNOWS anything for certain when it comes to these matters, but it´s a common belief that I share. :3:
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