Astrology Forum, Astro Astrology Chart Discussions

ram_goat » 11 Why do you say so?

It is just what I have observed. Neither one really understands the other
or how their minds work, how they arrive at decisions or the things they believe.

Pisces women marry all kinds of men, often foolishly. Gemini, less so.

It would be interesting to see divorce statistics by natal chart.

11 » 11 “He told me then, it’s good that we didn’t meet, cause next day he has met some other woman, who is so much better and started insulting me in lame ways. Suddenly I wasn’t his dream girl, but I was manipulator, who needs a doctor....”

Update..
He just called, asking, do I wanna hook up tonight.

Kélian » 11 I will not change my mind about the video, however i wasn´t talking about you in my last comment, because to me it is not you who´s talking nonsense, it is the girl in the video (we disagree on that, no problem).
Also, you said yourself in your initial post that your opinion could be "quite subjective", so i don´t include you in the group of people i´m criticizing. I was just making a general statement.

plumreme » 11 My pleasure, and thank you - I enjoyed this thread a lot!

Yeah, the female Hasta moon I know is *seen* as nice, sweet and innocent (but is not), which is what I thought the video (from someone´s description of it, I admittedly did not watch it) said about female Hasta moons... that they are the opposite of the male hasta -- innocent, lamb like, etc.

I hadn´t thought about the connection between A. Heard´s Libran stuff and bringing public attention to the Libran theme of the courts! Love it. And in the larger context of the US Pluto Return and Uranus/Saturn cycle - well, I hope we´ve not seen the conclusion just yet, that women´s rights (in particular in the courts) will fair better over a longer arc of time. I think it´s not gotten as dark yet as it will, but I´m hopeful. And this is not on theme of your thread, apologies, but now thinking on what astrology has to say about how public awareness of covert abuse, victim behaviors/presentation, and other common issues women face in the courts (which I now see is close to zero awareness) might come into focus. The (hopefully) death rattle of the status quo is real loud right now. This idea of things being covert, though, of charming, highly likable, attractive individuals being able to dupe masses of ppl feels like the themes of the Hasta moon discussed above, so not totally off topic.

And I appreciate the provocation ; )

plumreme » 11 So a nitpicky thing here but maybe helpful:

"Antisocial" in a clinical context does not mean lacking social skills (though, they certainly can have this lack), but more that they lack a sort of social concern for others. They *can be* extremely emotionally intelligent and able to read others really well, which they use to manipulate. The ASPDs with more "intelligence", the more covert type, can blend into society, come across as responsible and moral, be in positions of power where they receive a lot of recognition for their contributions, even. very calculating and charming. Some of them, conversely, can have much less control over their expression, lower intelligence, much more impulse (rage) driven behaviors, and thus unable to blend in and more likely to be (caught!) and charged with criminal behavior.

This is just from a clinical perspective, which is still just theories that change often enough to merit caution about their application. And even without that caution, people with this personality disorder are very rare. I´m wondering if a something closer to what OP is describing is more like NPD... or even a step away from that, someone who just has higher than average narcissistic traits, which is more folks (all the Hasta moons... ha, kidding).

I´m more comfortable thinking of all of it as a spectrum, and finding those traits and the possibility for their expression in all of us, in all charts... where is this possibility in my chart, in your chart? What are more healthy expressions of these trains, and how do I grow toward something more socially functional?

The societal expression of these traits is rewarded, rampant, and a threat to our survival. And we won´t get out from under it without identifying and challenging it in ourselves.

All of this said (Sag moon rant.. sorry, not sorry), I think air moons, sure, can be more detached than a fire or water moon. And completely anecdotally, I do know a HASTA MOON female who exhibits very low empathy, is very slick, manipulative, but is seen by most as pure, innocent, sweet, as the video describes - reminds me of the wisdom that "nice" and "sweet" (or emotionally intelligent) does not equal kind, moral or compassionate. And so, as with all things astrology, the reverse is probably just as often true - that maybe this moon is seen as slick and wicked when they are not.. maybe it´s a moon that´s more about "what you see is not what you get". I do think of A. Heard with this placement, which to my mind, is a very clear case of mass projection of unwanted traits onto a target (that we then punish and exile, as is the function of scapegoating).

11 » 11 Sonali Joshi mentions stealing.
In previous video also mentioned, how they like to play roles, pretend, disguise, put on a mask or play some character.

Few weeks ago one hasta moon guy asked me to do a favor for him, where he would eventually take my work as his and post it on social media for his personal gains (claiming as his own work). He felt no guilt. He said it’s ok, cause he’s being honest with me and asks before hand (instead I could do this behind your back - was his words), but didn’t see, how this act of pretense is wrong (cause often times there is no such thing as right or wrong for hasta)

11 » 11 I also advice to watch this for Hasta people.. remedies for hasta negatives (which includes manipulation).

Kélian » 11 Sociopath: "a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience."

It is the exact opposite of what the archetype of Libra represents.

Also, when talking about social behaviours and communication, the placements/aspects of The Sun, Venus and Mercury have a lot more importance than the placement of the Moon.

Prelude » 11 I have been here once before, a long time ago though, not sure I typed about him here.

Prelude » 11 My father is a Libra Sun and Moon, beat us as kids, has major narcissistic traits.

No Libra Moon would admit anything of the self, they are social climbers, they are not actually emotional people in the true sense, closer to Saturn than the Moon.

Look anywhere online where it speaks critically of Libra placements and you will find fake people defending this placement, it is the only placement which gets such a massive defence force.

My father was meant to see a psychiatrist which was a letter, he said my mum was full of bullshit and that everyone was out to set him up...

11 » 11 So despite the eerie feeling (reminder to always trust your intuition) I decided to meet the Hasta Sun, Moon guy.
Another thing - hasta being best at smooth talking, he was able to convince me, since it’s very rare I go on dates.

We agreed on time, but he didn’t say anything for the whole day, only shortly before announced, that he is on the way and that he will be 15 min late.
Date was awkward, he complimented, charmed, flirted, didn’t talk much too, was overall nice, so I agreed to the 2nd date. He used tricks - said if I’ll meet him, he will have more knowledge about astrology than me by the next day.. (He has leo mars, so wanted to impress too I guess)
I said it’s not possible, but was intrigued. Following day he told me he spent whole night studying. Learned about planets, 12 zodiacs, houses, 4 elements, modes.. he added that he didn’t like it much.

We agreed on time. Again. No msg from him. Only 20 min before the meeting he announced that he will be 2 hours late.
At that point I was like nope (cause this was a pattern now). I told it’s disrespectful and there will be no meeting.
He insisted, begged... said, that he will be there and will wait 3 hours for me to show up.
I didn’t.. he felt (acted) devastated. Told me I was the one, and he can’t let me go that easily. (this was very off putting, he called me his soulmate like 5 times during these few days of communication).


Then he didn’t msg anything for 3 days, so I asked, if he’s ok.
He told me then, it’s good that we didn’t meet, cause next day he has met some other woman, who is so much better and started insulting me in lame ways. Suddenly I wasn’t his dream girl, but I was manipulator, who needs a doctor.

So this is the most recent experience I have with a hasta guy.

Sae » 11 I checked my list with birth date of people who show toxic behavior you wrote, I list them below:

Woman:
Sun conj Mercury in Pisces, stellum Moon-Lilith-Pluto in Scorpio
Sun conj Mercury in Aquarius, Moon in Aries
Sun-Mercury-Jupiter in Virgo, Moon in Pisces - she is an extremely narcissistic
Sun in Libra, Moon in Capricorn
Stellum Mercury, Sun in Libra and Jupiter in Virgo, Moon in Virgo
Sun conj Mercury in Pisces, Moon in Saggitarius - she is very agressive and violent also
Sun conj Lilith in Capricorn, Moon in Cancer

Men:
Sun in Libra, Moon in Capricorn


I know one sociopath. She consciously destroyed the lives of several dozen people, a pathological liar, a thief, a manipulator of the highest class, loves no one, but if you met her, you would say that she is the sweetest person in the world. You would become friends with her and then you would become her background for cheating other people (you would not know anything about it), unless you had a lot of money - then you would be her target. It took me several years to see her real face and I am afraid of her to this day. She destroyed my life twice.
Mooj conj Saturn in Taurus, stellum Lilith-Sun-Mars in Leo, Mercury conj Pluto in Virgo.


As you can see, different Moons, different Suns, but it cannot be clearly said that only one sign of the zodiac is toxic, and especially one Moon in particular. Check the entire chart and look for other aspects that might make someone toxic.

Another thing is that despite my experiences with the Lunar Taurus, Pisces, Virgo I CANNOT say that all the Lunar Taurus, Pisces and Virgos are bad. It is only me who met such people and I do not generalize all of them, because it can be very harmful for the rest of people with such Moons. Ans look, I´ve met toxic women more often, but I can´t tell that all women are bad.

At the end I want to say that sometimes life is not all roses. I know these people and their sad stories. I know and understand that they are sick in some way, because the experiences given to them by other people (mainly parents) have distorted their perception of reality. The harm is passed down from generation to generation and it takes a lot of mental strength and many years to understand this, but not everyone will be able to break free.

hermitfaerie » 11 11 is named such simply because that was the number assigned to her in the institution she was held prisoner and experimented on.

Sae » 11 The traits that you mention don´t belong to the lunar Libra, but to the narcissistic personality.

And please answer my question - do you know a sociopath?

hermitfaerie » 11 I have known a legitimate sociopath, maybe even psychopath, but their moon was either in Aquarius or Pisces (not sure of exact birth time or place)

11 » 11 Try going for them crying to receive some empathy.. you will get their cold shoulder and facts, very possible they will act like a judge and mention some unnecessary comment, how it’s your own fault. (I know, cause I do that too.. only people who appreciate this attitude, is other air signs but water element will be broken hearted, cause they only wanted to vent and cry, not to receive some stupid comments they already know)
they most probably will judge you more now, cause they saw, how vulnerable you can be in a weak moment. And will say YUCK how ugly (not loudly)

Sae » 11 The Moon in Libra wants to be appreciated socially, so can adopts a dominant attitude and is charming in conversation, which also often goes with arrogance, but now everyone act like that. I know lunar Libra (women and men), some of them can talk to people and attract attention, while the rest of them are typical introverts who are calm and sometimes nervous. The Moon says little, other aspects are needed that will make a person likely to be toxic in some way.

And I would like to understand your point of view - Have you ever met a sociopath?

Spork234 » 11 I have a Libra moon, but I also have Libra in Mercury, Mars and Jupiter - I wouldn´t say I was a sociopath.

I would look at other aspects in the chart - they might have squares and opposites with the moon. Mine is conjunct with my Sun (in Virgo), so I think it does balance me out a bit.

11 » 11 “ The word "HASTA" can mean mentally ill in Turkish. I think I got confused there while translating. ”

.. some new knowledge I just found out

11 » 11 In past few days 4 Hasta moon guys have reached out to me, not related to this post

Patterns in general is a Libra thing isn’t..